 Poster: A snowHead
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, are you trying to argue that fat skis are better on piste that narrow skis? Or are you trying to argue that it makes no difference as fat skis are just as good as narrow skis, therefore go for the fat ones because they will give you a bit of extra float off piste?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
Get no quicker when skiing my 103mm or 63mm skis from the top to the bottom of the GM.
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It's just a compromise. What's actually wrong with a decent pair of 80 mm waist AM skis for an average skier spending 90% of their time on piste and the other 10% on easy off-piste? Especially if they're fairly light as well. If the focus is more off piste then yeah why not go wider. But the wider you go the slower they are changing edges, particularly in short radius turns on hard pistes. They are generally harder to improve your basic technique on. Looking around the average piste, most skiers you see on fattish AM skis are just skidding around anyway and would probably benefit significantly from a better piste ski. |
I don't know which pistes you guys are skiing on but on the ones I ski on, most skiers (whether on fattish AM or skinnies or fatties or anything) are just skidding around fullstop. Now, like I say, maybe they've given up trying to devp better piste technique but they sure need it and IMO an 80mm ski even with a deep sidecut will hold them back unless they're wide footed and heavy. I'm not big/heavy so I'm very conscious of how fat someone light really needs to get good off piste float.
| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| uktrailmonster, Nothing wrong with it in theory, but a wider ski will make it easier and require a less adaptive technique, perhaps then the percentage of time spent off piste might increase?????????? |
Not everyone can only have fun off piste. This may be a bit of a revelation for you but some people actually enjoy being on the piste. Actually l think the large majority of skiers enjoy being on a piste. What's wrong with enjoying doing slalom radius carved turns? If they were easier to do on 100mm skis we'd see them in the WC.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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slikedges, So it's not just me that finds SZK a bit of a tool then 
On the big/heavy thing I'm 85kg and have no trouble "floating" on 70 mm skis. My wider skis (100 mm) are a bit easier to ski off-piste but the difference was not much of a revelation. Certainly not of the order some people would have you believe. If people find it difficult to ski off-piste on 80 mm skis they'd benefit a lot more from lessons than a fatter pair of skis.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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uktrailmonster, now then now then then now, play nice 
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I used to ski on 205 Force 9s, skinny as they come, I moved onto XScreams, a little wider, then 2 years ago moved onto Missions (88cm underfoot???).
They work loads better off piste, on piste in lumps, bumps and spring slush. They work fine on ice, you just need to remember to get them on edge...
I had a pair of slalom skis, I took them on holiday, had a hoot on piste, then my mates took me off piste in some nice spring snow. It wasn't easy when the snow turned trick. I sold 'em and now just take one pair away with me......
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| ash1098 wrote: |
| Hey folks, been looking into getting new skis (blew an edge on old carvers ), I want to start venturing off-piste a bit but can only afford one pair so am thinking all-mountain skis are the best bet. |
The small manufacturers are the best. Liberty, High Society, possibly White Dot Freeride. I'd say forgot the "big boys".
If you must go "mainstream" then I'd personally look at Scott or Volkl.
I've got Liberty Hazmats for exactly what you describe.
Get something around 90mm underfoot. Or more. Dead easy to ski at that width. Your ability sounds well up to it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Someone said it earlier, you ski on the ski that helps you the most of the terrain you ski the most..
so if you ski mostly off-piste..and I am not talking about the side of, here...you'll use a 90mm plus ski, or pretty much in that region as it will be of use.
You'll be able to gun bigger lines and bin the little s's that you used to do.. and aspired to. You will, of course, retain this skill but you will be having so much fun that when you go back to the
piste to catch the next lift up to your next OP line... you might realise that the ski isn't the greatest there and you might look a a bit clumsy...or more so that you would have thought you wanted to...and you might find that 90mm isn't the best hacking down a very fast red... but all round, you'll love it because it gives you the thrills where you want them most..in the deep stuff..which reading this forum 90% of people aspire to..  ballpark, maybe, but still
I have read some posters with not many weeks say they want to get into more off-piste. I am not knocking that, but be a bit more realistic, if it were that easy, we'd all be doing it....
You will use the best tool for the job for 90% of what you ski..and then suffer the shortfalls of that ski when you ski the other 10% ... you will accept this because you will have learnt what does best, where
You'll soon work it out
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I went from 68mm to 89mm this year and love it..the only thing I've lost is being able to blat down ice steep blacks at 80km+ as the edge hold isn't there and the skis get a bit flappy..but its opened up so much more that I'm not to bothered. I can now ski park, pipe, piste, side piste and off piste at more enjoyable speectrum then I could on the 68mm.. and after two weeks on the skis reckon could go a bit fatter without losing much on piste.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| papasmurf wrote: |
| ..the only thing I've lost is being able to blat down ice steep blacks at 80km+ as the edge hold isn't there . |
........ the edge is still there and if the ski has a decent sidecut there is no reason it shouldn't have a good edge hold.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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JT the only bit I disagree with is the "...very fast reds.." bit. You just have to adapt your technique to include sining Wagner a la Apocalypse Now whilst you ski...
da da da DAHHH da, dah da da DAHHH DAAAAA, dah da da DAAAAA!!
We'll pick up those edges and drop them right where you want them. Air Cav, son 
I really need to get back to the alps, I clearly have a problem.
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maybe the edges need a service, but i find it just judders and doesn't grip as brutally as my other skis, which i put down to beinga more flexy ski and slightly less length
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You know it makes sense.
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| kitenski wrote: |
| papasmurf wrote: |
| ..the only thing I've lost is being able to blat down ice steep blacks at 80km+ as the edge hold isn't there . |
........ the edge is still there and if the ski has a decent sidecut there is no reason it shouldn't have a good edge hold. |
Torsional flexion will reduce the edge grip. More likely to happen with a wide ski than a narrow ski. I find it much more difficult to manage edge control on a fat ski because the increased distance from the centre of the force that I'm pushing down through my leg. I think this is described as critical edge angle by Ron LeMaster (p.19 if you have his book).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Cunners, well, new skis..thats my line atm...
But seriously, I will have to make a few changes..I don't want a tail spin at 40-50kph... or whatever speed it is.... it will likely hurt muchly
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Poster: A snowHead
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Here's a question - if I want to buy skis to downhill on and off piste, aswell as tour on skins, what's the optimum width underfoot? Would 90 - 100 hinder skinning?
Cheers
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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i tour on 92, no bother. wide doesnt necessarily mean heavy
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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barry, cheers, weight was my main fear.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| barry wrote: |
| i tour on 92, no bother. wide doesnt necessarily mean heavy |
Yeah true, my 100s are lighter than my 83s.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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bvgger^3. So we have a fab old day hooning around Monterosa yesterday (never have I seen such snow there, 1m on the house roof & terrace) and the Dobies were magnificent.
Today, somewhat hungover after an EXCELLENT meal at the EXCELLENT Le Sapin, (Ciao Franco) we pootled to Antognod to check out its off piste potentials for a post-dump day (and they are most promising). For my last run, we thought to head through the windblown crud under the chair. Not.A.Good.Idea.
What do reckon is best for crud then??
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| under a new name wrote: |
| What do reckon is best for crud then?? |
A straight line, or an afternoon in the bar.
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rob@rar, neither an acceptable alternative!!
No, really, I want a recommendation for a good ski for; windblown powder tracks, crud, breakable crust?? Anyone?
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Something soft-ish, straight-ish and semi-rockered, then. Obsethed?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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under a new name, DP or Pro..something to crash through...you either haver to be light enough to stay on top or smash through it..IMV
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| under a new name wrote: |
rob@rar, neither an acceptable alternative!!
No, really, I want a recommendation for a good ski for; windblown powder tracks, crud, breakable crust?? Anyone? |
Volkl Mantra. They SMASH all that stuff.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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JT, it'll be the DP then...
So far, my line up of skis that I want to test that may get past my curmudgeonly filter;
DP Pro
Mantra
Head Monster (something)
I am prejudiced against Dynastar
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| under a new name wrote: |
rob@rar, neither an acceptable alternative!!
No, really, I want a recommendation for a good ski for; windblown powder tracks, crud, breakable crust?? Anyone? |
Yep Head Monsters are pretty good at that, power through anything. Try the trusty iM82
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Just taken the iM82's around everything I could throw at them, on-piste groomers, deeps, steeps, moguls, crud, ice.
Have this year gone from a 68 waist to the 82 and I was a little apprehensive of them handling a decent carve on-piste. No worries there, despite the fact I'm 5'4" and these are the 172 - they turn like they're on rails and good and damp.
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You know it makes sense.
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uktrailmonster, It's not so much powering through anything - it's the re-frozen cut up hard crap that was less than comfortable. I have my list. Maybe try the Head's as my favourite shop has a fine supply.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| under a new name wrote: |
No, really, I want a recommendation for a good ski for; windblown powder tracks, crud, breakable crust?? Anyone? |
My Kneissl Tanker will go through pretty much anything and treat attempted deflections with the disdain of a windscreen hitting a fly...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| under a new name wrote: |
| No, really, I want a recommendation for a good ski for; windblown powder tracks, crud, breakable crust?? Anyone? |
Can't believe the Pimpmaster General Arno hasn't been along to suggest Legend Pros or LP XXLs yet 
Best advice: find a few models you like then test them!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Alex A, I was going to be slightly cheeky about why you bought a very powder specific ski but live in Kent? Do let me/us know, I'm not so big on the DP+ as a concept but I do like the "ordinary" Pro.
horizon, too wide...woo tide...
Sideshow_Bob, I have my list. BD's might also need to be added. Maybe.
Maybe I just needed more length, as the actress said to the bishop. If it didn't look like a pow weekend I'd see how the 191 GSs feel again. Hey ho. Decisions, decisions.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Alex A, I had better check out for myself. And may need to make that acquisition if I won't be able to next year.
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