 Poster: A snowHead
|
Sideshow_Bob, I'd agree with your last sentence - but other on than a webpage trying to sell advertising space which DG goes on about - I believe the SCGB makes much more realistic claims these days. The club is a consumer choice, not a religion - saves me a lot of money, has a slightly crappy mag and some good holidays - and that's all.
666, just popping in rarely - avoiding the AZ for now. And actually there is another 8.6% of members whose age is unknown and many of those are probably under 55 too..
Agenterre, I take it you are referring to DGs shameful campaign of club bashing disguised as tough love? Or maybe not... 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Agenterre, It is a difficult one isn't it? The man concerned has been barred from two forums and put in some pretty full frontal assaults against this one IMHO. Hence the . Are those who disagree with him, not allowed to debate with him/challenge what they feel are disgraceful misrepresentations and inaccuracies over here? Has some of it sometimes gone over the top? Perhaps. I am not aware of any orchestration against him btw. But hey, welcome to the internet!
I would like to see a script running on this forum which, when there are more than 10 mentions of the SCGB in a page, unceremoniously dumps the thread in the well-hidden SCGB area of the forum. But till then - when we see ageist and chippy tosh like some of that in this thread, I think it is ok to challenge it.
I think you would appreciate the pleasant politeness that the SCGB forum is these days btw.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
stoatsbrother,
| Quote: |
The man concerned has been barred from two forums and put in some pretty full frontal assaults against this one IMHO
|
and another SCGB member ( club official?) has been barred from this forum twice so I am told, Agenterre does make a valid argument.
The mag is fine Why do you call it crappy?
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Fri 29-05-09 16:28; edited 2 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
stoatsbrother, We are all entitled to have a go at what we see as unfair, unjust or inaccurate. I've been rude ( sometimes undeservingly so) to a few people myself, including DG, albeit not over the SCGB. However, the most vitriolic attacks ( did they not include threats of violence ?) on this forum have been the preserve of SCGB members amongst themselvesr .. which is what makes it so memorable for others of us. No more from me .. unless you make me ! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Boredsurfing, but he does seem to keep coming back doesn't he...
I think the mag has become a rather poorly written "free in an airport lounge" style thing. Too much on ski-touring and heli-skiing, too much advertorial, etc etc. Love the stuff by Andreas Hofer though. My wife - another member - says she can find nothing of much interest for her, as a good (but not obsessed) skier in it. I have heard other members say the same. I prefer fall line for writing style. I'd love to see something more akin to Singletrack World though.
Agenterre, some fair points there. Just does seem to me that often when the SCGB is mentioned, you and Mr Surfing are in quickly with a negative comment.
Anyway - that's more posts today for me than in the last 2 months I think, so time to disappear back in to the shadows...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| stoatsbrother wrote: |
Agenterre, some fair points there. Just does seem to me that often when the SCGB is mentioned, you and Mr Surfing are in quickly with a negative comment.
. |
I can only speak for myself .. absolute hogwash.
- I have not knocked the SCGB in this thread .. only the behaviour of some of its members on this forum. Do you endorse some of the vitriol, including threats of violence, then ? No .. I know you do not !
- I didnt know that I ever even respond on 'those' threads ... your perception but not reality.
- Mr Surfing replies in every thread .. hadnt you noticed ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Agenterre,
| Quote: |
| my only exposure to the SKGB it the senseless, rude, personalised kicking of shoite out of fellow SKGB members that has happened on this forum. Gawd knows ( and why would I want to be a member after that gratuous self-flagellation) what their behaviour is like behind their own walls. Why would anyone want to find out ? |
nice rounded view, ignoring all the thousands of posts by many SKGB members here which have been about nothing to do with the SKGB - and that some of the nastiest stuff on here has been snowHead-on-snowHead.
Boredsurfing - oh come on... don't make me go all Goldsmithian on you and dig out examples... we have had this argument before. But in the end - it isn't a religion and anyone can say what on earth they like about the club whether they are members or not - I just get a bit bored with the way 33000 members get labelled as old, or as hooray-henryish or as vicious self-flagellants by snowHeads, based on pretty poor evidence.
Can't we gang up on someone else for a change? Bulgarian Bladers or something?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
stoatsbrother, It is a rounded view ... my assertion stands, that the worst vitriol ( it IS what I remember) has between some SCGB members about the SCGB. It started many years ago and was a repetitive theme.
Most  who are also SCGB members on here find no need to bring their 'Club''s dirty washing here and I wouldnt even know who is and who isnt a member unless they say so. I can think of a few ( like yourself, B-Surfing, Achilles, Cathy, HelenB, FTS ) but I dont see them using this forum as a playground fight control centre.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Guvnor wrote: |
| achilles, How can they be seen as opposition? One is a commercial organisation with highly trained, highly qualified professionals, whereas one, errmm, isn't |
I am an ex ski club rep but I do still support the repping system and in my view the reps training is fit for the purpose required.
There are plenty of examples in all types of business where people with superior qualifications adopt a protective stance to perceived threats to what they consider to be their exclusive market. As examples it happens in the medical profession, legal profession, trade unionists do it as do various trade organisations and black cab drivers. As always there are arguments for and against, but there is nothing different if AE are taking a protectionist stance.
In defence of AE they have long been advocates of off piste safety. I still have Wayne Wilson's book called Off Piste and when I first read it several years ago I remember thinking that there seemed to be more in the book about safety than there was about off piste technique.
However I feel that AE were wrong to go public in the way they did without checking the facts. Whether they were commercially motivated or safety motivated I do not know. It may have been a bit of both.
The apology came about because of one ski club member who was in the second group referred to, taking it on himself to enter into correspondence with AE. Any suggestion of legal threats from the ski club in my view is nonsense.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| stoatsbrother wrote: |
Not sure I can remember skiing with any Hooray Henrys on 6 club holidays, or when skiing with reps. Actually a rather similar cross section to the snowHeads groups I have skied with. And as regards the age bit mentioned by Mozzer 52% of members known to be below 45, >75% below 55.
... |
My experience of skiing with ski club members is much the same as yours. I also ski with Snoworks and the cross section in my opinion is much the same there.
Speaking as a sixty three year old (as of last week), I can assure some people here that as you get older, you will find it far more difficult to find people to ski with as your various friends get married, have less disposable income to spend on skiing, lose interest or just get old and unfit.
So although as has been pointed out, the age profile of the club is not as old as some would claim, a lot more of the active older members will look to the club as a way of finding someone to ski with. I suspect that is why when you see ski club groups in resorts, you are likely to see quite a few wrinklies.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
Going purely on the content of AEs clarifying content, their issue was not safety; which seems to leave protectionism.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
richjp, top posting and sense as usual. I am a club member and think it bad form to cross bash. If it involves the SCGB and you want a whinge then whinge over there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| richjp, top posting and sense as usual. I am a club member and think it bad form to cross bash. If it involves the SCGB and you want a whinge then whinge over there. |
Well said. I've not been a Ski Club member for 15 or maybe 20 years so I really am a disinterested observer, but it saddens me when I see people using snowHeads as a platform to air their grievances with the SCGB.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| sahsah wrote: |
| Going purely on the content of AEs clarifying content, their issue was not safety; which seems to leave protectionism. |
Unfortunately in your opening post you omitted the last sentence of AE's response. There is a little sting in the tail as I think you should know.
This is a situation where as the old saying goes, a particular ski club member has won the battle, but the ski club itself may end up losing the war.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Boredsurfing wrote: |
stoatsbrother,
| Quote: |
The man concerned has been barred from two forums and put in some pretty full frontal assaults against this one IMHO
|
and another SCGB member ( club official?) has been barred from this forum twice so I am told, Agenterre does make a valid argument. |
Quite. I entirely agree with Agenterre's post - but DG was not the SCGB member/snowHead who came to mind on reading it.
| rob@rar wrote: |
| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| richjp, top posting and sense as usual. I am a club member and think it bad form to cross bash. If it involves the SCGB and you want a whinge then whinge over there. |
Well said. I've not been a Ski Club member for 15 or maybe 20 years so I really am a disinterested observer, but it saddens me when I see people using snowHeads as a platform to air their grievances with the SCGB. |
Also agreed, save that my membership only recently lapsed. I felt I'd got good value out of my membership and met some delightful people on SCGB holidays along with some total prats - as one does in life generally, including on sHead meets I expect.
I'd prefer it if nobody bashed the Ski Club on here and would also prefer it if rude Ski Club members didn't post on here, but that's undoubtedly pie in the sky. And for the record - at least as I see it - DG may be annoying, but he is never impolite.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Why oh why do otherwise sensible people get so irrational when the SCGB is mentioned? As others have said, OK it is a bit middle aged and middle class - but then that's skiing. The age range on SCGB groups I've been with has been similar to, and probably even a bit lower than, courses I've been with on Alpine Coaching and Snoworks. I would say mostly in 30s and 40s. Yes, there're not a huge number of 20-something cool doods in there, but they're not generally up for clubby-type stuff anyway, and they're also not an obvious majority here either! I've skied with the occasional hooray there, but probably fewer than I've seen generally in resort - and while some are right royal PITAs, if you can ditch your own class prejudices, some of them have been huge fun! And this "representative body" thing is again so out of date. IIRC it was ditched from the "mission statement" over 10 years ago, and it's primarily DG who keeps on raising it - because he doesn't have anything from within the last 10 years to contribute. It's a far from perfect organisation, but if people are going to criticise it, at least do so on the basis of fact, not out-of-date misconceptions.
This continual chippiness really is incredibly tedious, so please grow up and GET OVER IT!
(But I don't really see why the whole issue was raised over here in the first place).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Morrissey wrote: |
| Is there actually anyone under the age of 60 that is a member of the SCGB? |
This one.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
If only you'd asked that question last year (or up to 27 years ago) I could have said "and me".
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Agenterre wrote: |
I'm an old fart .. my only exposure to the SKGB it the senseless, rude, personalised kicking of shoite out of fellow SKGB members that has happened on this forum. Gawd knows ( and why would I want to be a member after that gratuous self-flagellation) what their behaviour is like behind their own walls. Why would anyone want to find out ?
Not a SCGB-bashing bash, personalised reactions to (some of) their members' behaviour here which one can only assume is representative of the organisation itself.. |
Well that is where you are wrong.
At the AGM they are all well behaved. Adversaries on here can be seen discussing things in a civil fashion.
Some harrumphing from the men in suits about particular items on the agenda, but no more than you would get in any organisation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Latchigo, that's presumably because anonymity confers the freedom to behave badly, no?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Hurtle, The posters I am thinking of know one another anyway so I am not sure what you mean by anonymity. Maybe it is face to face contact.
If they have continued their disagreements, they have done so in private out of earshot of others.
GrahamN sums things up fairly well and he has been at those same AGMs
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Latchigo,
| Quote: |
Maybe it is face to face contact.
|
Yes, sorry, I think I do mean that. But also anonymity vis-a-vis the readership at large. And my point - and I think Agenterre's - is that some Ski Club members unfortunately do not continue their disagreements in private/out of earshot of others, they do so tiresomely and , for the most part, anonymously on here. You can of course see this about to play out on another thread (two other threads now, I see.)
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Hurtle, There used to be the same conflicts on the SCGB forums too. Less posters though which made the in-fighting more obvious.
In person though it is a different story. People treat one another better.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Latchigo, yep. I think that's called cowardice.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
Agenterre, yes, agreed all round.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
[in answer to Boredsurfing's silently asked question about what is going on...]
I really don't know 
I stepped in on this thread - after a few months away from this forum - sad to see the usual snide and chippy remarks about the club, and the absolutely disgusting one or two on the environmental matters thread. This thread appears to have been started by someone totally unknown to me to counter the rather misleading impression given on AE's site. Yet we have the same pathetic canards trotted out again.
And as for Agenterre - he acknowledges he knows lots of reasonable ski club members with whom he has skied yet chooses to label only the negative aspects of behaviour as contributing to his perception of the club...
Graham N had it spot on, and you Hurtle are (not for the first time) doing some stirring.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Sun 31-05-09 21:39; edited 2 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
stoatsbrother, Apologies, I was about to type a post and got called away. When I came back I saw I must have submitted by accident and so I then deleted the post. You would think I could use this software by now 
I was simply going to ask if you could shed any light on what was going on?
A bit pedestrian now.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
stoatsbrother, ah, back to rap me over the knuckles de haut en bas again. I am merely stating my opinion that personal attacks which are made by Ski Club members (on the Club or on other members of it) on this forum are unpleasant, unnecessary and extremely tiresome. How that is stirring I am not sure. I would also direct you to my post of 19.46 on Friday - again, how that can be described as stirring, I don't know. Furthermore, nothing I have posted detracts from anything GrahamN said in his post, with which I entirely agree.
Please be so kind as to find someone else to bully.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
[quote="stoatsbrother"] "This thread appears to have been started by someone totally unknown to me to counter the rather misleading impression given on AE's site. Yet we have the same pathetic canards trotted out again."
A strange conclusion considering that I quoted the apology verbatim.
I could have gone on to quote their following innuendo if I wished to draw attention to the seemingly duplicitous nature of AEs points; but I did not because I did not wish to rub AEs noses in their own muck, as AE had tried to do (but failed) with the SCGB, hence the apology.
Unknown to you, yes; but not anonymous if anybody cares to ask.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
sahsah, not you trotting out the canards... the people trashing the club... I agree with all you have written - trouble is the minute two members agree over here - it appears to be a conspiracy
Hurtle, de haut en bas is - I think - you, on this occasion. Lachigo actually suggested that "At the AGM they are all well behaved. Adversaries on here can be seen discussing things in a civil fashion." and then "Hurtle, The posters I am thinking of know one another anyway so I am not sure what you mean by anonymity. Maybe it is face to face contact. If they have continued their disagreements, they have done so in private out of earshot of others" And then you started talking about members discussing their disagreements on snowHeads when the only disagreements in this thread were between people making trite generalisations about the club, and those defending the club. Sounds like stirring to me.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sun 31-05-09 23:21; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
stoatsbrother Your points are understood, now.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
stoatsbrother, Did you break your mountain bike or summat?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Schuss in Boots, no - I got lured back by news of the Hemel event. Probably a mistake. Maybe best to hibernate after that until the BBQ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
stoatsbrother, oh lighten up and by me a beer SATURDAY!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
(on behalf of fellow SCGB members)?
and you would die of boredom in the surgery 
Either that or intravenous red wine for the gap inbetween.. 
