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How many snowboard lessons have you had?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Rob, not always, remember on a board you have two feet to apply pressure, twist the board, push with one heel and drag back with the other etc , and some of this, whilst you may have a firm edge in the snow, is not really carving as such
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Jonny luv plums, rayscoops, thanks, lots of stuff for me to discover.
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I'm Shocked at the blindfold comment
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Rob, also I have watched the French instructors and they seem to be a bit like the Swiss and my first lessons in France was to told to rotate my upper bady and the board would follow it around, which is simply rubbish, it should have been set an edge and the board will follow it, hence why us boarders tend to sort of work through it all without having loads of lessons
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rayscoops wrote:
... hence why us boarders tend to sort of work through it all without having loads of lessons
Are there no good snowboard instructors? I've had some very bad (as well as indifferent) ski lessons which, at best, made no difference to my skiing. But then I discovered what difference good instruction could make to my skiing, and since then I've stuck with it resulting in me going from a really poor recreational skier into a much better recreational skier Smile
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Rob, I would only consider McNab unless I have had a personal recommendation
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rayscoops wrote:
Rob, I would only consider McNab unless I have had a personal recommendation

I've heard good things about Neil - are there any other (British?) boarding instructors who get good feedback?
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McNab trained instructors rather than the man himself. Do you want to borrow his book and DVD? If so PM me your address and I will post it to you
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rayscoops wrote:
McNab trained instructors rather than the man himself. Do you want to borrow his book and DVD? If so PM me your address and I will post it to you

Thanks, I'd love to see it. I'll send a MP, but no rush as I'm away for another couple of weeks.
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rob@rar wrote:
rayscoops wrote:
McNab trained instructors rather than the man himself. Do you want to borrow his book and DVD? If so PM me your address and I will post it to you

Thanks, I'd love to see it. I'll send a MP, but no rush as I'm away for another couple of weeks.


He offered to lend you the CD of his own free will , no need to send the heavies in wink
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DebbiDoesSnow, Puzzled
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
My God, McNab is really getting a good write up here!

The man is amazing (if you meet him you'll understand, it's not just his boarding but his whole view on life, fitness, fear)! However I don't think I'd get anything like I did ten years ago off his camp. I prob would from 1-to-1 tuition but I dread to think how much that would cost, his camps are the best part of a grand! Having said that I would love to desend Mont Blanc (he does a course including just that) with him but again I think I may need to remorgate the house to do that!
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Ha, spotted it! Not a Freudian slip, I assure you Laughing
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
rayscoops, I only had one lesson in 1990 in which I broke both arms and four ribs and then went on to marry the instructor rolling eyes haven't done a lot of boarding since.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
steph, cool ! Laughing
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 Poster: A snowHead
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Just had the one 50-minute lesson on my first morning on the slopes. Had it with a proper French cool dude who I think was more interested in looking at my bird's ar$e than teaching but what the hell - he got the point across and I could snowboard that day!! Smile
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DebbiDoesSnow, still makes us laugh and we have had 19 years of skiing together instead of snowboarding, maybe we should try snowboarding together again for our anniversary this year Twisted Evil
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:


stevomcd, I do not think carving is the 'be all and end all of boarding' and most boarders are simply lazy carvers (and if i had relied solely on carving I would now be dead Shocked Very Happy ), and just because a boarder does not spend all day doing prissy carved turns down the mountain it does not make them rubbish at boarding.



Can't carve, won't carve... http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

There's nothing prissy about carved turns, and I don't for a minute mean a hard-boot, full-time carving set-up. The point is more about doing decent, round turns. On a steeper gradient (a red run) this will more likely mean a dynamic skidded turn and a carve, but the turn is still "finished-off", speed is reduced by making a longer arc turn rather than just kicking the back end out and speed checking. This is more difficult/more technical to do and kicking your back foot out all the way down the hill. Is it "better"? I don't know, but it certainly demonstrates vastly superior board control, which carries over into all aspects of riding. I agree with rob@rar that there are 3 ways to steer a board (as with skis) and to be a complete boarder/skier you need to be good at all of them. If carving is tiring (and it is), get fitter!

My 99% of boarders are rubbish comment might be better expressed as "99% of boarders make long radius, long arc turns and skid to slow down 'cos they can't do short radius turns".

Quote:


Imv there are many ways of getting down the mountain and carving is just one of them, I agree there are lots of boarders who have a skiddy back foot and I would suggest they are not the most experienced, there are also lots of boarders with a strong front foot stance who are not really carving either but are nevertheless good boarders riding correctly, safely and in control imv, but riding in much more of a straight line than would be achieved in comparison with carving, sometimes I do carve but I find it quite tiresome and I personally have adopted a technique that rocks from edge to edge and is quite a 'soft foot' technique/ method, the board runs on its edge but I do not really let it follow its natural sidecut carve trajectory, a bit like riding straight on a narrow/flat track and running on an edge by twisting the board a bit.



See above! Your "straighter line than would be achieved in comparison with carving" leaves you with no other means of slowing down than speed-checking your way down the hill (i.e. kicking your back foot out).

Just hooning down the hill in a straight line as fast as I can got boring a long, long time ago, so for me it's all about making the best turns I can, there's a real buzz in the dynamic movement and acceleration of a proper turn/carve. It's often a faster way down the hill too as you maintain speed so much better. In the end though, I'd rather be in the pow any day, which is a whole other ball-game (to which, incidentally, kicking the back foot out doesn't transfer very well....)

Going on a bit here and don't mean to be getting at anyone, just finding this an interesting discussion.
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today I learnt how to approach a hill, get to the top, pop a 180, land on the tail, stall grabbing the nose, ride back down the hill. Nothing at all to do with this thread but looks a damn site cooler than carving Smile plus it seemed to confuse skiers.

stevomcd, I'm the opposite with powder, can take it or leave it, if I do take it then I rarely turn, I prefer to slow down by smashing a huge tail press with my back arm in the snow. It's official, I rock Laughing
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Jonny luv plums, rolling eyes Laughing
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stevomcd, I think you have become a skier that boards wink riding the mountain is about variation, looking for a little kicker, nipping back across the piste when you see a bit of powder, chucking in an exagerated skidded stop or turn, putting in some rocking carved turns for a while, running on one edge over some long rollers, running a long GS style carved arc and putting your hand down, switching to goofy/regular and back - it is all in there on just one blue or red and can be alternated to a bit of carving at any time Very Happy , ..... just because you do not see boarders carving down blues like robots all day long does not make them bad boarders and does not mean they can not carve.

But we digress, how many lessons have you had btw ?

btw I said carving becomes tiresome not tiring wink


Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Wed 11-03-09 11:17; edited 1 time in total
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stevomcd wrote:
On a steeper gradient (a red run) this will more likely mean a dynamic skidded turn and a carve, but the turn is still "finished-off", speed is reduced by making a longer arc turn rather than just kicking the back end out and speed checking.


and this is a good point, as a slope become steeper the opportunity to carve reduces, and on blacks and steep off piste we get in to the realms of cross over/under turns whereby the front of the board is lifted off the ground and pivoted around with the tail of the board firmly planted on the slope, or alternatively the tail of the board is simply flicked around like a skid turn, all intended to get the nose of the board across/through the fall line as quick as possible. Similarly riding moguls introduces certain difficulties for a traditional carved turn. Horses for courses I say Very Happy

Just because people do not carve all day long does not mean they can not carve or are rubbish boarders, imv Very Happy


Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Wed 11-03-09 11:22; edited 1 time in total
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this is could go the way of the leash thread Laughing
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DebbiDoesSnow, not if we stick to the OP question wink
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Its more fun to digress Twisted Evil
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rayscoops, I totally agree with you, snowboarding is about pure fun, mixing it up, it's just that most people can't do all the things you listed (particularly the carving Razz ). Where I live (Sainte Foy) we have a lot of wide, immaculately groomed runs, so big carves are loads of fun.

Sorry about the tiresome/tiring thing, my assumptions of the standard of your grammar were a bit low! Embarassed

You're wrong about cross-under turns though, a cross under turn is still focussed on the nose, the initial lift is just to steer the board uphill at the start of the turn. Even fewer people can do those well than can carve!

To answer the original question, I think maybe the equivalent of 7 or 8 days, but none at all before I'd been riding for about 7 years! Completely self-taught, not even anyone better to ride with to give me a few pointers, not a book, video, nothing! Not the approach I'd recommend for anyone starting from scratch.

And I resent the skier comment! Mad Toofy Grin Skiing is fun too though Cool
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
stevomcd wrote:
You're wrong about cross-under turns though, a cross under turn is still focussed on the nose, the initial lift is just to steer the board uphill at the start of the turn. Even fewer people can do those well than can carve!


isn't that what I said Puzzled lifting the nose? actually I think a valid point though is whether boarders who are not carving properly are aware that they are not doing so, rather than just being lazy, so we will not know if all the/us skidders are just pants or just lazy wink

I am sure we all want to master the best technique possible, whether we have lessons or not. I have actually had quite a few days boarding with an instuctor friend and of course a few tips were discussed, and I have also been boarding with boarders who have had lessons and have passed on what they have been told, and I also watch others having lessons because I am a tight git, but I do not consider boarding to be hugely technical (after mastering basic and good technique) and it is easy to pick up a little tip or two, so whilst it seems a lot of boarders do not formally go out and sign up for lessons, I am sure there is this natural 'continual boarding development' that takes place.

sorry about the skier comment, well out of order by me wink
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Been a good thread this.

I had never realised I did cross under turns until I read about them here. I've never had any lessons.

As a result of this thread, I ordered Neil McNabs book for a mate that is coming away with me in 2 weeks. It looks very good although its written for goofy riders so would need some translation for us Reggies.
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bar shaker wrote:
Been a good thread this.

I had never realised I did cross under turns until I read about them here........


neither did i Laughing
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I think i would fall over if I tried to do that on purpose
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DebbiDoesSnow, best to do it by accident in that case wink just like bar shaker, Very Happy
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rayscoops, I am certainly not aware of doing the cross under as I do try to carve as much as possible (probably because I used to ski !) but the back foot flicky round thing i have been guilty of at the end of the day on a tight spot Embarassed

Good way to evaluate your technique is filming it. I am very aware of my stance after seeing it on video, still suffering from spaz back arm every now and then but I do look a lot more relaxed.

I think i might have a lesson on my next trip as I seemed to struggle last time with straight lining on my heel edge, I always veer off to the left, yet I have no problem on my toe edge.

There is always room for improvement wink
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DebbiDoesSnow, the 'kick the back end around' technique is a good get out of jail card, especially on moguls, in slush etc where carving is somewhat restricted. Straight lining on the toe side is easier because you can get your weight over the edge naturally, on the heel it is not quite the case and I tend to push my front heel across/in to the board and pull my rear foot heel away from the board - it fights the natural side-cut route the board wants to follow. Might I also suggest that you, ... err...., push your knees apart and drive your feet outwardly against the sides of each of your boots - it has a similar effect Very Happy

edit - before the technique police come knocking - no idea if this is a good technique but it works for me Very Happy
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rayscoops, are you telling me to get me legs open Shocked Laughing

I do ride duck, but i think my bindings weren't far apart last time so next trip (fingers crossed for a couple of weeks) will be pushing them out a bit
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rayscoops, where do you think you are BZK? technique police indeed.
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DebbiDoesSnow, maybe, feet further apart would perhaps give you more leaverage Very Happy where are you hoping to go ?
rogg, sorry Very Happy
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rayscoops, Hi! Bit of a late-comer to this thread but I kind of agree with everyone so far on both sides of the argument. I started boarding 13 years ago when intermediate and advanced lessons didn't seem to exist so I had to learn by trial and error after the first week. A week with UCPA later on helped but it was all "face the direction you want to go" technique. Did the McNab DVD/book before I went out this year which helped reduce my skid turns.

My take, FWIW, is that the "learn it all in 3 days" mentality leads people to believe that that's all they need to know. It encourages bad habits as the EASIEST way to get down isn't always the best.
I think there are a lot of boarders out there get down runs ok with poor or mediochre technique, but struggle as it gets steeper. Thats why you still don't see many boaders on steep black stuff or moguls.

As for the answer? Dunno! Lots of hill time with the occasional lesson would be ideal but how can you tell if the instructor will be any good unless you get a personal recommendation? And it seems that people haven't really decided the best techniques yet. With several different techniques out there I guess the perfect solution is to try them all and decide for yourself. That's what I'm trying to do!
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rayscoops, its not a case of where, more if the circumstances allow
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DebbiDoesSnow,

I also veer left (I ride regular) when on my heel side. I put it down to my feet putting more pressure towards the centre of the board and reducing the radius of the arc shape, of the edge of the board. On toe side, my pressure points are wider and nearer the widest part of the board, so affect the radius length less.

I am also less happy allowing a bit of front foot slip when on my heels and tend to ride with equal amounts of edge angle or more at the front.
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rayscoops, pushing the knees apart (especially on heel-side) is good advice (works well for carving too! Toofy Grin )

I was up at Tignes today, great piste conditions, practising some nice, tight, short radius carves when I got hit from behind by a skier. Edge of his ski smashed through the edge of my board, delammed the base and top sheet and took a hefty chunk out of the core. It is now an ex-board. Sad Made me think of this thread for some reason.

Anyone got a Burton Air 161 they don't want? Rode only long, stiff boards for years, then got the Air last year for messing around on and really fell in love with it. Great board. RIP.
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