 Poster: A snowHead
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Hey guys,
Seen as Ireland is offically in depression, I thought the only way to cheer myself up was to starting thinking about planning my ski holiday. So far this has been less than successful, as I start looking at options, start getting excited and then realise I am not going til March. BOO!
Anyway, the last two years we have skied Val D'Isere, where we had some great skiing and good fun. There is a thought to move away from there however, to try somewhere new, to find someone that does not get tracked out with 10 mins and to find somewhere which is slightly more beginner friendly.
Generally our group is made up of 8 - 10 people, roughly half of whom are reasonably recent skiers, looking for good off piste skiing (and good off piste schools) and the other half are on the 2-3 holiday. Competent on blues and easy reds.
Due to some suggestions on here we are looking at Zalin, Sainte Foy and possibly heading back to Val D'Isere. I have not been able to find out much info on Zalin, but it looks very interesting and does Sainte Foy. Any feed back or links of reviews of the resorts would be brilliant.
Cheers
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Dublinfella, I have spent one day at Ste Foy. My impression was that it was brilliant for first-timers, with very easy stuff at the bottom of the hill, fairly separate teaching areas, and some long greens. Also good for off-piste, although I'm not sure how much fresh you would find, just because it is so well known for that. Not great for inbetweenies, I would have said. Since I went they have put in a new lift to open up territory, so that could have changed things.
David
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Don't know about Zalin but I wouldn't compare Ste Foy with Val D'Isere. It is like comparing a a cup of tea with a bottle of whisky.
The number of lifts in Ste Foy can be counted by the number of fingers in one hand but Val D'Isere, fully linked with Tignes, has 300Km piste and known as Espace Killy. From the piste maps Ste Foy has 4 lifts but Espace Killy has 90 lifts! I suppose if you want to round up the skiing friends together Ste Foy will be better because there is a limited possibilities for them go to the wrong lift station and get lost.
If it is off piste go to one that has no piste basher (no prepared piste) like La Grave and leave the other half in Paradiski (435km piste) or 3 Vallees (600 km piste), both of which are on the same road to Val D and in the same valley but nearer from the airport.
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| saikee wrote: |
| If it is off piste go to one that has no piste basher (no prepared piste) like La Grave |
Or indeed another recognised off piste resort like Sainte Foy.......easily accessible too
Not a lot to do at night though....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks for the info,
I know we are not comparing like with like, but just looking at different options. Splitting the group and heading to La Grave won't work for us as it might result in a permenant split for one or two of the couples going, and sure that just gets messy!
Whilst we are not looking for huge nights out, we still like to have a bit of craic. Most of the time we are home in bed before 2 and don't require a major club but a decent pub where the 30 second freestyle dance off can take place is always good.
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DJ, lots. The snow fell once before we visited and we enjoyed fresh tracks all week. There is very little to do at night. We stayed at the Whiteroom Chalet and it was excellent. If the snow isn't great in Sainte Foy Stevo and Iona will drive you to a hill with better snow. Unlimited wine and beer was great.
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Dublinfella, where is Zalin?
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| under a new name wrote: |
| Dublinfella, where is Zalin? |
Doesn't seem to be listed in WTSS '08?
As an alternative, have you thought of les arcs? Lots of blues 'n' reds for the improvers, lots of mileage potential if you include La Plagne, and some great off-piste opportunities. Good schools/guides available. 1800 has some nightlife but in a typical french way, so not quite the austrian style apres. 40 minutes or so less on transfer times compared to Val D'izzy. Day trip to St. Foy possible if you'd like to try that out.
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| Quote: |
under a new name wrote:
Dublinfella, where is Zalin?
Doesn't seem to be listed in WTSS '08?
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The only Zalin I can find is in Bosnia Herzegovina - don't bekive there is any skiing there though 
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Zalin is in Switzerland. I was looking at Les Arc for last year, but was voted out of it, but would certainly look at it as strong possibility. To be honest we are open to all suggestions. I would love to look at getting people over to Lech/Oberlech but very hard to find chalet there within the price range and have to persuade them about snow surety, they are used to going high to make sure we have white stuff to ski on, the grass thing is just not fun!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Dublinfella, no Zalin in GMaps...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Zinal?
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hi Dublinfella, OK have to admit we are huge St Foy fans, first went there in 2004 with my then very novice son, have been back many times since and the novice son(now very advanced skier) spent his first season working in Foy last winter. For a mixed group Foy is great, the new lift opens up a huge blue run which I think is the best I have skied anywhere in that part of the Alps. The off piste is extreme if you want it or mellow depending on mood or ability. The Crystal Dark again is one of the best Black unpisted runs in the Alps. Reports of being able to ski fresh powder all week are very true, as long as its not Easter or half term. The night life is what you make it, most chalets are great for food and wine, and the best fun bar is La Pitch, great pizza, cheap beer by the jug and very late nights and music if wanted. The price of lift pass is only about £150 a week? So as not to appear to biased, I have skied Val and Tignes plus Les Arc for many seasons in my youth, and would put St Foy top of the pile. Worth checking out some of the youtube vids on st foy if not done so already
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You know it makes sense.
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I think an owner with only 4 to 5 lifts will have difficulty to charge the same money as a resort providing 100 too 200 lifts so the ski pass will look cheap.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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saikee, So it's fair to say that you do not like Ste Foy, I think we got the message 
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Poster: A snowHead
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I may go back when I have achieved some level of competence, then 
DJ
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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saikee, that might explain why the Ste Foy lift pass is considerably cheaper than other nearby resorts
and anyway, you can only sit on one lift at a time so it becomes a bit of a law of diminishing returns after a while
i think Ste Foy is a pretty cool place. probably not the answer for people for whom mileage is everything or big apres skiers. loads of nice off-piste and the few pistes I skied there were good fun
Zinal (if that is what you are talking about) is quite similar - plenty of good skiing; slightly quirky layout; really good off piste; not a huge amount of apres
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I am trying to look at the reason behind the attractiveness of Ste Foy which I did not bother with during my visits to Tarentaise Valley. I was reliably told by a German couple that it is good for off piste. They spent only a day there. They also told me not to miss the 2km+ vertical drop of skiing from the top of Les Arc Aiguille de Rouge to Vilaroger.
I don't think it a matter of liking it or not. If we enter Tarentaise Valley we wound meet in order of distance
(1) First is Valmorel with 152km piste ideal for skiers seeking green and blue one
(2) The next couple of juctions are for Val Thoren, Les Menuires, Meribel and Courchevel with over 200 lifts and 600km piste fully linked as the world biggest skiing facility.
(3) La Plagne with about 225km piste now linked up with Les Arc's 200km piste forming the Paradiski.
(4) La Rosiere linking with La Thulie of Italy is a resort claims to have better snow and the experience of skiing two countries in one day. The combined area offers 140 km piste
(5) Ste Foy with 4 to 5 lifts and 30 Km piste
(6) Tignes linked with Val D'Isere at the end of the valley offering 300km piste.
The total distance of two ends of the valley is 34 miles approximately with Ste Foy roundly at the middle. I accept Ste Foy may be the place to go for off piste but I find it hard to swallow that none of the remaining areas with 1600km piste has less opportunity to ski off piste.
If Ste Foy is singled out as better than the rest of the Alps let's us see the justification and not because it is available from a TO brochure.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 8-07-09 14:52; edited 1 time in total
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saikee, why would anyone bother to suggest otherwise when you are clearly already set against it I certainly won't.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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saikee, the problem is that the stats you are quoting are pretty meaningless for someone (like Dublinfella) who is interesting in skiing off piste. The Aiguille du Midi cable car accesses no pistes at all; the La Grave telepheriques access a couple of easy blues which no-one really bothers with. This doesn't mean that these are inferior places to practice off-piste skiing, nor that the cost of a ticket is worse value than (say) a daypass covering the 3 valleys
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Arno, But the OP states that half the party are interested in off piste, the other half want blues and reds. On a second or third trip when I could ski only blues and reds I wouldn't have wanted to go somewhere with only 30km of Pistes, just so the "good" skiers got want they wanted. And if there are only 4 or 5 lifts £150 for a weeks pass does seem very expensive for the blue/red run skiers.
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The lift pass isn't as much as 150, might be 130 Euros or something so £110 at the current mid market exchange.
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saikee, some of the saddest posts on sH are from people who value quantity over quality, especially when many of those vaunted Kms are cat-tracks, x-tracks and long winding greens. The size of a resort is no measure of its skiing pleasure and given the crowds at some it may be the antithesis.
If size of resort is your sole measure, you're demonstrating your lack of ability to advise the OP.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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RobinS, thank you for repeating a point I already made
| Arno wrote: |
saikee, that might explain why the Ste Foy lift pass is considerably cheaper than other nearby resorts
and anyway, you can only sit on one lift at a time so it becomes a bit of a law of diminishing returns after a while
i think Ste Foy is a pretty cool place. probably not the answer for people for whom mileage is everything or big apres skiers. loads of nice off-piste and the few pistes I skied there were good fun
Zinal (if that is what you are talking about) is quite similar - plenty of good skiing; slightly quirky layout; really good off piste; not a huge amount of apres |
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I usually don't post in threads asking about a good resort for red/blue cruisers, or best resort for nightlife. For I have no understanding of such needs and hence not qualify to offer any "advice". I think the reverse also applies: skier who stay on piste have little understanding for the needs and want of off-piste skiers.
saikee should be commended for offering a caution about the size of Ste Foy for the suitability of the red/blue skiers. But he stretches his credibility by insisting it's not a suitable resort FOR ALL due to the limited number of lift. It demonstrate his lack of understanding of the need and want of off-piste skiers. La Grave has but one single lift. Yet it satisfy the needs of off-piste skiers week after week (even year after year for some).
Whether it's suitable to blue/red improving skiers, I'll leave for those who's been there. Just because a 2-3 week skier stays on the piste doesn't equals needing a high milage either. Variety of the piste are more important than the pour number of km's. Not having been there, I'm not qualify to comment on that.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I quote the km piste as an indication of the size a skier can explore a resort. The mileage got nothing to do with it because a skier can clock up more mileage by repeat the same run because he/she doesn't have to travel and progressively increases his/her speed in each run once getting use to it.
The km piste is a measure of the freedom a visitor can try out what the ski pass entitles him/her.
The actual mileage skied depends on the skier's skill. I estimate a beginner will do 10 to 15 km per day by 4 runs in the morning and 4 runs after lunch over a run of say 1.5km. An average recreational skier will probably do 20 to 35km in a day and a good skier should have no problem of exceeding 40km daily. It is on this basis I find a 30km resort can have a lot of repetitive skiing in a week. May be that drives a skier off piste.
I am pretty green here as I haven't explored the Tarentaise Valley enough to rule out the major resorts before trying Ste Foy. In the last visit I spent two weeks there and at least one day needed for each of Valmorel, Val Thoren, Meribel, Courcehvel, La Plagne, Les Arc, La Rosiere/La Thuile, Tignes and Val D. Everyone of them was exciting and can last me for the whole week. I expect Ste Foy to be fun as well. I am just not convinced it has the best off piste and beginner facilities, even I could run into SH who may have a vested interest of the resort.
On the skiing quality I find with fresh snow, less people and the right condition one resort in the Alps is as good as another. Apart from that the mountain scenery, the quality of the lift system (heated seats, double decker cable cars etc), the restaurants, the food, the general facilities, free transportation to neigbouring areas, the unique or particular features of the resort are also entries in my book for good skiing.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Dublinfella, From reading your list of requirements I'm not sure that Ste Foy would meet the criteria you've set, you've already done Val d'Espair and I've no knowledge of Zalin. I used to really like Ste Foy for the odd day, especially after a fresh snowfall but IMO it's been over developed and I haven't skied there over the past two years. I would recommend that you look at La Rosiere, there are lots of reviews on snowheads, which would give you the mix of skiing that you're looking for. It's the next resort to Ste Foy and the skiing is in France and Italy on a single lift pass. It's bigger, livelier without being too noisy and very good value for money.
There are a number of excellent ski schools, there's heli-skiing and because it's a mainly family oriented resort the off-piste doesn't get tracked out. My son Daniel, who has been based in the resort since 1999, offers ski-hosting for his guests, he operates a number of chalets in the village with his partner who's an Irish lass from Galway so you're sure of a warm welcome. They can be contacted at www.morealps.com you could also try www.amountainchalet.com or www.burasnow.com who also offer chalet holidays.
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| saikee wrote: |
| On the skiing quality I find with fresh snow, less people and the right condition one resort in the Alps is as good as another. Apart from that the mountain scenery, the quality of the lift system (heated seats, double decker cable cars etc), the restaurants, the food, the general facilities, free transportation to neigbouring areas, the unique or particular features of the resort are also entries in my book for good skiing. |
So . . . yer just a punter who wants convenience and smoke blown up his ass . . . thanks for the update, so why are you posting in this thread  You obviously can't relate to the parameters set in the OP.
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You know it makes sense.
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For the record, I hated La Rosiere, loved La Thuile and spent a whole week in Sainte Foy very happily.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Masque, you're being very rude to saikee and IMO owe him an apology. For the record I know all the tarentaise resorts well and have stayed in SF 3x and from reading the OP carefully I agree with saikee that SF would not be suitable unless the OPs group have more than 1 car and are willing to travel most days.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Plake, Sorry, I don't see it that way, saikee is equating size of resort to its suitability and that's an outright deceit and in itself more than rude to the OP (that may be my interpretation and I don't feel any lack of rectitude in responding as I have) To say that the rat's nest of pistes in La Ros is a better solution than St Foy is daft. If you know the Tarentaise resorts that well why not recommend Tignes and staying on the Col Du Palet/L'Aiguille Percee side where few bother to go. That would fulfil all the OP points with great off-piste, superb and quiet blues, reds and blacks, plus a large beginners area and some halfway decent nightlife in Le Lac.
All saikee's done is diss' smaller resorts. Is that from ignorance of the resorts or ignorance of the pleasures of more than just mile-munching skiing?
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Masque, the OP says that they want something more beginner friendly than Val d'Isere, and that their group consists of half reasonably recent skiers and half 2/3 wk skiers who want blues and easy reds. We've got to try to avoid a willy-waving "I'm more hardcore than you" attitude where we recommend everyone go to La Grave or Chamonix or Snowbird etc no matter what their abilities! Not that SF is tricky skiing at all, it's just that it is VERY small, as saikee says. The OP's group doesn't sound like the best fit to Ste Foy to me...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Plake, I see what you're saying, and you are correct, but from what I read above, Saikee is not actually responding to the OP, more making generalised observations about how bigger resorts are better.
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Masque,
I have probably skied more small resorts than the average skier as I usually have own transport and had ample opportunity to ski more than one area in one day as my wife often stops after a half day and I have to escort her back to the accommodation and ski another area myself. Here I am trying to say a spade is a spade.
I don't wish to see readers, say who have not been to Tarentaise Valley and not aware the close proximity of the various resorts, to be given the impression thast Ste Foy is the best alternative place to go. If off piste is the top priority and they are aware of 30km piste there then I feel I have offered my information about it.
We have to spend a sizeable saving for a week's skiing holiday in the Alps so factual information should not be offensive.
I have a very good regard to Espace Killy and consider it a decent place to go and was surprised by the OP replacing it with Ste Foy, therefore probing the reason behind.
Don;t think I have ever written off a resort. An enjoyable experience with one resort by one skier may be totally different by another because the weather condition and the time of the visit. We all after different quality from skiing. I don't understand why you have an issue if a skier cherishes being given a nice bubble covered heated seat after paying a king ransom for the ski pass. I am sure in a cold and bitten day you wouldn't mind to have it yourself.
Glencoe has 19km, Nevis Range has 35km, Cairngorm's area is 39km and the largest Scottish resort Glemshee has 40km piste. Would anyone of them suitable for spending a week skiing is up to the individual's choice. I myself is a frequent weekend visitor there.
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saikee, Then like for like and we'll use your benchmark La Ros against St Foy.
Bunny slopes: about the same size with (at last knowledge) better serviced lifts and St Foy's bunny slopes do not turn into the M25 at lunchtime and the afternoon 
Intermediate: La Ros, unless you take that long miserable drag to Italy (not always open) there're only a couple each of uninterrupted reds and blacks, all fairly low and subject to early melt. The rest are all short and chopped shorter by cross pistes and cat tracks. Not the safest environment for any skier.
Intermediate: St Foy All high long and linked without cross trails. Safer and more challenging.
Expert: Stupid question, St Foy has a well earned reputation That neither La Ros or La Thuile can ever meet.
Nightlife is what you want or make it, both resorts have their +s and -s
Is that factual enough for you? please add more
La Ros is a pleasant resort blessed with a surfeit of snow, but a huge amount of bollux is spouted about its guality of skiing. If skiing is why you go on holiday then of the two there is a clear winner. If all you want to do is pootle around in a crowd, you can go anywhere for that and La Ros is fine.
Size is very rarely a measure of quality and should not be touted as such. If you can't see that then you can't be "factual" about it.
I agree that the Espace Killy probably still has much to offer the OP.
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Masque, what a pile of shite, why don't you throw in some legal advice for good measure.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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David L, be specific please, what is incorrect? 
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Masque, apart your obvious bile and difficulty in comparing ski resorts, Ste Foy and La Rosiere are not the same size, there are over 3,000 hecatres of skiing in the Espace San Bernardo, check out how big Ste Foy's ski area is. Apart from the past 2 seasons I've regularly skied in Ste Foy so unlike you I can speak from experience, how many times have you skied there, how often have you been there in the evening?
From the top of Roche Noire to Les Ecudets via Roche Noire and Fontaine Froide, to quote just 1 example, has a vertical drop of 1, 300 metres and is about 6+ kilometres in length, longer than any piste in Ste Foy, Pista 7 is over 11 kilometres long, Marmottes has a vertical drop of around 1 kilometre but in your opinion "there're only a couple each of uninterrupted reds and blacks, all fairly low and subject to early melt. The rest are all short and chopped shorter by cross pistes and cat tracks"
The Espace San Bernardo opens in late November and is still skiable into May, La Rosiere consistently has one of the best snow records in France.
I don't know where the better serviced lifts are, there are 4 in Ste Foy only one of which is fairly new, installed within the last five years, there are 37 in the Espace San Bernardo a number of which are recent installed high speed demountable chiars with a greater capacity than anything in Ste Foy.
I don't believe that you are able to make a judgement about safety given the number of times you've trumpeted your various injuries on this forum, as I recall, a ski-host in La Rosiere refused to allow you to accompany his group because in his opinion you were a complete menace who would compromise the safety of other guests.
In terms of expert skiing La Rosiere is the only resort in France from which it's possible to heli-ski, there are off-piste challenges in La Rosiere every season and it's a centre for kite-skiing and speed-flying.
I think it's about time that you got your head out of your @rse and realised that you still have a lot to learn as far as skiing is concerned and if you can't give sensible comments it's probably best not to display your ignorance by commenting at all.
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