 Poster: A snowHead
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OK, so here's the scenario - I can ski down most things no problem. Blue, Green, Red, with a bit of thought Black.
I'm interested in relaxing skiing, and like cruising around on blues and greens really, largely because my legs take a hammering on reds and blacks.
Not sure why, but I get a lot of pain in my thighs, burning like hell after a few hours of skiing on day one, and within the first hour from day one onwards on a trip.
I have extremely strong thighs - stronger than most people I know, previously fairly serious hockey player and have no problem doing lots of bending/stretching in what should be a stress position for thighs following warm-up, though I have been a couple of seasons away from the game now.
Previous trips I had mates who would snowboard all day, down anything, and while I had no problem keeping up, after a few hours it stopped being fun because it was painful. This was when I was playing hockey 2-3 times a week, I almost wonder if this feeling is normal, and whether it's just me being a big jessie about it, but it can't be - it hurts, and quite a lot.
My ski technique is ok, based on several years of weekly coaching as a teenager, and a lot of lessons on trips during this time. It's not the prettiest, but I enjoy sitting in the backseat, relaxing and pootling down slopes enjoying myself, sometimes quickly. I know I shouldn't, but that's what's relaxing to me.
So, here's the million dollar question - is one of those Ski Mojo things going to mean I can ski all day without burning thighs?
As an aside, I have one knee which is a bit lazy, naturally tips inwards towards the other. This is from a combination I think of an old ski injury when my knee got badly twisted, and a motorbike crash where a lot of weight got dumped on it and dragged along a road for a while. The knee never gives me any problems skiing, but when I'm really dog tired at the end of the day I have to consciously keep it straight so I don't catch an edge on the last run home.
I appreciate I can do a load of specialist exercises to work on my thighs, but actually I'm not sure it's worth it for a couple of weeks skiing a year, and also I have a trip planned in 2 weeks and have almost no chance of changing much in that time.
All help much appreciated. I'm not all that interested in the philosophy of whether these things are good for my life in general etc, more whether they can stop the thigh burn in the real world and leave me able to cruise all day without having to stop to let thighs recover. It's a lot of money, and I don't want it to be something that sits in the cupboard for the next 10 years.
If it's relevant, I ski almost exclusively on piste, and occasionally stray to edges of piste, but don't have any massive aspiration to ski at 100mph between trees or jump 20 feet out of a half pipe.
Thanks all,
Mr Monium.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Did you get your boots fitted by a professional bootfitter? Your problem seems related to bad blood circulation. Do you have any problems when doing euh, a leg press or such in the gym?
Usually, with bad-fitting boots, you buckle them way too hard to keep your heel in place, which partially cuts off the flow of blood in your legs.
I personally don't think the Ski Mojo is what you need, since it seems you have pretty good stamina, leg strength and knees.
It would probably fix the problem, or at least help a bit (I've heard good things about it), but I would only use that device if I tried the more obvious causes.
edit: I've had it happen in the past that my feet felt ok in (rental)boots, but I had to buckle them so hard (usually at the cuff) that my legs got stiff due to lack of blood. Just so you know that a good fitting boot is more than just a 'comfortable' foot. If you're willing to spend money on the Mojo, a visit to CEM would be money better spent imo.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Monium, you're probably leaning back too much. Kills the thighs. Try to get a refresher session next time you're out in the alps or come down to the SH Hemel bash and book a lesson with whoever's doing them and ask them about it.
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Could boots affect blood flow to thighs? I could understand if calves were the problem, but surely the thighs are fed from major artery inside the leg, feeling is a lot like build up of lactic acid, but really don't think boot is likely to be the issue. They fit really well.
The same issue has happened with at least two different boots - current boots fit very well, better than any other ski boot I've tried. No issues with any numbness or circulation that I can feel. Part of my relaxed style means I don't hammer the boots up too tight either, so not sure if that's a factor on this one. The other older boots I had the same issue with were a beginner boot, very soft, and not buckled up massively tight, very comfortable over a week of skiing and no feeling of cut off circulation at all.
No issues doing squats or pushing weights in the gym (though I very very rarely do any work on my legs in the gym, the kind of training we did for hockey was designed to work thighs and have to do a lot of up and down exercise in order to make tackles, pass the ball etc, so gym work really not necessary)
In the OP I may have painted a picture of a modern athlete, ready to climb the north face of the Eiger. In reality I've not been training for last season (since approx Xmas last year really) but this doesn't seem to have affected whether I have the problem.
A friend on a recent trip did say that he used to get thigh burn a bit, and cycling to and from work seemed to have fixed the issue altogether. He certainly didn't seem to have any issues skiing all day in December, but then he is generally significantly fitter than me anyhow.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Sideshow_Bob wrote: |
| Monium, you're probably leaning back too much. Kills the thighs. Try to get a refresher session next time you're out in the alps or come down to the SH Hemel bash and book a lesson with whoever's doing them and ask them about it. |
Now this I do know, I lean back plenty. It's the way I ski, and I know that isn't good technique.
The times when it can really hammer me is when we're on a long run leaning forward shussing it though - in theory when I am in the "correct" ski position. This is made infinitely worse in flat light when I need to stay loose on my legs to absorb any bumps or slush. I then end up standing up bolt upright pretty much, but then you get every little bump in the snow going right through you, and much much more likely to fall over and catch edges in my experience.
This is kind of why I feel like I need something more - I'm happy to get out of the back seat a bit and put myself in the correct position (which I can do) but that seems to be more painful than sitting back in my usual style.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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your position in your boots can affect the feeling in your thighs< if you are being pitched too far forward then you tense the quardacepts muscles and get that lactic burn pain, similarily too far back and you are trying to stay in balance
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join the darkside and board with your mates instead 
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Make sure the buckle or clip across your instep isn't too tight ! Classic reason for giving you leg aches and foot ache. Obviously keeping the top buckles to right tension. And as Sideshow Bob mentioned if you lean too far back it is a thigh killer.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Monium, Why don't you drop Frosty the Snowman a PM - I believe he is very enthusiastic about his one, he might be able to tell you some information based on his own experiences with the gadget.
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Monium, Your friend who cycles has the fix I'm sure. Skied with a group for a long time one of which played a lot of rugby and would keep skiing all day even when we took a break. I've more recently upped my cycling and found that I've improved endurance against my group significantly. been cycling with one child on my back and one on a tag-along at the same time, this makes me really work at getting up hills as you just have to get on and keep pushing. I find skiing / cycling complimentary muscle / endurance wise (somebody else may be able to offer more insight) I now find that my legs can easily perform all day skiing and I have much better fine control over the skis even at the end of a day.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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lessons not mojo for you 
It is your skiing not your knees that is causing your pain.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I used to get the same pain, until I had knee problems and Arthroscopy. My Physio spotted the problem straight away. Stong quads and naff all other leg muscles (too much cycling), so I was stabilising using the quads exclusively
Solution, Buy a wobble board inflatable cushion and practice squats (single and double footed). The unstable platform forces ALL the muscles to work to stabilise you leg. My skiing last season improved no end due to this. No leg pain and a lot more control
Would recomend this as a great exercise to all skiers
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
lessons not mojo for you
It is your skiing not your knees that is causing your pain. |
Thanks for your advice. I was all set for buying one, looking for a reason not to. Maybe I need to persevere a bit with a "ski fitness" regime.
So, next question, I go away on 10th Jan, how can I get as sorted as possible before then so I don't spend a week fighting to not be in pain?
Now have an exercise bike from the in laws, with the weather outside there's no way on earth I'm going bike riding in the dark when I get back from work!
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You know it makes sense.
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| madmole wrote: |
I used to get the same pain, until I had knee problems and Arthroscopy. My Physio spotted the problem straight away. Stong quads and naff all other leg muscles (too much cycling), so I was stabilising using the quads exclusively
Solution, Buy a wobble board inflatable cushion and practice squats (single and double footed). The unstable platform forces ALL the muscles to work to stabilise you leg. My skiing last season improved no end due to this. No leg pain and a lot more control
Would recomend this as a great exercise to all skiers |
Wii Fit wobble board and juggling? Maybe?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Monium, some lessons on getting your stance right. I used to get shocking thigh burn but this went once I learned a well balanced stance.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Frosty the Snowman, does the Mojo attempt to correct or restrict knee tracking?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Monium wrote: |
Now have an exercise bike from the in laws, with the weather outside there's no way on earth I'm going bike riding in the dark when I get back from work! |
Heh. Indoor exercise bikes are one of the boringest things on earth.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| Monium, some lessons on getting your stance right. I used to get shocking thigh burn but this went once I learned a well balanced stance. |
Interesting. I know I'm sitting back (as I kind of always have) but would never have thought this was causing the thigh burn.
Will have to see about a lesson or two to help things along I guess. Most of it is probably just bad habits - I did find a way to stop my thighs burning on the last trip by scissoring my legs to turn, pushing inside ski forward to initiate the turn and letting it turn the skis, felt like the videos of people carving but still kept my back seat stance. Not sure if this helps anyone offering advice.
I get the feeling this is one of those things that someone needs to see me ski and give me some advice. Hmmm. Snowheads coaching session in January...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| comprex wrote: |
| Frosty the Snowman, does the Mojo attempt to correct or restrict knee tracking? |
What is knee tracking?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| madmole wrote: |
Solution, Buy a wobble board inflatable cushion and practice squats (single and double footed). The unstable platform forces ALL the muscles to work to stabilise you leg. My skiing last season improved no end due to this. No leg pain and a lot more control
Would recomend this as a great exercise to all skiers |
Very good advice - due to an ankle and groin injury I had some weak leg issues. I got one of these, spent a few minutes a day on it and the improvement is very noticeable on the slopes plus it helps with your balance.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Dwarf Vader, have you got a link ??
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| comprex wrote: |
| Frosty the Snowman, does the Mojo attempt to correct or restrict knee tracking? |
What is knee tracking? |
Proper knee tracking would be the kneecap staying on top of the middle of the knee joint instead of being yoinked to the side by muscle imbalances and such.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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comprex, sorry can't help on that one. The Mojo takes some of your body weight and also prompts one to be in a good position.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| The Mojo takes some of your body weight and also prompts one to be in a good position. |
Oh err missus. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| and also prompts one to be in a good position. |
Ah. It's this that I'm asking about: does it grip the kneecap in doing so?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hasn't monium already identified the problem here? He's skiing in the back seat - he says that's the way he (she?) skis and says he "enjoys sitting in the backseat". He also says his ski technique is OK but it seems that it's not. Skiing in the backseat will make his thighs burn, regardless of how well his boots fit.
If there's time, get down to one of the indoor snow slopes and get some lessons with a recommended instructor.
If not, there are plenty of exercises to help get the weight better centred - Snowheads instructors could no doubt come up with loads.
Could do worse than rent a pair of snowblades for a day. That sorts out any backseat tendencies.
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| pam w wrote: |
Hasn't monium already identified the problem here? He's skiing in the back seat - he says that's the way he (she?) skis and says he "enjoys sitting in the backseat". He also says his ski technique is OK but it seems that it's not. Skiing in the backseat will make his thighs burn, regardless of how well his boots fit.
If there's time, get down to one of the indoor snow slopes and get some lessons with a recommended instructor.
If not, there are plenty of exercises to help get the weight better centred - Snowheads instructors could no doubt come up with loads.
Could do worse than rent a pair of snowblades for a day. That sorts out any backseat tendencies. |
Interesting idea, but then I skiied exclusively on blades from about 12 to 18 years old, and had no issues with balance on them. I also got burning thighs when using them on a trip at the top end of that age bracket. I ski the same way on the planks as I did on the blades, so maybe not as backseat as I thought.
I am going to try shifting weight forward on the trip in 2 weeks, focus on a better stance. Some of why I am sitting back is probably because I see a forward, "proper" stance is painful on the thighs, counter-intuitive for me maybe.
We're going to do a couple of lessons when we get to resort, I'll chuck a new thread up looking for instructor reccomendations in the next week or so. No real time to get to a fridge before then, might be able to get to the Snowheads thing early Jan, but it's the day before we go away.
When I say my technique is ok, I meant more that it's fine to get me down a mountain in a relaxed fashion, and I know the theory of the basics. Most of me skiing in the backseat is just laziness and enjoying cruising around sitting back a bit. More of a choose to not follow the rules than not being able to, if you see what I mean.
Maybe my question is more "Will a ski mojo let me sit in the backseat making almost no effort whatever, and not have burning thighs after a few hours?" but then I'm not sure I want to go down the route of altering my skiing that much with a device that I then can't really ski without. Hmmm.
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You know it makes sense.
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Monium, I had a ski mojo for Xmas and have a knackered right knee joint courtesy of a motor cycle accident over 30 years ago. I ski fine when the slope is gentle, but also lean back as the slope gets red/black.
I have always put this down to "wimp factor" and not entirely trusting the weakened knee joint, particularly as the day/week goes on and it gets more and more swollen and painful. I will let you know how I get on with my mojo after February half term.
Frosty the Snowman, Any advice for a ski mojo virgin? Have not taken it out of the box yet - it looks a bit scary. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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bev bish,
Graham Bell on Ski Sunday didn't like it today, but then he hardly needs it
If youve got it - enjoy it
Monium,
i also had the proverbial motorbike acccident (23 years ago i think) which stopped me starting skiing - i eventually said bug it and went 10 or 11 years back and havent loked back.
i have a brace on my wekeast knee, and knee support on the other. When my knees hurt in the morrning i stop for hot chocolate/strudel/lunch; when they hurt in teh afternoon, i stop for a beer. Then i can ski the next day.
I have worked out that i ski for lenger the more forward i am skiing longer in teh day, im more committed to steep pistes, and my technique generally improves
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Poster: A snowHead
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| sev112 wrote: |
bev bish,
Graham Bell on Ski Sunday didn't like it today, but then he hardly needs it
If youve got it - enjoy it
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agreed. I really can't see the point of him testing it out as he has non of the symptoms that the Mojo helps counter.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hi Monium, I'm no expert by any means but I used to get terrible thigh burn in the afternoons.
In the end I realised that as I was starting to tire at the end of a long day, I was keeping my downhill leg too straight as I was turning, and also leaning back - which was making my legs even more tired! It was especially bad on chopped-up and bumpy afternoon pistes.
I now make a conscious effort to keep my downhill knee bent as I turn, and keep my weight forward by keeping my arms further forward.
The past two holidays I've had virtually no thigh burn at all (except on black runs!), it's just my general fitness/leg strength which could be much better!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I can imagine few people who need a Ski Mojo less than Graham Bell! My OH has one, and we have yet to conquer it - different adjustments and settings etc. We can see that it probably will be very good once we've got it right - but at present it's yet another thing to faff with in the mornings.
I can't ski in the back seat at all - my thighs can cope with a certain amount of it but my knees most definitely can't. It puts huge extra strain on them, so a reasonably correct stance is essential for me - I don't see what can possibly be "relaxing" about standing in a position where your body weight is being carried by your quads rather than your skeleton. It just doesn't make any sense - something an instructor can sort out, maybe.
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