 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Jivebaby, I've told no-one how they feel. However, do you doubt that others may have views diametrically opposite to mine regarding the wearing of helmets?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Jivebaby, it's nowt that a couple of parrot pills and staying away from this pesky thread can't cure! 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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crosbie,
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I need the acuity that comes from vulnerability and fear, not the overconfidence from feeling protected and safe.
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"The not the overconfidence from feeling protected and safe" In simple terms you've said that Helmet Wearers/ Wearers of Helmets are overconfident because they feel protected and safe. I fail to see how you could think you meant anything else. On the otherhand if you had said that you would prefer to ski without a helmet so that you could see/hear better and have the wind in your hair then that is a completely different statement. Now is that what you meant? I would not presume how to tell and non helmet wearer what I think that they think they think. I 'm more interested to know what you think you think or in that post if you did at all? 
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Tue 8-12-09 23:10; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I want to get a helmet for all the safety reasons mentioned above even though the thought of wearing it doesn't seem appealing as I get too hot with a normal hat on but I can easily see the sense of it and need to do something about it. Anyway, I have a few questions:
1. Can you get helmets that provide some level of cooling/vents
2. Do they only look good wearing goggles, as I like to wear sunglasses if I can as I find them more comfortable but don't want to look silly (yes I know this is vanity Vs safety)
3. Do people mostly buy their helmets or hire in resort, as I'm wondering if a helmet can be took on a plane as hand luggage
4. What's the going price for a good helmet that meets my requirements and looks reasonable. (I'd prefer not to look like Wallace (Wallace and Gromit) in his motobike helmet)
5. Any suggestions on makes welcome
Thanks
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Sorry Jivebaby, I wasn't generalising about helmet wearers there, but ME. I'm saying I'd feel overconfident through feeling protected by the helmet.
I was talking in terms of what "I need" in that sentence.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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crosbie, For me it's the opposite -I feel very vulnerable without my helmet  and in ski safety terms feel naked without it. 
I really don't want some prat/expertskier or really anyone joe bloggs skiing along normally minding their own business having a fantatsic time to suddenly lose an edge, misjudge a bump or simply sneeze at the wrong moment (eyes close when this happens) and ski ever so slightly into me, even gently without allowing me the option of wearing a helmet to protect my self (at least to some extent) From personal experience I believe it has probably saved my life. Possibly the idiot in question was me at the time. Maybe I'm being morbid and over dramatic and it would merely have ended my skiing career. I pretty glad it did neither
More importantly I'd like to get a free ski pass at 70 in the Grand Massif and ski well into my 80's....Critically I've a much better chance of achieving that ambition wearing a lid than I have without one.
I resisted wearing helmets for years... the first bad fall in one is the clincher (by bad I mean a real whack to the head which causes pain, bruising, bumps and perhaps some giddiness), not so much as it hurts a little less  , but that you stand a much greater chance of literally walking away safely. From your "arguments" you seem to concede that point, confidence remarks aside. 
Your thesis if viewed differently and seperately could be read as a rebuke or argument against OVER-confident skiing/skiers, and if so, I amongst many others would possibly agree with you if that is what you mean?
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MMMMmmmm Helmet threads - doncha just luvem?
At this point someone usually says something along the lines of "wear one if you want, don't if you don't it's your choice and your head"
So I just did.
Personally I don't give a flying one whether YOU wear a helmet or not.
And this is positively the LAST time I am EVER going to post on the subject.
EVER.
EVER.
EVER.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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OK That was a lie. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Axsman, do you wear one?
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You know it makes sense.
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Axsman, it's YES or NO, quite simple really.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Axsman, we're w...a....i.......t........i.........n...................g
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Poster: A snowHead
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Bode Swiller, Maybe he just wears one when skiing. Maybe not.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I haven't the heart to read through the whole 3 pages - haven't we ever done a straight should folks wear a helmet Yes/No poll before?
B.t.w. I love the idea of a smiley wearing a helmet - where's CSM when you need him.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Axsman, Bode Swiller, I prefer not to know.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Jivebaby, I too feel vulnerable without a helmet - I see that as improving my safety consciousness.
I see head injuries as a small fraction of all modes of fatality or serious/chronic bodily impairment. It's reducing all risks through heightened awareness I'm inclined toward. I use wrist-guards in my gloves, but these do not affect my feeling of vulnerability to all risks. A helmet has a far greater psychological affect on me with respect to feeling more impervious to collision and thus all risks. If I wore a helmet I just know I'd start thinking it was time to get into straight-lining some narrow couloirs.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Helmet too warm? then you havnt tried a Giro G10, I was skiing in +11C last spring and was actually cooler wearing the helmet than without it. You can really feel the air being pushed through it. Really needed the same effect on my T shirt, rest of me was too warm
Liner can come out for washing, but I've never done mind and its 5 years old now (head doesnt sweat in that helmet) and smell free
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crosbie,
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I too feel vulnerable without a helmet - I see that as improving my safety consciousness.
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I quite understand although I personally disagree with the logic. I wear a helmet to improve my safety, and to keep me concious. Saftey conciousness is like turning the lights on when driving -all systems are go! My personal mission is to ski as fast or slowly as I wish, with the ability to stop whenever I require. Quickly and safely. I work constantly to be aware of the slope, surrounding skiiers and to improve generally my peripheral vision & awareness. It one of the things that WS tries to include as a key part of WSA courses, and it's certainly top of my list. Wearing a helmet is the apline equivalent of seat belts, doors on cars or for that matter a roof on a house. It's possible to do without all of these physical additions, but ultimately silly, uncomfortable and potentially hazardous to the driver/resident. All of these things are physical restraints which stop BAD things from happening. A helmet apart from being cosmetically challenging does nothing BAD to the wearer and potentially prevents BAD things from happening too.
I know understand your point of view in as much apart from your personal conciousness, your arguement runs out of steam before its left the platform, in that you've demonstrated no proven downside to wearing a helmet, and that you admit that there are positive benefits.
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I see head injuries as a small fraction of all modes of fatality or serious/chronic bodily impairment. It's reducing all risks through heightened awareness I'm inclined toward. I use wrist-guards in my gloves, but these do not affect my feeling of vulnerability to all risks. A helmet has a far greater psychological affect on me with respect to feeling more impervious to collision and thus all risks. If I wore a helmet I just know I'd start thinking it was time to get into straight-lining some narrow couloirs
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This says nothing about helmets at all- This is simply how YOU FEEL about wearing a helmet which is of course a completely different question to that originally posed "Yes or No to wearing a helmet for skiing"
Someone may suggest that the wearing of wristguards encourages skiiers to fall over more in the knowledge that they are less likley to sprain their wrist or damage their hands. I pesonally wouldn't make that suggestion as that would in IMHO be just a silly as suggesting that Helmets encourage reckless skiing. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Where does the personal protection begin and end? Have witnessed a few injuries in my time and, have to admit, the worst was indeed a head on collision where both parties were choppered off and, so I was told later, one of the victims may have died. Every other injury I've witnessed before and since then has involved other areas of the body, a few heart attacks being the most terminal. Possibly the gnarliest injury though was where a guy had fallen in the moguls and another skier couldn't avoid him... ski tip up the jacksie! Bright red moguls. How artistic, but the guy was in a very bad way. Haven't witnessed a broken femur but my mate had one and very nearly died from shock and blood loss. Fair weather and a helicopter saved him. So, what I'm saying here is that there are many ways of passing on to the next life or destroying what's left of the current life. Few of the options actually involve your head. Do I wear an anus protector or leg irons? No, of course not, that would be absurd but in my experience, areas other than my bonce are at more risk. Thing is to think hard about your overall preservation on the slopes as the difference between a life-threatening lung-collapsing blow to the chest and a blow to the head are only 15" apart. Got chest armour? Of course not.
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Bode Swiller,
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have to admit, the worst was indeed a head on collision where both parties were choppered off and, so I was told later, one of the victims may have died.
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Where does the personal protection begin and end?
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You seem to have answered your own question. If it's not obvious, the dead bloke is a clue. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Yep wear my chest armour for off road motorcycling and accasionally for mountain biking, also knee and elbow pads and padded shorts
Thing is very little trauma to the body will kill you outright, whereas very little trauma to the head will
If body armour were as comfortable and easy to wear as a helmet I'm sure more folks would wear it. I did try wearing it while skiing but found it restrictive. What we need is normal ski clothing with D3 built in
So for me helmet benifits far outweigh negatives, the opposite for current armour (this is for mainly on piste skiing), If I was a park junkie then the armour would definately go back on as that increases the benifits above the negatives
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Jivebaby, The circumstances of that collision didn't make me think "ooooh must get helmet", both individuals were doing something reckless that caused their own situation.
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You know it makes sense.
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Thing is very little trauma to the body will kill you outright, whereas very little trauma to the head will
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The cold, the altitude, the shock, the weather that stops the chopper coming in etc etc. A chest injury can most definitely kill.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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ccl, you had a nasty blow to the head or something?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Jivebaby, I think most will agree that we cannot readily establish a conclusive answer to the thread starter's question. All we can do is offer our personal opinions and reasoning. I'm happy to offer a 'No' perspective, and it seems you are happy to offer a 'Yes' perspective.
Bode Swiller, good points. The trouble is every single collision involving injury to an unprotected head would appear to argue the case for a helmet (even if in some cases a helmet wouldn't have been sufficient to withstand the impact), and so it seems self-evident that helmets must be beneficial. This misses the less obvious potential harm from greater confidence through feeling less vulnerable and increased risk taking generally. It's possible the greater risk taking outweighs the protective benefit. Very difficult to measure (and highly controversial).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I vote we do a controlled trial take 60 or so most vocal people from each side of the argument and drop them 20ft headfirst onto concrete. Then simply count the living, we could count confined to wheelchair dribbling as 1/2.
Im not sure it would be scientific but the threads would be shorter 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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kevindonkleywood, I like your thinking but, in that manner and from that height, they'd ALL die (someone will be along soon with sliderule to tell us the velocity at the point of head hitting concrete) so the argument would rage on among their relatives. Also please bear in mind that those of us who prefer Austria would more enjoy being dropped headfirst onto something nice and traditionally woody.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Why is it helmet threads do this.... they cling around... come back to life... get re-generated into a slightly different OP... and yet they pull me in from a great distance....
This is my 2p's worth....
Wearing a helmet is purely up to the person. It only affects the wearer and it is their choice.
People who contrive negative responces based on 'safety' and 'over-confidence' are trolls.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Bode Swiller,
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a few heart attacks being the most terminal
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La Piste services have de-fibs and trained staff located in all first aid points on the mountain, as heart attack is the biggest 'killer' in the ski area.
(Btb Those piste patrols and first aid staff only wear helmets if riding a skidoo)
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Jivebaby, crikey - sounds like you've had a few nasty accidents - good points made.
We both wear helmets - who knows whether they'll save a life in a life-or-death situation. But they'll certainly prevent my skull getting damaged in less serious accidents and may help to lessen more serious damage. The OH had a nasty fall last season, just coming off the soft snow onto a piste. Very flat light, didn't see the drop down on to the bashed piste. Wham. He was knocked unconscious for several minutes so must have banged his hard pretty hard. Now, who knows if wearing his helmet prevented any damage but he sure as hell was glad he was wearing it. He's also had a silly fall whilst practically stationary and whacked his head back on the hard piste.
Can't see any downsides to wearing a helmet, plenty of benefits. But that's my choice and I wouldn't dream of telling anyone what they should wear. Their choice doesn't affect my safety. Personal decision.
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Well, I'm off skiing in a minute, without my helmet and (horrors) with my headphones! Are we doing on-piste music in this thread or are we saving that one for later?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Lizzard, don't worry in a few years time we'll all have headphones on saying things like "Keep to the left edge of the piste. At the next junction take the left exit, then bear right." and "You have reached your coffee stop". Predictably, there will be many cases of 'shortest route' leading intermediates down couloirs.
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