 Poster: A snowHead
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Last season, in Chamonix, we skied for a day with a well-known guide, Remy Lecluse, and a Scottish lady who was training to become a guide.
That got me thinking. If let's say in 5-10 years' time I wanted to move to the mountains, and I was ready to invest 2-3 years in training, would I have any chance whatsoever of becoming a qualified UIAGM guide?
The move to the mountains would happen only if there was a cushion of money, but at some point I'd have to earn something...I don't want to be a ski instructor, and as many have said it's not easy to just turn up and get a good job/ start a succesful business - so why not dream of something different?
Where am I now? Mid 30s, good skier (probably a little better than the Scottish lady mentioned above, but still firmly amateur), almost zero climbing experience though I like hiking, in decent shape but nothing special. There would be a LOT to learn, both in terms of technique and in terms of terrain, region etc.
I am sure it would be impossible to get at the level of the top guides. But is it feasible to aim a little lower but still qualified UIAGM? Or am I just too old, flabby, flatlander etc?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You already speak French, I take it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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horizon, interesting question - should get some interesting answers. One thing which occurs to me is that there is a lot of very good mountain training available in the UK - would be a good place to start and possible to get going right now, without major commitments.
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Lizzard, je me débrouille. I think that would be the least of my worries, especially since my native language is Latin-based.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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horizon, try a PM to helinick (the pocket guide  ). I've no idea how frequently he might pop by to pick it up but no harm in sending one.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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horizon, One chap who could help is snowcrazy who as well as being a SCGB rep is also an 'Aspirant' uiagm mountain guide.
But unfortunately he is away doing his summer job and won't grace these pages until Oct/Nov.
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horizon, A Google search brought up this website http://www.bmg.org.uk/index.php/eng/Guide-Training Tells you what the pre-requisites are and how much training and assessment is needed to become a professionally qualified internationally recognised mountain guide.
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from what a lady guide told me, it's a very hard qualification to get, it involves alot more than skiing, you have timed running over boulders, ice climbing, mountain awareness etc etc.
I'm sure she quoted a very small percentage of people going for the tests who actually qualify...
Some links here to some other qualifications for stepping stones:
http://www.mountain-environment.com/qualifications.html
and the big link
http://www.ivbv.info/en/ which backs up what I remember 
Highly competent guides with a high level of training, the highest in existence, is required in four different disciplines in order to become a certified IFMGA mountain guide: rock climbing, ice climbing, mountaineering and ski mountaineering. IFMGA training gives a guide the ability to work on any mountain range whether they already know the mountain or not. It takes five to 10 years to become a mountain guide, from the moment they start serious mountaineering to the moment when they receive their guide diploma.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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horizon, here are the pre-requisites for the British guides:
http://www.bmg.org.uk/index.php/eng/Guide-Training/Pre-requirements
I expect most European schemes require a slightly higher level of skiing but the UK mountaineering requirements are pretty equivalent (or so I understand it) but with more of a Scottish winter bias.
You actually have to be a pretty seriously good climber to get the badge - don't want to rain on your parade but it would be quite exceptional to get to the required level from a standing start at your age. Or that's the conclusion I came to when I thought about it anyway 
You could look at becoming a mountain leader which is easier but doesn't let you go onto glaciated terrain. Or become an instructor and model yourself on offpisteskiing. He isn't a guide but seems to spend a lot of his time teaching off-piste while staying on the right side of the rules on that sort of thing
It's a bit frustrating that there doesn't seem to be an Alpine equivalent of the Canadian ski guide qualification, which would be a bit more accessible for the likes of us
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Don't the full mountain guides require something like 6 multiple day Alpine expeditions, 20 climbs (at 5+), 15 ice climbs lots of ski expeditions, boarding and telemark, survival skills, snow training the list goes on.
I looked into it as well but the main concern for me is the cost for travel and the ludicrously expensive kit, if you are working full time you will have the money but doing all the trips during standard holidays would take years! If you are working part time it would be hard to have the money.
I know a number of full guides and to a man they are great guys with rich parents. I am possibly going to look at working toward my Austrian Ski Guide over the next few years.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Arno, yeah, it's the mountain climbing that's the technically very tough part. And the general experience / time you need that's the financially tough part.
I guess I'm wondering (here in my air-conditioned office in a flat country) whether it's even possible. I mean, I play tennis and I KNOW that no matter how much I train, how much time I put into it, I can never get above a good amateur level (though I could probably become a coach if I trained a lot). I could certainly become a ski instructor (though earning a living from it, that's different). But there's this gulf between a ski instructor and a full mountain guide that's huge and very hard to cross.
Good discussion, though.
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http://www.ensa-chamonix.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=130&Itemid=272
Is the relevant stuff from ENSA. Doesn't have the same specifics of the BMG pre-requisites but they are obviously expecting a very high level of everything.
I know one person who qualified but who was not able to ski when he decided to go for it (Belgium not being known for its winter sporting prowess). He simply moved to Chamonix and learnt quickly.
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You know it makes sense.
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How would becoming a guide compare do you think to becoming an ISTD level instructor? In terms of the amount of time and training? Certainly you don't need to ski as well technically, but you do need to be very very skillful.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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horizon, I'll send you snowcrazy's email.
I invited him to take the spare place on the Maurienne holiday but he will be repping for the SCGB over that period.
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Poster: A snowHead
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dulcamara,
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Don't the full mountain guides require something like 6 multiple day Alpine expeditions, 20 climbs (at 5+), 15 ice climbs lots of ski expeditions, boarding and telemark, survival skills, snow training the list goes on.
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If you worked on this basis you would be very seriously underprepared. I looked at possibilties for doing climbing instruction many years ago when I was a decent climber, and talked to a few guides - the expectation was you would be able to lead at least HVS, in big boots, in the wet - and not just your choice, but any the assessors pointed you at, and at the same time be able to look after a client!
The climbing ability and experience at a high level needed is huge - the five to ten years quoted above is from a starting point of being a very talented and experienced climber already.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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RobinS, wow. This is getting to the point where I have a better chance of making money from writing fiction (itself a vanishingly small chance). Oh well, good to know.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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horizon, sorry to say brother that I looked into this around 5 years ago and worked out that I didn't stand a chance of actually doing it right. The skiing side of it you would be able to get, no problems, but you literally wanted to have started climbing when you were 5. FWIW I am a competent climber and get nervous just thinking of the level I would have to climb at to get my badge.
It's not even just the skill base that you need, it's the years of dedicated experience. You would need to give up your day job now and start training.
And don't forget, many people would be too tight to tip you. 
Check out IML if you want to do something similar. I suggest guided walking in the summer and then some work in the winter leaving you more time to ski.
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beanie1, there are a reasonable amount of British mountain guides who would not be at ISTD level. more are getting BASI or similar qualifications now but if you go back 20 years, British mountain guides had a very strong bias towards mountaineering/climbing (or so I am told, no doubt a guide will come on now and tell me I am wrong...). that said, the requirements for mountain guides are different. the massively pre-eminent requirement is that you are safe. you aren't really there to teach technique but rather to get your clients through a route safely. this is all talking about minimum requirements. in practice, some of the standard training routes that ENSA people do would make plenty of fully qualified instructors poo-poo themselves
horizon, you can't underestimate the physical demands of being a guide. alpinism is really physical even at the lowly level i have done it to - AD is my limit - and that is when I am being dragged up by a guide. can't imagine how hard it is guiding rather than being guided
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I don't know what all the fuss is about, I went up the absolute highest mountain in the UK when i was 15 and I didn't need any of the kit or training.
These guys are just milking it to justify their huge pay packages!!!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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dulcamara, nice fishing!
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horizon
Just start writing some bollox about a boy wizard or something & your fiction career will take care of itself. Maybe a genre busting Romany crimefighting one man vigilante wizard with CSI skillz Got to maximise your chances of selling film/tv rights.
On the guiding point looks like cat skiing guide might be way to go - at least you earn tips (except from the tight fisted Brits).
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no no, horizon this is Skiing. ski'ing very little to do with fishing
(feeling sarcastic today, does anyone else hate big company HR departments as much as me?)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| kitenski wrote: |
Highly competent guides with a high level of training, the highest in existence, is required in four different disciplines in order to become a certified IFMGA mountain guide: rock climbing, ice climbing, mountaineering and ski mountaineering. IFMGA training gives a guide the ability to work on any mountain range whether they already know the mountain or not. It takes five to 10 years to become a mountain guide, from the moment they start serious mountaineering to the moment when they receive their guide diploma. |
Becoming a guide is the most comprehensive climbing/mountaineering qualification there is. The skiing element of it probably only accounts for maybe 25-40% of what a guide is & of that the actual skiing maybe only accounts for half. The rest has to do with snow sense, avalanche prediction, etc.
Then taking that into account the climbing standard & experience required to just be admitted to the scheme (whether that be BMG or ENSA) is phenominally high. If you were to start training now with no experience & go at it full time I would think you would be extremely lucky to accrue the required experience in under 3 years, probably more like 5. As a determined amateur/part timer i'd imagine that figure would probably be more like 10 years. Remember that's just to get onto the scheme.
After that you're looking at a further 3-5 years training once you been accepted to complete the qualification. It also costs about £30+K to do all of the necessary courses & exams to qualify once you've been accepted.
Whilst it does seem like a great & relatively easy existance the guides have when you see them ski guiding especially, the reality of the situation is massively different. Guides tend to fall into 2 categories of people as a general rule - 1. Individuals who have grown up in alpine regions & have climbed, ice climbed, skied & moutaineered virtually their entire lives, so they're practically born with right skillset & have everything else on their doorstep 2. Climbers/mountaineers who are passionate about life in the mountains & have dedicated years & years of their time acquiring the necessary skills & experience to allow them to make a living in the mountains.
I have a friend who is thinking of applying & he has approximately 15 years of climbing, skiing & mountaineering experience at an extremely high leverl plus a large number of lesser climbing qualifications. Even at that he reckons he has maybe 2-3 years ahead of him to log the necessary number of climbing routes of certain types to accepted on as a trainee. Another guy i know has been a guide for about 10-12 years it's only in the last 5-7 years that he has got to the point where it has become a sustainable business for him that happily pays his way.
In reality it would probably be easier to become a ski instructor & take it as far as it's possible to take it so you don't end up doing snow trains down pistes with large numbers kids. Sorry to rain on your parade.
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horizon, I spent a day with the President of the Méribel Bureau des Guides a couple of weeks ago, and was talking to him about becomming a guide (out of curiosity rather than ambition). Most of the advice above seems good. Bear in mind also that a guide needs to be qualified to cover a huge range of activities - Climbing, Alpinism, Skiing, Via Ferrata, Canyoning, Hiking. He also told me that he dad been climbing since his teens, but was "scared" by one of the climbing tests he had to perform in his assessment. He doesn't stike me as the sort of perso n who is easily scared by heights!
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FAQ
