 Poster: A snowHead
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Just had a call from a pal who was in Tignes last week along with 2,500 students! He encountered a situation (more than twice) with the medical centre there that got him all fired up. Seemingly, people got themselves fixed up there but didn't have the necessary cash to pay for their treatment (smallish bills of a hundred or so Euros) - hey, no excuses, but students may not think about carrying cards or enough cash for such situations and possibly they assumed that the mandatory insurance they had to cover their trip would be good enough to give the clinic comfort that their bill would be settled (most of us know different). The answer as far as the clinic was concerned was to confiscate their skis and poles until the bill was paid. They only relented when it was suggested that this act was tantamount to theft and the cops would be called. The bills were paid anyway. OK, I can understand why the clinic may be nervy about getting paid but it just strikes me that the situation would have been handled entirely differently in most other ski countries.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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WHen I was blood wagonned in Alpe D'Huez many moons ago - the ski patrol peeps held on to my skis until my uncle went to pay up. It seems like the practise is spreading to medical centres too.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Bode Swiller, sounds like pretty standard practice in France from what I've heard/experienced.. as I understand it these medical centres are private service providers independent from the state, so you can see they're keen to get the bills paid (happy to be corrected if this is not the case) - would I trust 2,500 students to settle their bill, no chance...
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Bode Swiller, As far as I've ever heard, if you don't have proof of your insurance (and it's a reasonably international cover - i.e. dogpass, etc) then that's standard practice and has been as long as I've been aware of it (i.e. since 1985 anyway).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I quite agree with bertie bassett.
If you owned a car workshop in the UK and a Frenchman walked in to get £250 of work done on his car, would you then let him drive off with nothing more than the promise that he would send you the money? I suspect the private hospitals are doing this because plenty of people have left the country without paying them.
The alternative is to go to the public hospital in Bourg, armed with your EHIC card, or carry a credit card.
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I'm not saying I would necessarily trust a student either (they have far better things to do than to remember to go back and pay) but two wrongs don't make a right. Interesting that they "shat themselves" (as my pal put it) when the gendarmes were mentioned. Confiscating skis is dodgy. Go bananas if it happens to you.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| I'm not saying I would necessarily trust a student either (they have far better things to do than to remember to go back and pay) but two wrongs don't make a right. Interesting that they "shat themselves" (as my pal put it) when the gendarmes were mentioned. Confiscating skis is dodgy. Go bananas if it happens to you. |
Bode
No way would any medical centre 'shat themselves' over an issue like that - I mean do you really think the local gendarmes are going to get stressed about the local medical centre's practices vs. a bunch of students who've probably caused the gendarmes trouble in the resort previously. Chances are le flic et le Docteur went to school together or their brother married his sister or similar.
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bertie bassett, Well, annecdotaly, they were very keen for the cops not to be called. Perhaps his brother cheated on the other's sister in the end! Forget students for a sec, if this happened to me I would not allow Monsieur Le Clinic to hang on to my personal property (or member of my family, I've heard that one too). If they are going to play this kind of game they need to be on the right side of the law regardless of who they went to school with.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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under a new name, in some of these places though, proof of insurance simply isn't enough. In fact we were told , "Sorry we don't accept British insurance" upon speaking to my insurer I was re-assured - it was actually a French company, "No problem" I say, "It's French insurance!"
"We don't accept French insurance either" 
Worst of all though, no cards!! Cash only...
They can be difficult these Frenchie Doctors... The alternative, as recommended by my insurance company is to go to Austria 
Actually, as ever, it's the Carte Neige (annual) / Carré Neige (daily) that get you smoothly through these situations in France and however good your actual cover, there's little guarantee that anything else will be accepted in lieu of immediate payment 
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Moral of the story - divvant gan to France.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I don't think that this is strange at all..... not restricted to British students either.
In France (even for fully paid up French Residents) there are no "state doctors" they are all "Private Doctors"................ you visit a Doctor you pay, he gives to a prescription you pay the cost of the drugs (not a lesser charge and apparently there are no "Free Drugs" like there are in the UK eg contraception for a woman).... then what happens is for French residents they are reimbursed by the state 60(ish)% of the "standard" state set charge...... if you then have "Mutual" you are reimbursed by your insurer the balance of the "standard" state rate...... if you buy better mutual insurance you get more of the difference back between the "standard state rate" and what you were charged.
For example (and these are not the real values); You visit a doctor for some reason... you pay him €35... The standard state rate is €30... he is permitted to charge you €5 more becuase he is a "traums specialist" (which most Doctors are in SKi resorts)..... about a 7/10 days later you get €18 credited to your bank account.
If you don't have mutual the trip to the Drs cost you €17.
If you have basic Mutual you then get €12 back from your them.. so the trip now cost you only €5.
The next level of mutual is +10% which means they will refund to you the standard +10% so you'd have got €15 back from them therefore teh trip cost you €2.
You can take these levels all the way up to "complet" which means no matter what you were charged you get it all back...... which if you're planning on major stuff and want to see the top man then you can get covered for it.
The snealy bit from the insurers is that once you've taken out a mutual +20% you can't then step it back to a mutual +10... you could increase it but not decrease.
As for terh medical centre being "concerned" if the Gendarmes where called... I doubt it very much........ they were probably just more exasperated (sp?) that your friends didn't understand.......... at that stage if yuor friends hadn't paid they would effectively had treatment and not paid for it.. so they would have been the ones in more trouble than a Dr doing his normal days work.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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cathy, which is fine but in some French places it is cash only which is a shocking state of affairs.
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You know it makes sense.
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Sorry a few replies whilst I was typing;
Bode Swiller, they are 100% within the law to charge you on the spot..... ok kidnap by the Medical Centre might be iffy so may theft... but if the gendarmes were called then you would probably be "escorted" by the Gendarmes to their nice little waiting room with bars on the window until your friends pay the Medical Centre what they are owed.
admin, carte niege covers rescue, evacuation and 1st line treatment.................. example... my Brother in law dislocated his shoulder last christmas day.... piste rescue can't be faulted, nor could the helicopter team... nor the ambulance that took him from the helicopter landing pad to the Medical Centre not could the Doctor who spent the next hour trying to relocate the shoulder. Having failed and agreed with me that my BIL needed to go to hospital the Doctor (my local "GP") looked at me and apologised.... until now it was all covered but from here on in I would have to pay at every corner.... when the ambulance turned up (the same one that dropped him off) €315 on the spot before they left, the hospital wanted another €1500 once my BIL was sorted.
I have since seen the GP and he asked how things were with my BIL and again apologised.... had the ambulance driven from the heli landing to the hopsital (or even the helicopter dropped him at the Hospital) it would have all been covered.... his apology was becuase usually he can "relocate" shoulders so the rescue team with consultation with the Doctor decided to take my BIL to the medical centre... the fact that my BIL has disclocated his shoulder so many times there's barely a socket there and what is has chipped bit meant he couldn't.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Frosty the Snowman, yes, you're right. I guess that's why I dither when buying a lift pass in France - and then go for the Carre Neige option, even though it seems a bit pointless when you're fully insured.
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Poster: A snowHead
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As for terh medical centre being "concerned" if the Gendarmes where called... I doubt it very much........ they were probably just more exasperated (sp?) that your friends didn't understand.......... at that stage if yuor friends hadn't paid they would effectively had treatment and not paid for it.. so they would have been the ones in more trouble than a Dr doing his normal days work.
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honestly, none of my friends are students, this story was told to me on the phone this morning and it struck me that confiscating ski equipment is not the way to handle a small bill payment situation. Not sure exactly how french law works but I suspect that you would only be in trouble if you intended not to pay... a Dr's normal day of work shouldn't involve ransom.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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BTW I should add that I still buy the carte niege with my season pass despite having very good "extreme sport" insurance... €29 why not?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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admin,
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The alternative, as recommended by my insurance company is to go to Austria
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Your insurance company is just biased
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| marcellus wrote: |
| Bode Swiller, they are 100% within the law to charge you on the spot..... ok kidnap by the Medical Centre might be iffy so may theft... but if the gendarmes were called then you would probably be "escorted" by the Gendarmes to their nice little waiting room with bars on the window until your friends pay the Medical Centre what they are owed. |
meanwhile, in the real world... I'd say "yes, I accept that I owe you for the treatment and I'm going to pay you. I'm off now to the hotel / cash machine etc and I'll be back soon. This is where I am staying. No, matey you can't hang on to my property or wife / children / nanny, you'll just have to trust me. Au revoir. Call the cops if you want but I'll be back before they get here most likely etc etc".
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How many students would actually have that much cash in their bank accounts at the end of term ? I always buy my sons the Carte/carré neige as if they go out skiing without us, and have an accident, I want to know they won't be stuck somewhere without money to pay for ambulances, etc. From our own experience in Serre Chevalier last December, I paid around 30€ at the doctors (by bank card) . I didn't have to pay out any more cash during our visits to two hospitals. Ambulance driver asked if we had been able to contact our insurers yet, but said not to worry that getting hubby to hospital was far more important, and they would deal with the insurance company directly, which they did. I called the insurers from the ambulance to report the accident.
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| Boredsurfing wrote: |
admin,
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The alternative, as recommended by my insurance company is to go to Austria
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Your insurance company is just biased |
When my daughter was carted off to hospital in an ambulance from Zell am See, (after falling at the very bottom of the final run of the final day), the only charge I had to pay was €29 direct to the ambulance.
After treatment at the hospital I was asked for her EU insurance card. On being told it was back at the hotel, (it was in fact left at home), they just asked me to fax them a copy.
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marcellus, Why when you've paid for full ski insurance? you're just paying twice for the same thing. You might as well carry a valid credit card instead of the carte neige as you know it will all be reimbursed.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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WayneC, sometimes we forget our credit cards, sometimes people may not be concious,or they may not have enough cash on them at that moment. Lift pass with insurance will always be in your pocket. I carry ehic cards and a card from our UK insurers, but sometimes that is not enough in some resorts . If , god forbid, my sons injure themselves and I am not there to foot the bill, I want to know they will be put into the ambulance without worrying about money. EHIC card is useless for a trip to the doctors,as their consultation fee is not covered by the French healthcare system, so you would have to pay and claim it back on return from your holiday anyway.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Boredsurfing, Not my experience of what I assume is the same VT medical centre. Excellent service, polite, credit card payment etc.
I would want some security if folks couldnt pay as well although expectation of cash is OTT. Interesting thing is for most of the visitors the use of skis and poles is going to be irrelevant anyway for the next few days so seems a very fair and reasonable surety.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Agenterre, Glad to hear VT is ok now. That thread, memorable as it is dates back to 2005! (The years pass quickly as one gets older)
I have suitably edited my post above.
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There was a very long thread on here in 2005 about Val Thorens which ifirc involved the patient being held until cash was provided
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And if the cash wasn't forthcoming they would have sold the patient for medical experiments?
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You know it makes sense.
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Bode Swiller, or pork pies a la M. Todd
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I wouldn't really call that dodgy.
What are the alternatives? Calling the police on you? Perhaps they could phrase it as an option eg "if you cannot pay, you must leave something of value as a form of deposit. If you fail to do either, and attempt to leave, we will call the police".
Same thing either way, unfortunately it can't really be operated on trust
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Boredsurfing wrote: |
| Bode Swiller, or pork pies a la M. Todd |
Ah, that's why nobody is saying "this happened to me". Don't go to France, they'll eat you.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Bode Swiller, In Austria stay clear of the cellar
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Boredsurfing, at least you're kept alive down there.
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unfortunately it can't really be operated on trust
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Skola, if they refuse credit cards and shock you with the size of the bill (I heard 200 Euro for a quick diagnosis, bit of springy bandage and a sling) then they actually have no choice but to trust you to go get the cash. Holding your loved-ones or your gear hostage is a non starter even if the doc is sh*ggin' the chief of police.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| bertie bassett, Well, annecdotaly, they were very keen for the cops not to be called. Perhaps his brother cheated on the other's sister in the end! Forget students for a sec, if this happened to me I would not allow Monsieur Le Clinic to hang on to my personal property (or member of my family, I've heard that one too). If they are going to play this kind of game they need to be on the right side of the law regardless of who they went to school with. |
They probably are on the right side of the law.
Confiscating them would be one thing. Temporarily retaining them as security is another thing entirely.
And just how would you "not allow" them to do it to you?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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In UK terms this would this not be a criminal way of acting (theft/seizure of goods with no court order) to settle a civil debt?
I must remember this thread next time people are whinging about the NHS 
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| Quote: |
And just how would you "not allow" them to do it to you?
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alex_heney, The question is the other way around in my head!
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Bode Swiller, But unless you have refused to let go of them while they are treating you, they will have (physical) possession of them. To stop them, you would very possibly have to use force to get your skis back.
And they would then call the gendarmes.
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| stoatsbrother wrote: |
In UK terms this would this not be a criminal way of acting (theft/seizure of goods with no court order) to settle a civil debt?
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If that was what they were doing, then yes.
But it isn't. They are holding them temporarily, as security against your return with payment. There is no suggestion tey are going to prermanently keep the skis, which would be a requirement for theft.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| alex_heney wrote: |
Bode Swiller, But unless you have refused to let go of them while they are treating you, they will have (physical) possession of them. To stop them, you would very possibly have to use force to get your skis back.
And they would then call the gendarmes. |
And I would call my mates and we'd kill all of them and any witnesses. Then we'd destroy any buildings with CCTV. So there. This might be getting out of hand.
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Bode Swiller, Talking of getting out of hand... A very good friend had a visit from the Plod after he might have said that he might get rid of his recent ex-wife's new fellow in a similar fashion. Threats to kill they said... Luckily any CCTV didn't have sound or subtitles and we're sure it was just a misunderstanding...
He now refers to the said fellow as his 'Best friend', did him a great favour... 
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FAQ
So OH was being stretchered out to the ambulance to be taken to hospital and had to dig out his credit card and sign the slip on the way 
