 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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saikee, what are you smoking? I don't like the La Rosiere side of the area because it's not a great place to ski and even davidL knows that 'cos he always takes his guests over to Italy. I Love Livigno for its atmosphere even though the skiing is not challenging and there's a tiny hill called Domobianca near Dommodossola with less than 20km of piste that is bloody fantastic if you want to work on your technique and enjoy food to die for. You really do have the wrong end of the stick. I don't hate any area large or small. I dislike people who think that the size of a ski area is measure of its pleasure.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Masque,
I wrote in previous post to speculate
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| Therefore you are only talking about a place without too many visitors to spoil your unmarked powder. In that sense shouldn't any unpopular resort, say one that doesn't feature in TO brochure, fit your bill. |
Despite our apparent disagreements I am actually doing exactly what you do by going to the less known facilities to ski. Livigno in Lombardy does have more skiers than I like but the scenery of the frozen reservoir is stunning. There are hundreds of other smaller and little known resorts throughout the Alps waiting to be discovered.
A resort that you and I dislike may be great for others though.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Not that phuqing global warming shite again. I heard about this but, the last couple of seasons started for us in November and finished end of April. Bring on more global warming!!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| saikee wrote: |
| Not all but many cordoned off areas can be dangerous in the opinion of the resort owner but the off piste skiers/boarders may view the danger not applicable to them as they consider having skill above the average. The cordoned area may be difficult for the resort owner to rescue the visitors, say it is a cliff face which may be impossible to land a helicopter but it can be exhilarating to charge down and getting attention from the others. A lot of the cordoned area can also be associated with the avalanche risk. The trigger of which can endanger the other piste users in the area. |
I think you fundamentally misunderstand the nature of off-piste skiing in Europe. First of all it's at your own risk. Second of all the "resort owner" doesn't own the terrain that you ski on, only the services they provide such as uplift or accommodation. Which part of the mountain you ski is up to you, except where there are areas such as national parks where you need a special permit to ski.
Resort services mark some off-piste hazards which are relatively close to the piste, such as small cliffs, drop offs, small lakes, etc. But the amount of this cordoned off area is very, very small compared to the off-piste terrain available, and the cordoning off is an advisory service not marking areas where it is forbidden to ski. Further away from the piste such hazards are not marked at all. There are also areas above pistes which can be hazardous in case you trigger an avalanche, but these are not often cordoned off (although you must take responsibility for your actions, and IIRC people have faced legal action for triggering an avalanche on to people below them). So to say that people who ski off-piste, in the big resorts or anywhere else in Europe, are considered an outcast is incorrect and would be unjustifiable if it did happen.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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rob@rar, hiking the terrain, that I ski in winter has been very useful and interesting for me. It's given me a much better perspective of what I ski on, and shown me what I never get to see in winter.
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So to say that people who ski off-piste, in the big resorts or anywhere else in Europe, are considered an outcast is incorrect and would be unjustifiable if it did happen.
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I see this as a type of inverted snobbery, by the people that lack the skills or the desire to ski the mountain, who deride the folks who can and do.
Resort piste skiing, can resemble the daily commute. Queue for the 1st uplft, meet the same crowd piste after piste, same crowd for coffee, lunch......
Great if you like crowds.
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Great if you like crowds.
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snowbunny, I enjoy a bit of off-piste skiing but am not good at it, and hope to get better. I greatly admire skilful off-piste skiers (or more often snowboarders) I see from the chairlifts. The initial suggestion that people in Europe look down on off-piste skiers was absurd and really not worth responding to; the reverse is very much more often the case. Indeed you are, here, deriding piste skiers (who "lack skills") and your description is a bit of a caricature. I frequently ski down empty, or practically empty, pistes, ski straight to an empty lift, then ski down another empty piste. Par contre, in some of the areas known for "off piste" people can get trampled to death by the "crowds" after overnight snow.
I agree about hiking the terrain in summer though - that's what I've been doing for the past few weeks. 
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| snowbunny wrote: |
I see this as a type of inverted snobbery, by the people that lack the skills or the desire to ski the mountain, who deride the folks who can and do.
Resort piste skiing, can resemble the daily commute. Queue for the 1st uplft, meet the same crowd piste after piste, same crowd for coffee, lunch......
Great if you like crowds. |
If that's not snobbery - regular or inverted, take your pick - I don't know what is.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| snowbunny wrote: |
I see this as a type of inverted snobbery, by the people that lack the skills or the desire to ski the mountain, who deride the folks who can and do.
Resort piste skiing, can resemble the daily commute. Queue for the 1st uplft, meet the same crowd piste after piste, same crowd for coffee, lunch......
Great if you like crowds. |
If that's not snobbery - regular or inverted, take your pick - I don't know what is. |
No, I don't desire to follow those choices, others do, and are happy with them. Nor do I ski in a large group, or in large resorts.
What I don't do is deride people that enjoy different aspects of this sport, who is qualified to say which is better.
It's not snobbery though you may choose to see it that way. That is your choice. I really don't care what you think.
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rob@rar, just to be pedantic, I think you're generalising a little too much. Some lift operators do own the slopes they use (c.f. all the nonsense in Les Houches of late).
Saikee, "piste" and "mountain" safety is generally not the sole responsibility of the lift operator - although I would expect in the vast majority of their licences that there is some degree of joint responsibility with the local commune, local police (i.e. in Italy), guiding companies, etc. See Vallorcine this winter where the local Mayor declared a certain area out of bounds and illegal to ski.
As one who has ducked ropes on numerous occasions and will continue to do so it's not the preposterously outlaw activity that you suggest and has nothing to do with "consideration". I can give you many examples of ropes that I know are there to cover ass, keep out the daring but unskilled or simply to mark a boundary. Some you should respect always, some sometimes and some never.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| rob@rar, just to be pedantic, I think you're generalising a little too much. Some lift operators do own the slopes they use (c.f. all the nonsense in Les Houches of late). |
A little bit of generalizing, I accept, but not too much to make a valid point, IMO of course.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rob@rar, I was pre-admitting my pedantry... 
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You know it makes sense.
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Jeasus, sorry about causing the argo. Who knew my bad spelling (yes i did mean Zinal) and general enquiry could result in handbags at ten paces? I must be more careful the next time I post. The only way the on running argument could be settled, I feel, is by a 30 sec freestyle danceoff - win the crowd and you win your freedom!
Sorry I should have probably put in a bit more info about our group and what we are looking at. The four better skiers are relatively decent, all pistes no hassles and most off piste not much hassle but with lots still to learn and improve upon. We are looking for good off piste, and seen as we are the ones that organise the holiday we tend to weight it somewhat in our favour when choosing the result - a bit selfish, but fun none the less. We really enjoyed Val D'Isere for the off piste and the quality of the TDC. We are just looking at exploring new resorts and perhaps find somewhere that the pistes are a little easier for the beginners (2-3 weeks mainly) and that the off piste doesn't get tracked out so quickly. If you have skied Las Lenas, bar the extreme cost, that would suit us perfectly. We just have to get it dragged up to the Northern Hemisphere and make sure Marte is open.
Generally we would like a place where you could meet up for lunch and ski as a group for some of the afternoon. The apres ski is not a massive key part of the holiday as we will be a big enough group so should be able to have some decent craic, but at the same stage, somewhere that there is a lively bar is better. So to sum up, we are just looking for the perfect resort for 2-3 weekers and those searching for fresh tracks and brilliant off piste, that is lively enough, but not too hectic. Where the pistes are quiet and the off piste left untouched. Oh and that there is good availability of accomidation - not asking too much are we??
Thanks for the help though - and for all the stats!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Dublinfella, there is some half decent info in here once you get past the aggro! 
I think the good skiers would enjoy Ste Foy or Zinal. Either will be even better if you are happy to put some skins on (or walk) for 45mins/an hour. I've only spent a couple of days at both and both offer lots of potential to skiers with this inclination. Do a search for my "Steep Vanoise" TR for pics from the North Face of Foglietta, which is about an hour's skin from the top lift of Ste Foy. I could spend a few days just lapping that in decent conditions. It also wouldn't be a bad base if you wanted to do day trips to Les Arcs, Espace Killy (or La Ros!)
Zinal probably offers a bit more for piste skiers because you can link up with Grimentz on skis (theoretically but it is a reasonably challenging black run so maybe a problem for your less experienced pals) and all the other Val d'Annivers resorts by road
as has been stated ad infinitum, neither resort offers miles and miles of well linked piste cruising but I'm guessing you knew that anyway?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Hi Arno,
yeah, I knew both were smaller resorts alright - but I think that might not be a major problem for those who are sticking to the pistes as familiarity lends itself to comfort. Sorry, I was genuine in my thanks for the info as there is some good stuff there - and the aggro just makes it a bit more entertaining! And yes we are willing to hike, although having to heavy my hefty self up a mountain is never fun!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Dublinfella, Base yourselves in St Luc and keep the whole party happy. Pistes tend to be cruisey, Off the edge is as steep as you want it to be.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Masque, cheers for that, yeah we have been looking at Val Thorens as well, been there before and had a good time, although we mainly sticking to easy enough off piste at the time. Power naps are definitely needed after hauling my carcas up the mountains as is some good feed (we always have some skilled practioneers in the dark arts of cooking - and some other skilled practioneers in eating.) Ah the choices just get more and more
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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While Val Thoren has loads of off-piste terrain, I'm less sure about the "un-track" part. I think one needs to be pretty quick to get to enjoy the good stuff.
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FAQ
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It's been a long running farce that whenever La Ros is mentioned in a 'where to go' thread there's one snowHead who invariably whores the resort out to his vested interests, so within this community it's almost become the antithesis of where to go and I'm not too slow to call it out for the damage it does to the resort . . . Add to the mix there's a gallon or three of bad blood slopping around with it 
