 Poster: A snowHead
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WayneC, But I wouldn't care. A blind rage brought on by a sprained wrist, an unfathomable bill and the impounding of my fave ski poles. Who wouldn't want to kill eh? I think the jury would take my side.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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admin, true, true, - although I think Dogtags are well accepted, as are some others. I recall when doing my 1st season (a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away) that our company had sensibly pre-cleared our staff (and clients, if they took our option) insurance with the various medicentres, recommended GPs and securite des pistes.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Boredsurfing, and feeding it...
I'll be round in a mo 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Nothing makes France look and feel more like a third world country than watching your family scrabbling around to get sufficent cash to pay the ambulance to take their father to hospital when is having a heart attack. Because Insurance not accepted, Credit cards ...Non! only cash.
Sorry a little bit of personal bitterness towards our European partners there....still they have nice hills 
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kevindonkleywood, that wasn't our recent experience, the ambulance company were happy to deal with the insurers directly. I assume a French resident without Mutuelle would have had to do the same though I'm not certain about that. . Not nice to have had that experience.
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marcellus, what a great explanation of the French system. After living there for 18 months, I gave up trying to get to the bottom of it. That makes it seem so simples! 
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Bode Swiller, I'm guessing that you are based in the UK and have grown up with the NHS. The vast majority of people here have no comprehension of the financial aspects of seeing a doctor just about anywhere else in the world apart from Cuba.
In most places in the world seeing a doctor/ nurse/physio costs a lot of money. Even when backed up by state insurance.
I don't know what you do for a living- but would you do it for a succession of UK students, in town for no more than a week, with no proof of identity, insurance or cash and then let them amble off saying that they would be back later?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ed123, For the sake of accuracy, seeing a doctor in the UK also costs a lot of money... hate to think how much NIC I've coughed up over the years both as employee and employer. But I don't begrudge any of it (and, yes, I know it doesn't all go to the NHS).
Not sure what I'd do with a student - some might be eligible for alternative payment methods  - but it isn't my problem. Think I'd start by accepting credit cards and at least making a phone call to the injured student's insurance co (24 hour medical emergency number) provided that the student had those details on them. In other words... try just a tad harder, recognise you're part of the tourism industry, join the 21st century and stop being so bloody stubborn.
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Bode Swiller, yes of course you've paid- but not at the point of service.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Bode Swiller, mind you this is all a bit third hand, did the medical centre accept cards? In your origional post you mentioned that ' students might not think to carry them' - were they offered - we will never know.
You still haven't explained how you would respond in an albeit hypothetical similar situation.
When I last visited a French doctor, in Les Arcs 1850, he made no charge at all - professional courtesy.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| ed123 wrote: |
| Bode Swiller, yes of course you've paid- but not at the point of service. |
And?
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| Quote: |
You still haven't explained how you would respond in an albeit hypothetical similar situation.
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What part of...
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Think I'd start by accepting credit cards and at least making a phone call to the injured student's insurance co (24 hour medical emergency number) provided that the student had those details on them. In other words... try just a tad harder, recognise you're part of the tourism industry, join the 21st century and stop being so bloody stubborn.
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...are you struggling with?
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When I last visited a French doctor, in Les Arcs 1850, he made no charge at all - professional courtesy.
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cos your skis aren't worth impounding
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You know it makes sense.
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almost everyone in the UK treats the health service as free because they don't pay at the point of service. If you don't believe me go to your local Accident and Emergency department any time after about 8pm.
The students in Tignes would not have been used to paying directly for health care and would probably see care, free at the point of service, as their birth right in France just as it is in the UK-and so they and their predecessors might well have been very poorly disposed to go back and pay and would rather go to the pub. I'd guess that like vets in the UK the medical centre had had lots of problems with non-payment.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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but you still don't say what you would do.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Bode Swiller, bit of cross posting there.
Your OP was very vague.
1. Did they have credits cards with them- were the cards refused- you have not said anywhere.
2. Did they have insurance details with them- ditto.
For all you know some pissed up students turned up with no details, no cash, no credit cards and expected several hundred pounds worth of service on trust and then got gobby when that didn't happen.
Not being gobby gets a different response- have a go.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Bode Swiller, anyway at least they didn't keep their kidneys (I'd guess that on a student ski trip livers would be worthless)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| Not sure what I'd do with a student - some might be eligible for alternative payment methods - but it isn't my problem. Think I'd start by accepting credit cards and at least making a phone call to the injured student's insurance co (24 hour medical emergency number) provided that the student had those details on them. In other words... try just a tad harder, recognise you're part of the tourism industry, join the 21st century and stop being so bloody stubborn. |
I'm fairly sure they do accept credit cards, I know somebody who paid for some treatment there last week.
There is a note on the front desk of the pisteurs' office in Tignes that describes the problems that they have been having in claiming back rescue costs from insurance companies, from memory it said that they would require you to pay then claim it back yourself (or have Carte Neige).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| ed123 wrote: |
| but you still don't say what you would do. |
Oh, if you insist... firstly, I'd fix the patient whilst ensuring that they understand that there will be a bill and that payment will be required "cos sacre bleu this ain't the flamin' NHS matey rossbeef". I'd have a credit card facility (Jeez, even market stall holders have credit card facilities). If the patient didn't have either cash or card but did have details of their insurance and the 24 hour emergency medical phone number, I'd grab 30 seconds from my hectic day and make a call. Now then, for small bills, it is likely that the insurance co will advise that the bill needs to be paid by the patient and claimed for later, but not always and at least it's worth a try. To be honest I reckon 9.5/10 bills would be settled via one of those routes there and then. If all fails I'd want to know where the patient is staying or what group he/she is with, get some ID if poss, ask when their trip ends etc. (Hey, normally Saturday - Saturday so generally you can work out the fleeing risk). I'd then use something called "judgement" and another thing called "trust", furnish them with the bill and agree exactly when they are coming back to pay it (or you'll be passing details to the cops). If they don't return then indeed it's time to give details to the rozzers, or go seek out the trip organiser or get a life... if one or two escape so what? Some of the prices being charged for very simple fixes must surely factor in the odd bad debt.
What I wouldn't do is treat an injured visitor to an equipment impounding and mis-trust session.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Your OP was very vague
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ed123, The question mark was a bit of a giveaway. Just asking a question. I wasn't there (and I've been very clear about that), just raising the issue and others have chipped in with useful comment. Please go over-analyse something else.
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Some years ago the English doc at Val D'Isere told me that some insurance companies were very slow in coughing up - so I can see why the French like payment up front. It does seem reasonable to have a card payment facility, of course. There seems to be an assumption throughout this thread that the insurance company will pay eventually. But having looked at the circumstances of the case, the insurance company might not pay out at all.
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But having looked at the circumstances of the case, the insurance company might not pay out at all.
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Exactly. For example, plenty of winter sports insurance packages don't cover skiing off piste without a guide (dogtag, for example, may well not do so if you were skiing off piste despite "local warnings". when I queried what this meant, and said what if, for example, there was an avalanche warning of 1 or 2, they said no, it wouldn't be covered).
I agree that payment by card should be acceptable - as it would be if you bought an expensive ski jacket in Decathlon. But if, for whatever reason, that's not possible, then hanging on to something as a surety seems fair enough to me.
You try getting anything, even a teeny weeny injection, in a BUPA clinic without paying upfront.
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Insurance won't pay for lots of things; injuries related to alcohol or drugs or STDs for example!
So Bode, if you were a French Doc in Tignes faced faced with a drunk, stoned, syphilitic UK student with no ID, credit card/ cash, who had fallen (because of drink / drugs) off piste/on a closed run and had treated a variety of UK yoofs before in similar circumstances and lots thousands- what would you do?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I am always bemused when someone repeats a story told of a friend of a friend as a statement of fact. The only fact that doesn’t ring true is that the Medical Centre capitulated when threatened with the involvement of the Gendarmes. As they were acting well within the law in retaining the ski equipment until their costs had been met, as someone else has stated it is known in this country as a lien being placed on the property until the debt is settled. It has occurred to friends of mine on two occasions both in French resorts, it can also occur in this country if it is stated with your contract with the provider of the service, most marinas use it if a boat owner hasn’t paid their mooring fees – indeed under these powers you are allowed to sell the property if the debt is not cleared after a certain period of time.
Actually the most amusing part of the OP post was that the students should be trusted to return and pay at a later point!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Fast Pat, Welcome to Snowheads and thanks for the input into this somewhat strange thread...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| ed123 wrote: |
Insurance won't pay for lots of things; injuries related to alcohol or drugs or STDs for example!
So Bode, if you were a French Doc in Tignes faced faced with a drunk, stoned, syphilitic UK student with no ID, credit card/ cash, who had fallen (because of drink / drugs) off piste/on a closed run and had treated a variety of UK yoofs before in similar circumstances and lots thousands- what would you do? |
I couldn't give a toss about your hypothetical scary students. Jeez, you've got a warped imagination. As far as I know the students concerned had just been up skiing/boarding. You know, like normal people. Difficult to ski and drink/take drugs/catch an STD etc whilst looking for a closed run. I'm sure their evening activities included alcohol and (sweet mother of Jesus forgive me) maybe the partaking in group sex but, hey, doesn't everybody?
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maybe the partaking in group sex but, hey, doesn't everybody?
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Bode Swiller, now I know why you are such a fan of A u s t r i a
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You know it makes sense.
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Fast Pat, welcome back 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Not very nice of the medical center to handle things this way but as long that treatment was given then I can see mitigating circumstances:
- Large students groups, french or british, tend to wreak havoc in resorts (I know, I was part of such group once and heard many stories matching my experience) so the center will be negatively prejudiced unfortunately, based on experience.
- Insurance companies are known to be very slow payers as a general rule, more so when they are not from the country where the accident happened. The insurance company might fight the claim as well for whatever reason and initially refuse to pay..Said Insurance might be an unknown company, which offer little garantee to the clinic that they'll pay up. It's like saying, "I promise my dad/uncle/friend will pay up very soon"...it would give me little comfort.
- A lot of people do not realise their cheap travel insurance do not cover winter sport so the center, as suggested by Bode Swiller, would have to call each insurer to check whether this is covered or not. For that to be a useful tactic, it'd have to be done before treatment, and then what if the answer is no cover? no treatment? I don't think that is an option. so treament first, recover money after is the norm..
- As said, these are private practices/clinics, cash flow is as important as any other business and very few business provide a service prior to payment, so I can understand they're keen on ensuring they get their money. Considering most of their patients are just passing by they have no great leverage on said patients once they have "fled" back home, if they have not paid up...
That said they should defo accept credit cards.. And if the students "don't think to carry cards or cash" then they probably should stay at home or ski with mummy and daddy rather than moan about the mean people at the medical center who kept their toys...
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Poster: A snowHead
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if you bought an expensive ski jacket in Decathlon. But if, for whatever reason, that's not possible
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pam w, are you implying Decathlon only sell cheap gear? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Kruisler, I would agree about UK insurers being slow to pay their bills to the French system. Although Julian's personal claim was settled reasonably quickly, he received bills from both hospitals for several months afterwards, which I kept forwarding to the insurers. In fact, he received one on Friday from Grenoble. this time the hospital were at fault though as it had been paid in April.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Helen Beaumont,
I am sure there are insurances that do pay reasonnably quickly. That's the problem, as always, you need just a few to ruin it for the others. And then every insurance getting tarred with the same label, and people stop trusting them..
Anyway, personally I am not worried....although covered by the UK NHS, I am French covered by, as it turns out, French insurer AXA... If that is not a golden pass I don't know what is! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Kruisler, you should be fine then.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Kruisler wrote: |
| That said they should defo accept credit cards.. And if the students "don't think to carry cards or cash" then they probably should stay at home or ski with mummy and daddy rather than moan about the mean people at the medical center who kept their toys... |
Agree totally about centres/ambulances accepting cards, the story above about the cash only ambulance with the heart patient in it is a disgrace.
Agree totally about students not carrying a means of paying their way out of trouble. When I was 18 I got my first 'Access' card as I was off to study at UCLA, if I could think to carry the means to pay at that age (and get a card as a student in the early 80's) then anyone should be able to figure it out. It amazes me how people want to travel around the globe and expect everyting to be handled just how it would be at home, it may be our nearest neighbour, & in the EU, but its not GB. Mind you I wouldn't go out in Leeds without a card in my pocket for emergencies.
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admin mentions carte neige annual in this thread & marcellus quotes €29 with his season pass. Can anyone give me a bit of advice on this as the thread has made me a bit windy about 'cash only' rescue even with my UK insurance and trusty Mastercard in my pocket. The CduMB website only quotes a daily and 7-21 day price.
Thanks for any info.
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| pam w wrote: |
Exactly. For example, plenty of winter sports insurance packages don't cover skiing off piste without a guide (dogtag, for example, may well not do so if you were skiing off piste despite "local warnings". when I queried what this meant, and said what if, for example, there was an avalanche warning of 1 or 2, they said no, it wouldn't be covered).
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If that is correct, then they are simply lying when they claim to cover off piste at all.
You can't have an avalanche level of less than one if there is any snow present.
More likely, you had somebody answer your query who shouldn't have done because they didn't know what they were talking about.
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FAQ
