 Poster: A snowHead
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Having just got back from a fantastic week in adelboden, with pants weather/vis but brilliant fresh snow nearly every day, i would like to add my 2 penny's worth to a recent conversation on the dangers of snowboarders and skiers sharing the same slopes.
I have worked on various mountains teaching skiing over the years, and have to admit, that about ten years ago it became apparent that a new 'danger' was on the slopes. This being snowboarders, who, in general had little tuition to get them familiar with the mountain FIS rules etc, also their turn shape, the fact that snowboarders in general ride in packs so come down the hill in 'clumps, and finally, if and when they fall/collide, the board hits the 'victim' side on, generally affecting the hips area.
I have had several friends taken out for a season(or 2!) by such accidents.
However....
That was 5 to 10 years ago, and I think it is a really out of date argument. These days snowboarders are aware of the FIS mountain safety codes, their turn shape is similar to many new skis, and generally thier speed is much lower than that of a power carver honking it down a piste.
And this is my point. Last week we had poor visibility for all but one day, when the sun came out and so did the crowds.
And I was really shocked by the general speed and aggressive skiing nature of most of the skiing 'onpiste'.
Adelboden is a resort with mainly good to very good skiers on it, mainly local swiss people/germans or good level dutch.
Carving skis have enabled intermediate level skiers to really 'rip' down a hill, and luckily we were happy to remain off piste as on it you really had to keep your wits about you in fear of some big lump crashing ito you at herman speeds. Another thing that has added to this is that most people now wear helmets, and this adds to the 'invincibility' feel of the skier,.
Sorry for the rant, but its the first time I have really noticed this, and it has now made the 'snowboarders are dangerous' argument irrelevant.
Ps Adelboden fantastic for fresh tracks, empty off piste and introduction to all mountain skiing.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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We anticipate being over-run with eejits of this nature from now until the end of the holidays. I think I may do more swimming than skiing until they all bog off home in March. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There have been a lot of threads like this. Admittedly I always ski in less busy weeks so that might explain why my experience of this is generally different.
As a rule I find that:
• People skiing very fast on piste are normally pretty good and able to plan a route down without interfering with anyone else on the piste. Last minute changes of direction don't pose much of a problem to this level of skier either.
• Helmet use is mainly children, some beginners and the off-piste crew. Still fairly rare among holiday piste bimblers and more likely to be snowboarders than skiers.
• Newer shaped skis seem slower to me than the old long skinny things we had in the 80s. They turn quicker, but don't feel as if they move over the snow any faster.
• Ski resorts and pistes seem a lot quieter to me than my youthful memories from the 80s. The busiest skiing I've ever witnessed by far has been UK indoor slopes.
I've yet to witness an on-piste collision and it's definitely not something I'm worried about at present. Reading some of these threads I feel I ought to be, but when I get out there, it all feels a bit illogical.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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queen bodecia, if you're not seeing it in the pleces where you ski, I wouldn't worry about it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Lizzard, that's my feeling. If I ever go to Tignes at half term (extremely unlikely), I may modify my view.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
There have been a lot of threads like this. Admittedly I always ski in less busy weeks so that might explain why my experience of this is generally different.
As a rule I find that:
• People skiing very fast on piste are normally pretty good and able to plan a route down without interfering with anyone else on the piste. Last minute changes of direction don't pose much of a problem to this level of skier either.
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"Normally" maybe. But it doesn't take many "abnormal" to be a problem. As so often in life, it is the irresponsible minority who cause most of the problems.
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• Helmet use is mainly children, some beginners and the off-piste crew. Still fairly rare among holiday piste bimblers and more likely to be snowboarders than skiers.
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Possibly true in France (where I believe you have skied the last couple of years), definitely not true in Austria. I reckon somewhere in the region of 80% have been wearing helmets on my last couple of trips.
But I am not convinced of the "feeling invincible" argument against them. From personal experience, I have been wearing a helmet on my last two trips, but those are also the only two trips where I have gone through the entire week without even a minor injury - and since none of my previous injuries have been to the head, that cannot be the effect of any direct protection from the helmet.
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• Newer shaped skis seem slower to me than the old long skinny things we had in the 80s. They turn quicker, but don't feel as if they move over the snow any faster.
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It isn't that the skis are inherently faster, it is more that they allow people to ski with more apparent control earlier in their learning curve - which means they tend to go faster. But because many of such people haven't got the experience taht would previously have been required, they also haven't developed the technique to be able to react quickly and correctly when things start going wrong.
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• Ski resorts and pistes seem a lot quieter to me than my youthful memories from the 80s. The busiest skiing I've ever witnessed by far has been UK indoor slopes.
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That I wouldn't know about. My first ever ski trip was in 1996, and I have never skied at a busy time.
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I've yet to witness an on-piste collision and it's definitely not something I'm worried about at present. Reading some of these threads I feel I ought to be, but when I get out there, it all feels a bit illogical. |
I've seen quite a few minor collisions, but have never yet seen one hard enough to result in injury.
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Youve never witnessed a collision? That seems strange. I have directly seen or at least witnessed the aftermath of several. And I dont ski a huge amount.
I think that no matter what the rules are, what the equipment can do, there will always be people going too fast.
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t-humphreys, doesn't seem that strange to me - I've seen very few and I've been doing this for about 15 seasons.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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alex_heney, haven't been skiing in France for donkeys years. My most recent trips have been Passo Tonale March 2006, Kitzbuhel March 2008, Courmayeur March 2009. Helmet use was probably slightly higher in Kitz, but still only around 20% on piste I reckon.
I agree with the point that people seem to have less instruction these days. Maybe it's the cost factor, the average skiing holiday is pretty pricey even without the cost of lessons. I've definitely seem far more examples of out of control lunacy at UK indoor slopes though.
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This is a good argument for the anti-helmet brigade
The use of a helmet and body armor for some will give them a certain ammount of invincibility and they are more likely to continue being reckless and out of control as they survive more falls.
Also, What I see alot of is fast skiers looking totally in control but forgetting or not knowing simple "Rules"
Examples
Fast skiing down a wide clear piste but either continuing at speed or at the wrong side of a piste when it merges or intersects with others - Not knowing dangers introduced by terrain or general piste layout
Most good to expert skiers are good when the conditions are the same as say a 2 lane dual carrigeway where they are overtaking 1 slower skier but again I see the equivilant of 8 lane motorways with people swapping lanes and undertaking. Slow skier gets overtaken 1st time and swaps direction leaving 2nd overtaker with the last min change of direction and 3rd / 4th etc will take out any one of many
Fast skiers should not only take note of downhill and side to side but have a general awareness of what is behind them and not leave it to someone with no brains to abide by the piste code. By this I mean when skiing fast and in control remain predictable. if you are carving a 10 meter wide track do not throw a random 30m carve across the slope because you feel like it. It is the responsibility of the uphill skier but give them a chance. If you decide to change to full width carving take note of anyone behind who you may intersect with.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Alternatively, just stop whizzing about like a wasp with its bum on fire. No-one's impressed, really. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I started wearing a helmet about a year ago and I'm not sure I feel safer or more reckless than before I had one - although now I'm used to wearing one I feel vulnerable without it. Funny that.
There don't seem to be many 'rules of the road' for skiing compared with sports such as windsurfing where people are doing similar, often slower speeds. I don't think this is a bad thing, but it does mean that you need to think a bit as deahwons says.
still think snowboarders are worse  or are snowbladers the new menaces? (i was one for a couple of years!)
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| Alternatively, just stop whizzing about like a wasp with its bum on fire. No-one's impressed, really. |
Do you ski or board to impress other people? What a peculiar notion!
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You know it makes sense.
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rob@rar, I fear that if I did I would fail miserably.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Definitely think bladers are now the most dangerous thing on the piste- thankfully to themselves tho
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Poster: A snowHead
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People can definitely zone out when carving fast, and many will be letting the ski dictate the shape of the turn and / or crossing the whole piste. The skier below may have priority, but skiers need to be taught to take a quick glance up the slope before turning when doing such huge turns. This is something I do myself and it's now second nature. My helmet does not inhibit my vision.
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