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Cigarette smoke in the clean mountain air

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I love the clean clear smell of mountain air, summer or winter. In the autumn, after it's rained, sun now shining through the hues of red and orange, the smell in a forest, but particularly in the mountains is intoxicating. Then you get a whiff of smoke from someone's fag.....

Is this something we should reasonably try to do something about, or do we have to accept it at our current state of social evolution?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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smoking causes cancer. so people quit now before you die.
i hate smoking, full stop. everyone knows it's bad, but their attitudes makes it hard for them to quit.
just smelling those smokes on the street pisses me off.
come on guys, quit already
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Mad Pet hate 1. ESF teachers who get on a chairlift beside me build a roll up 'fag', light it and blow smoke at me. Are they expecting a round of applause perhaps?
Mad Pet hate 2. Lunchtime restaurants full of smoke. The junkies can all smoke themselves to death it's their choice, I do not feel the need to join them, but feel a bit sorry for the restauranters who watch me turn and walk out not really comprehending why.
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snowbunny wrote:
:x Pet hate 1. ESF teachers who get on a chairlift beside me build a roll up 'fag', light it and blow smoke at me. Are they expecting a round of applause perhaps?.


ESF teachers that have a wee wee while queuing for a lift, dribble on their boots then get on the chair besides me :shock:
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Also the number of fag ends left behind under the lifts at the end of the season is not exactly enviromentaly friendly
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Totaly agree it cant abide it , part of the enjoyment of a skiing holiday is the mountain fresh air ,only to be poluted by smokers , even when you are on the chairlift with someone smoking 2 or 3 chairs ahead it blows back at you Mad .
I am not saying it should be banned but i think it is an activity which should only take place under water Very Happy
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I was once playing a game of rugby at university and there was some idiot smoking on the side line, this made me somewhat cross so i told them where to 'shuv' it!! Breathing in smoke when your on the street is bad enougth let alone when your exercising, its the same on the slopes and especially at altitude!!
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I skied in Italy and Banff this year and had a walking holiday in Ireland last year, all places where they have banned smoking in public and the sooner we have this in the UK the better (although it needs to be a full ban not the watered down proposal currently suggested by the fence sitter).
To go for a meal or a night out without having to smoke other peoples second hand carcinogens was a real pleasure with the added benefit of clothes that don't stink at the end of the night (a particular concern when on a skiing trip as putting on a polluted ski jacket in the morning is a real downer).
I know there is concern over civil liberties but it benefits everyone including smokers as they are encouraged to smoke less.
The last time I went to Banff the amount of smoking in restuarants and the lack of consideration really teed me off by the end of my trip so this year I was interested to see the results of the ban and made the effort to talk to some of the smokers.
Yes there were people who were upset but the majority after initial resentment felt that it was beneficial as they had cut down on their smoking and even smokers know that it kills you.
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Can't agree more with this thread.

Smoking is an anti social behaviour.

I have had 2 very good ski holidays in France spoilt by the constant inhalation of cigerette smoke during the evening sat at the bar. The last hotel didn't even have a non smoking area where you could go and sit out of the way.

I thought that France had brought in a law banning smoking in Bars and Restuarants.

I don't want this to sound as just knocking the French but in my experience this is the worst country for breathing in passive cigerette smoke.
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Funnily enough the only two people who were nearly constantly smoking at the hotel I was staying at in Switzerland were ...... Parisians !
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A small mountain restaurant we were in in Serre Chevalier, is smoke-free, a pleasant rarity. In the Summer when we stayed in Chambre d'Hote, all the smokers went outside after dinner, even the owner. The guests who smoked were Parisiens, and all women, none of the men smoked.
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Super Eagle wrote:
I thought that France had brought in a law banning smoking in Bars and Restuarants.


bwaahahahahahahaha.

The famous Loi Evin which bans smoking in public places.
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People smoking in wide open spaces doesnt really bother me, its the enclosed spaces with inconsiderate smokers that really annoy me! My hair still reeks of smoke from last night, even after ive washed it! - Nasty! Mad
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Totally agree with the sentiments here. Can't abide it and I don't see why I must be forced to inhale other peoples cigarette smoke
especially indoors. It ok for people to say its their choice to smoke but what about my choice. With passive smoke I don't get one..!!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
and passive smoke causes more harm then inhaling first hand smoke.
because passive smoke is all the left over junk (not that there's anything good in the first place) from the person's lungs.

dont know why people smoke...
bad teeth, smelly fingers, smelly clothes, extremely not attractive...
esp women. nothing worse than a woman lighting up a cigeratte.
gosh all those good looking women on the street, spoiled cause they decided to smoke.
sigh... Sad
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Take away their lift passes Very Happy
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I know that this is going to be quite an unpopular opinion, but I quite enjoy a cigarette on a chairlift. I would only ever smoke if I was on one with people I know, and I always carry my butts down the mountain with me, which does make my ski jacket smell a bit, but I do enjoy it. At lunch or in the evening, I always go outside to smoke, I think that it's only good manners. I don't think that it's smoking per se that's the problem, more peoples bad manners.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I can proudly announce that i packed in the evil habit, on 28th Dec and havent had one since. I am a bit chuffed, considering I havent had any external help, no gum, no patches and I didnt tell a soul until they themselves noticed......... (I have smoked for 23yrs so this is some feat for me!)


Shock
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Fruity, well done. I'm semi-retired, I don't smoke at home, only when I'm on a skiing holiday. Probably because of all the second hand smoke that I inhale.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Kramer,

I thought you were in medicine or had a medical background and if so I'm surprised you smoke!

Don't get me wrong I wouldn't fall out with friends over it but if they banned it...ha! I wouldn't miss it..

I always regard a trip to the mountains and the clean air as cleansing my lungs, is it tax deductable..?
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Fruity,

Excellent..!!

Did it make any difference to your skiing...??
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Fruity,very well done.Really do wish I could do the same Sad
I find myself with Kramer on this.I consider myself a responsible(?)smoker.Never in restaurants,houses,peoples faces etc.I would welcome any public place ban as no one has the 'right' to inflict themselves on others.However,beware the 'holier than thou' attitude.There are many pastimes that are a matter of personal choice.Whether they are anti social,or not,very much depends on how you carry them out Confused
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JT, I am a doctor and I do smoke on occasion. Having a medical degree does not indemnify one from personal stupidity. I would not recommend starting to anyone, and I'm in favour of a ban on smoking indoors in public places, after all this is what I do already. However, if I am going to have a cigarette, then short of being in bed with Kelly Brook, then on the slopes would be my favourite place to do it. I can't justify it, it's just that having a fag in mountains is a very satisfying experience.
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Kramer wrote:
I always carry my butts down the mountain with me

My butt's carrying me down the mountain half the time.
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Kramer,

Quote:

I always carry my butts down the mountain with me


I only have one butt to carry down the mountain with me, but I'm often told have a lot of cheek. wink
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I gave up smoking at about 2:00 AM on News Year Day.

Before I gave up I smoked an average of about 3 a day, hardly ever smoked during the day and didn't smoke for a couple of days each week (so on occasions smoked more than 3, hence average).

Before giving up I was in the habit of leaving restaurants to smoke rather than subject my fellow diners to the smell and smoke of my gitanes sans filtre.

Now an ex (hopefully) smoker I prefer that others do not smoke but accept that some find it difficult not to. My attitide to France being the worst place is - Well don't go there then!

Two of my personal hates are smokers who smoke in places where there are signs suggesting they should not or are not allowed. And two, non smokers who complain about smokers smoking in places reserved for smoking.

Doh! springs to mind
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Kramer, Right on.

B00thy, "Two of my personal hates are smokers who smoke in places where there are signs suggesting they should not or are not allowed. And two, non smokers who complain about smokers smoking in places reserved for smoking. " Absolutely.

Well sorry folks - I smoke, less than I used to and cutting down gradually, but I do object to people objecting to it in places where it's allowed. If we still had proper snugs in bars it'd be easy to have a smoking room and a non smoking room. All the "trendies" made our pubs one room so now everyone's pi**ed off! I personally object to being made to feel obliged to freeze to death to have a cig. There are plenty of non smoking places for non smokers to go. France is one of the freeest countries in the world - long may it stay like that.

Having said all that I bet I'm a lot fitter than most other Snowheads, even though I smoke!
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Quote:

France is one of the freeest countries in the world - long may it stay like that.

Easiski,I'll second that.
Quote:

I bet I'm a lot fitter than most other Snowheads, even though I smoke!

I can vouch for that as well Embarassed
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
easiski,

Quote:

I bet I'm a lot fitter than most other Snowheads, even though I smoke!


I bet you are. But I bet you'd be a lot fitter than you are, if you didn't smoke!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
easiski, the complaint comes only because we don't get a choice. We (non-smokers) walk into a bar and are confronted by smoke. That's all there is to it! It's not like we get given any choice in the matter, is it? We can't go elsewhere because all the other bars are just the same. Do you therefore advocate that we should "feel obliged" to go outside and freeze to death to avoid the smoke? Who's causing the problem here? The people filling the place with smoke or the people who want to have a drink without inhaling the smoke?

How would you feel if after every sip of beer I had, I came over and spat some in your mouth? I'm therefore forcing MY "habit of choice" on you, without you having any say on the matter...

It's not a personal dig at you, rather smokers as a group, but you are a bloody selfish bunch, I'm afraid! Every time the debate comes up on radio 5, the phone-in is filled with aggrieved smokers complaining that their civil liberties are being infringed. Hello! What about MY civil liberties to be able to go out for a drink, meal or even a walk in the bloody park without breathing in second-hand lungfuls of smoke?

easiski, you seem, from your postings on here to be a tremendously nice person and, if my personal preference wasn't for one plank rather than two these days, I would be delighted to come under your tutelage should I find myself in Deux Alpes again, so please don't feel I'm having a go at you personally - I just see your posting as the one most relevant for me to respond to.

I'm sorry, but my opinion is the sooner they ban the filthy habit outright, the better...
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
No no doubt someone will shoot me down in flames and tell me I'm talking rubbish, but I've noticed in France, in restaurants, people normally enjoy their meal, and then light up thier fag. In Uk, everyone seems to light up between courses, and smoke 2 or more before the starter arrives. As lond as you avoid the Bar Tabac, it's not so much of a problem. Anyway, I've noticed the French seem to be smoking less than they used to.
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carled, I don't like smoky bars any more than any other non-smoker, but from a civil liberties point of view I think you'd have to say that it should be up to the licensee whether to have a smoking or non-smoking bar. The hotel I frequent in Megève went non-smoking a couple of years ago after conducting a customer survey. Admittedly it's British run for (mainly) British guests so I don't suppose it will start a big trend in that part of the world, but I could see it happening here.
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laundryman, I don't see how you can say that. The point of civil liberties is that everyone gets to choose for themselves, rather than have a rule imposed on them by the licensee or anyone else, for that matter.

The problem with smoking is that it is one of the few "habits" that globally affects anyone within range. You can't even define that range - it can be a large area sometimes and, as has been pointed out earlier, you smell cigarette smoke when standing in the middle of an apparently clear mountainside, only to see a smoker a few down yards away with the wind in an unfavourable direction.

If I had a choice within the bar whether to inhale the smoke or not, then your (and every smoker's) argument works... but I don't have that choice and therefore the only fair option is to ban it, it's as simple as that. What if I was to find emitting noxious farts to be a hugely enjoyable and relaxing experience and I chose to do it without pause in every bar I was in? I'm sure that you'd start to get some very aggrieved people in a very short space of time, but a) it's not lethal like smoking is and b) it's my civil liberty to fart like a trooper, isn't it? If a bar you went into stunk like a sick pig's sty, then I'm sure you'd vote with your feet. If EVERY bar you went into smelled like that, then you'd start to get a bit depressed about it, I'm sure.

There is ABSOLUTELY no defence against smoking. Not only is it unpleasant to the MAJORITY (lest we forget - not just a minority) of people in this country, if not the world, it is also highly dangerous, even lethal... not just to those doing it, but to those unfortunate enough to be within inhaling range.
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carled wrote:
laundryman, I don't see how you can say that. The point of civil liberties is that everyone gets to choose for themselves, rather than have a rule imposed on them by the licensee or anyone else, for that matter.


Slightly at odds with :

carled wrote:
I'm sorry, but my opinion is the sooner they ban the filthy habit outright, the better...


Which seems to confuse your reasonable points with a plain old intolerance.
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carled, I find a lot of bars play music that's louder than I want and that I consider might damage my hearing. My solution is simple: find another more conducive to my tastes or stay at home. I don't consider that I have the right to call the shots (or get the government to do it for me) in a private establishment, just my normal right to exercise free choice.

For all that, I spend a fair amount of time in pubs in Ireland and I'm happy that they're now smoke-free, so perhaps I'm being a tad hypocritical!
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laundryman, loud music doens't give you lung cancer though, or heart disease. Almost every smoker I know doesn't really want to smoke anyway, and say that they would welcome a ban as it would give them more of an incentive to stop.
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Yep - I agree it does appear to be at odds.. maybe I can elaborate a little...

I was referring to laundryman's point about the smoking choice being down to the licensee, when it should be down to the person and as just ONE person smoking in a room of non-smokers would affect them all, then there simply is no sane argument that allows for smoking if only one person DOESN'T want it. The one person NOT smoking does not affect everyone else, whereas the one person smoking does.

As I said before, smoking is almost unique in the world of personal habits (OK, the flatulence argument aside!) in that it affects everyone, not just the person doing it. I don't affect a smoker by NOT smoking, therefore they cannot affect me by smoking. It's a simple, logical point and it cannot be argued with!

Yes, I suppose it is intolerance, but not in a negative way as you seem to imply. It is a case of standing up for non-smokers' rights NOT to inhale second hand smoke.
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Helen Beaumont, crikey, I'd find lung cancer and heart disease more of a deterrent than a fifty quid fine! I honestly think that whatever the legal situation, smoking will become less and less socially acceptable, like spitting in public.
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laundryman, that's what you'd think, you don't smoke.
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Helen Beaumont, point taken!
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