 Poster: A snowHead
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I never notice anyone smoking ciggarettes on the slopes in Canada. The odd joint, but that is all.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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As a licensee I can't wait for the ban on smoking in bars (that serve food) and restaurants to come into force in 2008, (In England and Wales).
The majority of my colleagues are of the same opinion. IF this Government had the will to bring in a total ban a la Ireland New York etc (BTW hows the ban going in Italy?) the individuals in the trade would whole heartdly support it, the big brewers, pub companies and other vested interests would protest but provided the playing field was level would soon knuckle down!
Personally I believe in choice and if a person wants to gas themselves with carcinogenic smoke that is their choice BUT I want he choice not to share it with them!
A point of interest Le Pub Ski Lodge in La Tania was voted Best Bar in a wintersports vote. (Beating lots of other more obvious places) This bar has during the previous summer spent a fortune on a new roof and built in extraction for cigarette smoke. If the demand is there owners have the motivation to do something about passive smoking!
SCGB: Those ex-members here will be interested/not surprised to know that I complained to the SCGB about their reps always meeting in smoke filled bars and thus how could my children meet the rep. To date I have not received a response!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| carled wrote: |
| Yes, I suppose it is intolerance, but not in a negative way as you seem to imply. It is a case of standing up for non-smokers' rights NOT to inhale second hand smoke. |
Of course it's negative. Non-smokers have every right not to inhale second smoke but the outright ban you advocate is hardly required for that.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I hate smoking to. I hate smokers attitude to littering ( have you ever seen a smoker take his cigarette butt home with them).
Even here in the Smoking captial of the World >> Holland !
Here in Holland they were going to bring in a Smoking Ban in all Public areas including the Bars & Cafes .This too was a employee related health law.
However, the goverment chickened out after the Hotel Restuarant Catering (HORECA) Branch said it would cost a minumum 50000 jobs plus all the Coffee (HASH)Shops would have to close down. The law was not suppose to effect them but it would but some people think its a backdoor way of closing them down. The goverment does not like the bad image Holland gets on its POT laws.
Anyway they bought in the Public Place ban in 1st Jan last year ie in Offices,Railways,Airports etc. They have sited these silly smoking posts where you can only stand at arms length from the post to smoke.
What really pisses me off is that they have sited these posts right on the doors of Stations where everyone has to walk through. If anyone comes to Schiphol you will see them a the bottom of the escalators where everypne has to passby. Also in the Airport you can still smoke in the cafes which is where you least want to smell smoke .
The upshot/trade off is that the smoking ban will come into force. All businesses have to prepare for it by 2007. It will come into force Jan 1st 2009 but I think it will be sooner if other countires speed up. So anyone thinking of coming to Holland for a few spliffs come now as the party will soon be over 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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boredsurfin, Wetherspoons have announced that their bars will be smoke free, without waiting for government action, citing customer preference.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
Of course it's negative. Non-smokers have every right not to inhale second smoke but the outright ban you advocate is hardly required for that.
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How do you work that one out? As long as smoking is allowed in public places, people who do not want to smoke or smell second hand smoke will be forced to do so against their wishes. How else, therefore, can we stop this apart from banning it in public places altogether?
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This forum seems to have drifted a bit from the original theme - smoking on/near the piste. Some early posters about smokers on lifts or in queues really struck a chord with me (esp. the ESF instructors with their roll-ups and slope-side p£$%ing). But my bug-bear above all is the littering mentioned above. Cigarette butts take 5yrs on average to bio-degrade. Kramer, I think that you are exceptional in taking yours down off the slopes. It is a shame that piste patrollers (if any) do not take lift passes away for littering - in France it's probably the patrollers who are stood at the side of the slope smoking themselves! 
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This forum seems to have drifted a bit from the original theme
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Don't think it's drifted too far. The main point behind this isn't specifically banning it on pistes, rather ANYWHERE in public where people who don't want to smell it will be affected.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Can somebody setup a poll to find out what the general snowheads concensus is on this matter? I think we all know which way it will go, given that snowsports people are generally a heatlhy bunch.
My view is that smoking should be allowed everywhere. Everywhere as long as the smokers are locked in a non ventilated portaloo sized room and made to inhale every last cubic foot of contaminated air - maybe there's a business opportunity here...
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| carled wrote: |
| Quote: |
Of course it's negative. Non-smokers have every right not to inhale second smoke but the outright ban you advocate is hardly required for that.
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How do you work that one out? As long as smoking is allowed in public places, people who do not want to smoke or smell second hand smoke will be forced to do so against their wishes. How else, therefore, can we stop this apart from banning it in public places altogether? |
So now you want a ban in public places not an outright ban?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Can somebody setup a poll to find out what the general snowheads concensus is on this matter? I think we all know which way it will go, given that snowsports people are generally a heatlhy bunch.
My view is that smoking should be allowed everywhere. Everywhere as long as the smokers are locked in a non ventilated portaloo sized room and made to inhale every last cubic foot of contaminated air - maybe there's a business opportunity here...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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A pub near us has relegated smokers to an outside (heated and covered terrace). I don't know how it's affected trade, but when I went there the other day (because it's smoke free) it was pretty full. I think that smoking in pubs and restaurants is one of the few things best left to market forces. However, it will take more than a smoking ban to get me into a Wetherspoons pub. The name's enough to put you off, never mind the food and the decor.
I was in Austria a couple of weeks ago, where smoking appears to be compulsory for all over 15. They must use decent air cleaning /replacement systems, as the smoke usually bothered me much less, even when we were sharing a dinner table with a smoker (although I could have lived without it). Smoking is banned on chair lifts in Kitzbuhel, I assume because of dropped fag ends rather than because of the smoke. I don't remember seeing anyone smoking on a lift. By extension of this logic, smoking should be banned on pistes. As an ex smoker, I'm not sure that smoking while skiing is a practical proposition. I used to enjoy a smoke on a chair lift, but not on the piste.
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| Quote: |
So now you want a ban in public places not an outright ban?
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Of course - that was always my meaning. I'm not a complete nazi! I can, however, see that my original post could be read as advocating an outright ban - which I'd love - but I'm realistic enough to realise it won't happen. If people want to smoke in their own houses then fine. If people want to smoke in their cars, then fine too... just stop throwing your flipping fag ends out of the car window you oiks!
Sorry for the confusion - can now understand your reaction a bit better! 
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You know it makes sense.
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I think im write on this one.
Smoking is not allowed on lifts in Austria ? I know people ignore but thats the general rule. When someone trys to spark up on the same lift as me I allways object & tell them its forbidden. If they persist (normally not) I just tell the liftman (whos generally a smoker) at the top. OK nothing happens but I done my bit !
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I have the odd one or two, but I hate smoky bars - does that make me a hippocrite?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Inga, that depends where you do your smoking!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Inga, I think a hippocrite is probably something to do with horses, so I doubt it. Neither are you a hypocrite; tolerating things to a certain level but no further is not hypocrisy. If all smokers only smoked the odd one or two, bars would be a lot less smoky.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
| If all smokers only smoked the odd one or two, bars would be a lot less smoky |
Smokers are dirty,smelly & ignorant , its simple.
The houses they live in
The clothes they wear ( I really hate this one, getting on a bus & train and a smelly smoker sits next to you)
Woman tryng to disguise the smell with perfumes , if only they knew !
Compulsive Litterers ( I hate to think how much of my taxes are wasted on picking up there shite)
Oblivious to the effects there habbit has on NORMAL people .
Nonchalant disreguard to there own health and belief that they wont succumb to problematic health problems when the evidence is overwhelmingly stacked-up in there faces.
Probably dont give a Shite when you say what has more priority for a hospital staff "a diseased smoker or a new born child"
It has to be Said.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Blimey... and some people think I'm radical... 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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[quote="stanton"]
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Compulsive Litterers ( I hate to think how much of my taxes are wasted on picking up there shite)
Nonchalant disreguard to there own health and belief that they wont succumb to problematic health problems when the evidence is overwhelmingly stacked-up in there faces.
Probably dont give a Shite when you say what has more priority for a hospital staff "a diseased smoker or a new born child" |
What a lot of woolly, touchy feely, judgemental, patronising hogwash.
I hate to think how much of my taxes are spent on looking after long lived non smokers (like I'll be one day, I hope).
Why do you think that smokers imagine that they won't succumb to health problems? It may be that they weigh up the pros and cons and decide that they prefer to smoke.
Why should a new born child, in whom society has made almost no investment, be considered more worthy of care than a smoker who may represent a big investment by society and who, by appropriate treatment, may be able to repay some of that? New born babies are ten a penny; educated, trained adults are not. Anyway, what the hell has it got to do with hospital staff? They're paid to treat people, not to make spurious judgements about their 'worth'.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Just having a little break for a coffee and a fag, and find this to be a right riviting read. keep it up 
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richmond
Plain speaking hurts sometimes.
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Why do you think that smokers imagine that they won't succumb to health problems? It may be that they weigh up the pros and cons and decide that they prefer to smoke.
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Your paying your goverment to look after your health. That is there primarly responsibility to make decisions & inform you.
Your goverment tells/advises you that its Very dangerous to smoke , so why do it , I dont understand believe you me im trying ?
If you see a warning sign in a lake not to swim there because its dangerous, do you jump in ??
If you made the CORRECT choice above then the following doesnt come into the equation.
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| Why should a new born child, in whom society has made almost no investment, be considered more worthy of care than a smoker who may represent a big investment by society and who, by appropriate treatment, may be able to repay some of that? New born babies are ten a penny; educated, trained adults are not. Anyway, what the hell has it got to do with hospital staff? They're paid to treat people, not to make spurious judgements about their 'worth'. |
I dont have a lot of time for smokers, sorry. The argument is one sided ie; Your wrong im right & if you think im wrong im right anyway.
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stanton, plain speaking does not hurt me, at least not on this occasion, if only because I'm not a smoker. The fact remians that the points which I highlighted from your previous post do not stand up to examination, which is presumably why you have not attempted to rebut my arguments.
It is perfectly reasonable, indeed normal, for people to do something which they know to be dangerous if there is a reason for doing it which outweighs the danger. Almost everybody exposes themselves to unnecessary danger from time to time; skiers, for example. I have no doubt that for me, the pleasure of smoking does not outweigh the dangers and other downsides, but other people feel differently. There's nothing hard to understand about it.
You don't have a lot of time for smokers. Fair enough, but what has that got to do with whether or not they should be treated in hospital (whether or not in preference to a notional newly born child)? We don't treat people in hospital because we like them, for God's sake, otherwise hospitals would be almost empty, but because there are economic and moral imperatives to do so.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
but what has that got to do with whether or not they should be treated in hospital
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If you smoke your likely hood of contracting some smoking related disease is HIGH therefore requiring expensive medical/hospital attention.
If you do not smoke your likely hood of contracting some smoking related disease is LOW therefore requiring mimimal medical/hospital attention.
Smokers are an expensive burden on society. This is entirely preventible. Come to a hospital in Holland & you will see wards & wards of lung cancer patients in every hospital & people who need kidney transplants cannot get seen to because the hospital cannot afford the equipment .
Next time you walk down your local street perhaps you can clean up a few of the cigarette butts on behalf of the smokers,I know for sure they wont.
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There's nothing hard to understand about it.
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I think it must be in the Genes. I never started smoking, never wanted to , never would.
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Ken Lingwood,
LOL!!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Stanton - it's liklihood not likely hood - your views are outdated and lacking in acceptance
Sorry about the hippocrite/hypocrite I was trying to be funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Inga, er, we'll be kind and call yours a typo!
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stanton, look, it's not complicated.
The jury is out (to be generous to you) on the question of whether or not smokers are an economic burden on society compared with non-smokers. It's not so much the tobacco tax that smokers pay (tax of one sort or another would be paid eventually on a large part of that money whatever they spent it on), it's the cost of caring for infirm but long lived old timers (bless 'em). There is significant opinion that smokers save the country more money by dying relatively early than they cost by being ill a lot. We should perhaps be encouraging people to do things which increase their chance of relatively early death (ideally after the end of their economic utility and before they become a major burden on the state).
Smokers should not drop their litter (nor should anyone else), but the cost of clearing it up may well be met by the saving in old age care. I am pleased to see that a number of places (Austrian ski resorts and Green Island on the Great Barrier Reef to name two) are discouraging smokers from smoking even outdoors and/or encouraging them to take their fag ends away with them.
As a skier, you should be able to understand peoples' willingness to take risks with their health in exchange for enjoyment.
The only justification for restricting peoples' freedom to smoke is that it inconveniences or harms others. In some cases, the inconvenience or harm can be removed or greatly reduced (see my comments on Austrian restaurants), in others, 'market forces' (useless for most purposes) could be relied on to encourage non smoking pubs, restaurants and so on to flourish if there is sufficent demand for them. Sometimes, such as on public transport, a ban on smoking is probably the only realisitic option.
Whether or not you have a genetic indisposition to becoming a smoker, you should not try to justify a prejudice with ill thought out and incorrect argument. Have your prejudice if you wish (prejudice is one of the few pleasures left to people of my age and means), but recognise it for what it is.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Mon 28-02-05 18:00; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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As I said in an earlier post,beware the 'holier than thou' attitude.Fanatical views,generally,are not welcomed by the majority?
There are many pastimes which are a matter of personal choice,its the impact on others that 'really' matters.Smoking,like drinking,is a matter of personal choice.I do not drink;should I therefor call for a total ban,and a curse on all drinkers  I could cite its effect on society,anti-social behaviour,ill health,drunk driving,A & E on a friday night,climbing death rate,cost to the country etc.Binge drinking is rapidly becoming the modern social cancer?The way forward,as with smoking,is effective control and tolerant legislation.
On the other hand,we could ship em all off to a desert island;and let them smoke & drink themselves to death
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Poster: A snowHead
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| JT wrote: |
Fruity,
Excellent..!!
Did it make any difference to your skiing...?? |
LOL, I will let you know on the 14th. We are off to Lapland on Sunday............... smoke free!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Fruity, I believe that smoked reindeer is something of a delicacy in Lapland, so beware.
I'd have thought that it was pretty tricky to smoke a reindeer, but perhaps you break the antlers off before you light it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You have to smoke the antlers to break them.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| snowskisnow wrote: |
| On the other hand,we could ship em all off to a desert island |
We did that 200 years ago: it ended in tears; they beat us at cricket.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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richmond,
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We should perhaps be encouraging people to do things which increase their chance of relatively early death
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Come to Holland, they are just discussing this in Parliament. Basically extending the Euthanasia laws to allow anyone who is fed up with life to go down the clinic and terminate 
snowskisnow,
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I could cite its effect on society,anti-social behaviour,ill health,drunk driving,A & E on a friday night,climbing death rate,cost to the country etc.Binge drinking is rapidly becoming the modern social cancer?
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This is a peculiarly British problem. DEAL with it there DONT EXPORT it.
I also hardly drink however; I do not accept the tiresome drinking & smoking comparison argument. I do not see how someone on the next table in a bar having a beer or glass of wine directly affects my health and then requires me to take my clothes to the laundry ?
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| skanky wrote: |
| You have to smoke the antlers to break them. |
You saw that on the telly last night!
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Nick L, I've seen pictures of the piles of cigarette butts after the spring thaw.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Kramer wrote: |
| Nick L, I've seen pictures of the piles of cigarette butts after the spring thaw. |
They're having a bit of a campaign about this is some stations, in the Gd Massif they're encouraging people to buy little tin for a couple of euro's to put the stubs in.
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I find you highly offensive Stanton
To even suggest that I am retarded from being a "smoker" is disgusting.....I do smoke from time to time but I am definitely not the kind of smoker who is always chuffing away on a fag and dropping them all over the place...i have a quiet fag a couple of times a day and am a very fit and responsible person thank you very much
I also work for the hospital so I give my bit for the welfare of others and never have I seen anyone taking up beds in the manner you mentioned above.
AND YOU DUTCH ARE FINE ONES TO TALK - YOU ADVOCATE SMOKING DOPE WHICH CAN CAUSE SCHIZOPHRENIA AND IS FAR MORE DANGEROUS IN MANY WAYS - I'LL GIVE YOU EXAMPLES IF YOU REALLY WANT
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FAQ
