 Poster: A snowHead
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Boredsurfing, what frank4short says. Canada usually expensive. USA depends on the Dollar,
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Boredsurfing wrote: |
Can I ask another innocent USA question?
Is the lift pass much more expensive than in France? |
I'm not sure how innocent that question was, but the answer (and I'm speaking as a fan of NA skiing) is shockingly expensive but not always obviously so as many NA resorts hide their lift prices until later in the season when flights, etc have already been booked.
Taking our last and next family holidays as an example gives some unpleasant answers - Zermatt, CHF297 for 8 days and CHF149 for the kids; Jackson Hole, USD672 and USD400. Given that the dollar and franc are of approximately equal value, that's a disgraceful difference - about CHF1000 vs USD2500 - and it's even more outrageous when you consider the relative sophistication of the Swiss mountain infrastructure. I can't emphasise this strongly enough: if anyone following this thread is pricing up a holiday to NA, make sure you consider the cost of lift passes.
Having said that, it's easier to find discounted lift tickets in NA. Many accommodation providers will have discounted deals for their customers and some resorts have fantastic deals for kids. Big Sky, for example, allows two free kids (up to 10) per adult on the slopes and in accommodation, and we took advantage of that deal to craft a reassuringly cost-effective trip a few years back.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| koru wrote: |
| I would agree that gourmet food options tend to be limited at NA resorts (based on my experience of six different ones, east and west coasts and Colorado). However, if you prefer to spend less than £10 per person for a quick lunch on the mountain (which I do), rather than spend a lot more for a leisurely meal, my experience has been that there are lots of very decent options at NA resorts and a lot more variety of food. |
Absolutely agreed. In European megaresorts, any lunch costing less than £70 including drinks for a family of five is likely to be both hard to find and tough on the palette - humdrum bolognaise sauce with sticky kept-warm-for-too-long pasta is coming to mind. In NA, though, for that price you can have something seriously enjoyable, albeit certainly not gourmet - such as a large bowl of fiery home-made chilli washed down with a beer and a brownie - and still have a fistful of dollars in your pocket.
If you're saving cash or in a hurry, my experience suggests that NA food is generally significantly better at any given price point. But you can't generally get the kind of nonsense served up in Courchevel's Cap Horn (where I well remember once being in a party that ran up a lunchtime bill for more than EUR3,000  ) over there.
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Jonny Jones,
1) US dollar is NOT equal value to Swiss Franc. It's at about 20% premium for the past 2-3 years. Granted, that can change any time.
2) US resorts do not "hide" their lift pass price. They simply make the final decision later. You can always use previous year price as guide and factor in a few dollar extra for increase.
3) Agree on the various discount available. And agree lift pass is more expensive in N.A. on average. Canada in particular, since there're fewer discount venues.
4) I'm not sure what sort of "sophistication" the Swiss mountain intrastructure you're talking about. Drag lifts???
I'm totally at a lost when it comes to your opinion of food. I've managed NOT to get fleeced in Europe when it comes to food. But that's probably because I don't drink much. So my food bill is mostly just "food" not "liquid food", which I found are better quality and good value in Europe on average.
In the US, food quality vary but tend to prices relatively close (i.e. little difference in price for good vs bad food). So you may not get very good food, but you won't feel too upset since it doesn't cost that much. Canada have better food options but it's not always obvious. So you have to "hunt" for it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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abc,
1) Just checked the rates... USD1 = CHF1.02. That's pretty equal in my book.
2) I always check pass prices before booking a trip, and several resorts make it very difficult to find the previous year's price until October. You may think that their motives are as pure as the snow that falls so abundantly on their slopes; I'm rather more cynical!
3) We agree
4)The swiss infrastructure includes many large, high-speed cable cars, some of which are constructed at exceptionally high altitude in incredibly difficult terrain, a high-speed funicular railway, an overground railway and an abundance of high-speed quads and gondolas. And your comment about T-bars baffles me - the only T-bars in Zermatt are on the glacier where the continuously moving 'ground' means it's impossible to erect chairlifts. Also, T-bars can remain open in windy conditions that would close a chairlift or gondola.
I didn't suggest for a moment that I've been fleeced in Europe: I once had a memorably expensive luch, but I did so with my eyes open. But you can find plenty of references on Snowheads regarding EUR15 plates of self-service pasta bolognaise, and they're not exaggerating. I'm simply suggesting that in my experience, the small owner-run huts that seem quite plentiful on the slopes in NA often serve food that for the price is often better than economy fare in Europe.
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
abc,
1) Just checked the rates... USD1 = CHF1.02. That's pretty equal in my book.
2) I always check pass prices before booking a trip, and several resorts make it very difficult to find the previous year's price until October. You may think that their motives are as pure as the snow that falls so abundantly on their slopes; I'm rather more cynical! |
1) The exchange rate can change between when you book the flight and when you buy the lift pass. (it was at 20% premium 4 month ago, and could again be at 20% premium or discount come winter in 4 months)
2) I'm not being generous to their motive. The majority of clientile for NA resorts are from the same continent. 90% of their clients don't booke till pass Thanksgiving (end of November, or October for Canada). In fact most airline within the continents don't publish their winter fares till then either. So your "proposed motive" is pure fantacy (and if I may say so, from position of ignorance).
| Quote: |
4)The swiss infrastructure includes many large, high-speed cable cars, some of which are constructed at exceptionally high altitude in incredibly difficult terrain, a high-speed funicular railway, an overground railway and an abundance of high-speed quads and gondolas. And your comment about T-bars baffles me - the only T-bars in Zermatt are on the glacier where the continuously moving 'ground' means it's impossible to erect chairlifts. Also, T-bars can remain open in windy conditions that would close a chairlift or gondola. |
Zermatt is the one resort I haven't been to. But look at Davos, it's 50% drag lifts!!! Except the resort isn't 50% on glacier!
I've also "experienced" the funicular railway in more than one Swiss resort. All I can say about such "sophistication" is SLOW. As for cable cars and trams. They have their places when the terrain demands. But otherwise, it dumps 50-150 skiers on the top ALL AT ONCE. Great for creating traffic jams and nothing else.
Oh yes, you have to stand while you wait for the tram/cable car, and stand during the ride too. As oppose to chairs, which you get to sit.
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abc, I agree that cable cars aren't as comfortable as chair lifts and that they can create traffic jams. But, in Zermatt, we found ourselves using them over the alternative chairlifts because they're so incredibly fast. Zermatt is primarily about endless groomers, and you don't need to rest at the end of a run in the way that you do if you've been skiing powder and bumps.
As I've said before, I personally prefer the NA style of resort - but I'm realistic enough to recognise that the many people disagree with me and that the Swiss approach to infrastructure requires considerably more investment.
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Jonny Jones, You can get some great lift pass deals for JH via ski independence - including free passes for the kids. No need to pay ticket window prices. Usually saves us about 40% of what we would have paid 
Last year we paid £726 for 11 days for 2 adults, a 12 year old and a 7 year old. Given that the kids would usually cost about 60% of an adult rate - I make that about £21 a day per adult... which is cheaper than comparable Swiss resorts I think...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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stoatsbrother, yup. It does seem that the American resorts price lift-passes by confusion. Makes comparison difficult. I had learned before that you can shop around and getter better deal than the published rate - I think WTFH first put me onto that. Seems a weird way of going about business - but it's the American Way, I suppose.
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| Quote: |
but it's the American Way, I suppose.
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achilles, it's very much the American Way (which the Canadians don't share as much, for example) to have an outrageous high "regular" price that no one in their right mind should pay. Then have millions of discounted price for anyone having half a brain. That pratice applies to ski gear purchase price, lodging, car hire... and lift pass!
If you've ever bother to look at the notes on the inside of most hotel doors, it shows the "rack rate" of the room, which is usually in the $200-500 range. Does anyone EVER pay $200 for a dinky motel? Not really. (well yes, maybe at New Years eve as a walk-in guest when the whole town is booked up!)
I can't say if it's any better or worse (never work in marketing). It's just how things are priced in America. (and maybe that explains why bargain hunting is very much a national sport in the USl) )
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Fri 18-09-09 15:19; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| abc wrote: |
| it's very much the American Way |
I've noticed that when travelling in the US (not skiing). Why do you think that is the case?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rob@rar, I suppose it's because there's always someone for whom the full price is small beer, and hunting for vouchers not worth the effort.
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laundryman, does it have any reputational impact on companies which do that a lot? Just thinking about the constant "half-price kichens sale" that MFI used to have.
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You know it makes sense.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| it's very much the American Way |
I've noticed that when travelling in the US (not skiing). Why do you think that is the case? |
Honestly, I don't know.
Though I've heard the following.
Basically, people are MORE likely to buy when they feel they're getting a "good deal". So the artificially high "full price" makes everyday price a "good deal".
Or put it alternatively, instead of INCREASE the price at time of high demand, they just offer DISCOUNT for the rest of the time! I remember when I first moved to the States stores are ALWAYS running "sales" all year long, just changing the excuse: "spinrg sale", "summer sale", "back to school sale", or whatever obscured holidays sale...
I'm not sure if it actually works. But that's what I've been told the rational.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| laundryman, does it have any reputational impact on companies which do that a lot? Just thinking about the constant "half-price kichens sale" that MFI used to have. |
I honestly don't know. It is a bit of a PITA.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| laundryman wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| laundryman, does it have any reputational impact on companies which do that a lot? Just thinking about the constant "half-price kichens sale" that MFI used to have. |
I honestly don't know. It is a bit of a PITA. |
I've often been left with the vague sense that I'm being a little bit screwed by the artificial high price because I haven't quite done enough research to find the best possible deal.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Fast forward to the internet marketing age. I have an e-mail account where I direct all these "special sales" e-mail to go to. It got to be such I don't EVER buy anything at "regular" prices! If I decide I need something, I "watch for sales". It won't take long, within a week or two, I would have at the minimum of at least 10-15% "discount" on the whole store. Then I happily buy what I planned to buy 2 weeks back. Sometimes I got more discount than that, like up to 40% off for no particular reason! God forbid I pay full price only to see it "on sale" 3 days later at 30% off!
| rob@rar wrote: |
| laundryman, does it have any reputational impact on companies which do that a lot? Just thinking about the constant "half-price kichens sale" that MFI used to have. |
I bet it does. See above!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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stoatsbrother, 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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abc, Another idea from Tim Harford. Think of times when there is not a sale as "Price increased by 25%" rather than the times when there is a sale as "price reduced by 20%".
In the UK - I think - something only has to have been on sale at full price for 28 days in the last 6 months at one or two branches - for claims that a reduction really exists to be legal. what happens in the US?
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rob@rar, it's not just the US (though it's probably far more prevalent there).
Only the other day, laundrette #2, who was going to Thorpe Park, mentioned that there's nearly always a 2-for-1 deal if you book online. The cash price for tube tickets is eye-watering too. There is probably an element of cost saving involved in keeping people away from ticket booths.
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laundryman, not to mention cash flow benefits as well.
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FAQ
