 Poster: A snowHead
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Hey folks, been looking into getting new skis (blew an edge on old carvers ), I want to start venturing off-piste a bit but can only afford one pair so am thinking all-mountain skis are the best bet.
I've narrowed it down to the Blackeye's (regular or Ti?), Watea 78's, and K2 apache series, all in low 170cm lengths. Just wondered what your guys opinions where on the best choice out of these for someone of my ability and weight? and also do you think low 170's is a bit on the short side?
I'm 6'2", 160-170lb, probably a lvl 7 or 8. Mostly want to ski med-long radius turns on piste, but venture off-piste now and again...
Thanks!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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ash1098, welcome to Snowheads 
I'm i exactly the same boat as you (in terms of ability & ambition) so i'd be interested to see what advice you're given. So far, my shortlist consists of:
Scott Neo
K2 Apache Recon
Salomon XW Tornado Ti (maybe a bit too pistey?)
Fischer Progressor 8
I'm 5'10'' so a little shorter than you and i'm looking at the low 170's too. Maybe I should go the shorter side of 170?
Cheers
Kersh
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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think you need to be looking longer for all mountain to make it worthwhile for off piste
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Do you think high 170's be enough? Considering I would still be using them on piste more often...
and also have you ever tried any of the skis above?
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i use fischer rx 8 175 and atomic nomad crimson at 176 I'm about 6'3 and about 15st. atomic nomad crimson is an excellent mid fat and worth adding to your trial list.
if you worth going for a one ski quiver see if you can get hold of fischer amc 79 - you might get that at good price i changed from amc to the atomic as the atomics were fatter and i had the rx8s for on piste, amc 79 was great on piste i was possibly a tad heavy ( and crap for using off piste).
i think optimally for off piste use prob should go a bit longer 180/183
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| ash1098 wrote: |
Do you think high 170's be enough? Considering I would still be using them on piste more often...
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Probably at your 160-170 lb weight. Wouldn't go any shorter though unless you ski very slowly. I'm 6'1", 190 lb and got a pair of Head Monster iM72s in 177 (which are toward the piste end of all mountain). Also got Monster iM82s in 183 (middle of the road all mountain) and Line Prophet 100s in 186 (off-piste end of all mountain)
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Ok thanks guys, think I'll get a longer length now. I've found the blackeye ti's and crimsons for around the same price, do you guys think I could handle either of these? A bit concerned as I've skied on streetracers for the last three years, they were really bad at high speed but really easy to initiate turns with. So not sure I could mange these, but then I want something I can still use as I improve...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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All-mountain ski..?? I'd be looking at 85-90mm
Stockli XXL's types
Movement Thunder
Kastle MX88
can all be used a a 50-50, IMV... and should be around 180cms...nothing much below that in lenght.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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hey Kersh,
sorry would love to join you at castleford but I've got a broken arm, so am just sitting around at the moment 
Will be interested to know how you get on with the skis though, have fun at Xscape!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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JT, you're not the first person to have recommended fatter skis. I have a friend who reckons I should be looking at some 85-90 planks too. However, i've tried to ski off piste and need lessons so it's important that the ski performs on the piste.
I've said that providing I can use them on the piste then i'll buy as fat as I can go .... but there must be a line that needs to be drawn and i'm not too sure about going proper fat. I have considered the K2 Apache Explorer but people who know my ability (enjoy fast on piste, rubbish on bumps, wannabe powder man) say that unless i'm serious about going off piste, I should look elsewhere.
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| Kersh wrote: |
JT, you're not the first person to have recommended fatter skis. I have a friend who reckons I should be looking at some 85-90 planks too. However, i've tried to ski off piste and need lessons so it's important that the ski performs on the piste.
I've said that providing I can use them on the piste then i'll buy as fat as I can go .... but there must be a line that needs to be drawn and i'm not too sure about going proper fat. I have considered the K2 Apache Explorer but people who know my ability (enjoy fast on piste, rubbish on bumps, wannabe powder man) say that unless i'm serious about going off piste, I should look elsewhere. |
I agree on fatter skis. Seriously dude a 90mm ski is NOT fat and will easily perform on piste. Anything up to 100mm imo is no problem on piste. Ive been skiing a volkl mantra at 94mm for a while now and have had literally no problems with these on piste. "Proper fat is 120mm+ imo. 
Go wider and you wont regret it. Scott punishers are a great piste ski at 89mm i believe.
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You know it makes sense.
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sps89, in that case, i'll give them a go and see how I get on. 90+ waist skis just look huge!!!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I've skied 103s on piste and they've been fine, really good in the moguls too. I'm 5'10" and 73kg and find 177's to suit me well. Just bought that length with a 98 waist and they are the most all round fun ski that I've found.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
i use fischer rx 8 175 and atomic nomad crimson at 176 I'm about 6'3 and about 15st. atomic nomad crimson is an excellent mid fat and worth adding to your trial list
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Hey dan100 what're the nomad crimson's like on piste, how well do they perform on ice, hard pack etc? Also what's the rebound like?
btw can anyone comment on the difference between the neox and XTO bindings?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Kersh wrote: |
| sps89, in that case, i'll give them a go and see how I get on. 90+ waist skis just look huge!!! |
You wont regret it.
The Line Prophet 90 is 90mm underfoor (duh) and absolitely rails on groomers. I think you can get the 07/08 for around 250. Awesome ski.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| ash1098 wrote: |
Hey dan100 what're the nomad crimson's like on piste, how well do they perform on ice, hard pack etc? Also what's the rebound like?
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I find them absolutely HATEFUL. Rebound? Can't speak to the rebound, they have to grip first in order to get rebound. The flex and ice grip is comparable to about that of a Metron 9. UGH! Pretty embarassing that a 176cm Crimson doesn't have the grip of a 157cm Metron 10. Shudder. Never again.
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comprex,
ohh..and what with a 3 degree edge as well..????
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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comprex, really? I have the 176 Crimsons (they were cheap and would have no second thoughts about throwing them on e-bay), and actually liked them a lot! The soft flex does not pack a lot of rebound, but they were stable and they held well on ice. When the edge bites into the ice they do display a weird trepidation that put me off at first, but after getting used to it, I had no problems getting them to grip. I liked them on piste, but they are not a carving machine like the Metrons (Atomics line is less "carvey" all around this year - probably a good thing for the recreational skier). To be fair, I miss a more powerfull ski (in the Head Monster vein), but i find that the crimsons are easier to drive in short turns. So, i'm keeping them
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| sps89 wrote: |
| Kersh wrote: |
| sps89, in that case, i'll give them a go and see how I get on. 90+ waist skis just look huge!!! |
You wont regret it.
The Line Prophet 90 is 90mm underfoor (duh) and absolitely rails on groomers. I think you can get the 07/08 for around 250. Awesome ski. |
Just be careful not to get carried away here. Line Prophets are great, I have a pair of Prophet 100s. But I spend 90% of my time out in BC skiing fresh powder. I don't ski much on hardpack, but when I do I find the Prophets are a bit limited. They can carve long GS turns ok, but anything shorter on a steep pitch and they're nowhere compared to my Head Monsters (either 72s or 82s). I haven't tried Prophet 90s and I'm sure they are better on-piste than the 100s, but I'd bet my Monsters would pee all over them on hardpack.
If you want to develop technique on and off piste I'd go for something a bit narrower with more of an on-piste bias. Head Monster 78s would be worth a serious look, or 82s like mine if you want a bit more float. Or other similar skis from other brands.
Just my 2p worth based on your skier profile comments.
Edit: notice he used the word "dude" earlier. Dudes won't be seen dead on anything under 90mm 
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I've just bought some Volkl AC30s in 177 ( I'm 6'1" and the (very) thick end of 15st ) as i was looking to spend a little bit more time off piste - not back country you understand, but more between pistes, that sort of thing..... Having just returned from Austria having experienced some of the most amazing conditions i think i have ever skied, i would thoroughly recommend the Volkls. Although a heavy ski, they are easy to initiate (could be my weight ), are quick from edge to edge and i really noticed the stiffness accelerating me out of turns.... In terms of the off piste performance, my 'knowledge' is limited as i haven't done much of this type of skiing but what i did notice was how much better they seemed to float compared to my previous 'skinny' piste skis. It was definitely easier to make turns in the soft stuff and i guess this is because they were riding higher in the snow. Why not give them a try ?........
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Neo!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I've just come back from the first week on my Volkl Mantras. We had well over 100cms of snow during the week and spent most of the time in the off-piste. On the last day there was nearly 2ft of fresh on the piste which was amazing. I have to say that the Mantras were AWESOME! They gave plenty of float in the deep stuff, the were very stable on the groomed stuff and really gave a lot of confidence in the varied, choppy stuff i.e. from tracked powder to mini bumps and mound of snow. They just bashed through the lot and allowed you to keep your technique throughout the run. The only criticism is they were pretty tiring in the 3pm bumps, but then we're always tiring by then and these weren't designed to be good for this anyway.
Now I have skied the Apache Recons for the last two years (and the Crossfire's the year before that) and they don't come anywhere near the Mantra's. I was in love with the K2 range and wouldn't consider anything else. I then decided to try the Salomon Lords, Scott Crusade, K2 Apache Explorer and the Mantra's. The Mantra's and the Explorers had the best feel but last week's experience on the Mantra's just blew me away. My off-piste skiing was raised hugely to the point where it made me feel like a powder hero, if any ski makes you feel like that it's got to be worth telling everyone else about!
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sugardaddy, funny you should say, I went from the Crimson to a (shorter!) SugarDaddy and found every bit of the grip I was looking for. I did give up a hint of compliance in moguls, but it was well worth it, IMO.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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PowderHunter, Fischer Wateas beat Mantras this year, spank them silly imo esp. in bumpy stuff. Katanas, OTOH, now those are something else
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Right after listening to everyone here, think I'm gonna go with a narrower waist, maybe the blackeyes, recons (or explorers), or the head monsters probably in high 170's cm.
Still interested in the blackeye ti's though, has anyone skied on these before?
Also What do you guys think, how would the crimson 86mm width, but 2 cm shorter (176cm) compare to the thinner (79mm width) longer 178 cm blackeye both on and off piste? Am I right in saying the only other difference is the flexibility?
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| Quote: |
PowderHunter, Fischer Wateas beat Mantras this year, spank them silly imo esp. in bumpy stuff
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Comprex what width wateas are you talking about? I was thinking the 84's would be a good all rounder... What are they like on piste though?
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You know it makes sense.
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comprex, any thoughts on the Crimson Ti versus the old crimson.... I am thinking about a pair for telemarking and as my main off piste friendly type ski using VIST interchangable bindings im stuck with.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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ash1098, 94s. There are a LOT of guys using them on icey piste on my home hill, esp. when the fresh has been mostly scraped off. One of them posted some video here: http://vimeo.com/3086479
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Poster: A snowHead
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skimottaret, sorry, no.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I don't think a good all-mountain ski, that excells over all types of terrain, exists. They are all a compromise of sorts.
So, my view is that you look to the terrain you are weakest on, and get a ski that performs well there. That's on the basis that your stronger skills on the other terrain will make up for the skis lack of performance there, but you get more equipment assistance where you need it.
So in which type of skiing do you wish to improve most?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Or, conversely, get a ski that's an absolute hoot in the terrain you like the most and don't sweat the rest.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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..true, whatever floats yer boat.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Timberwolf, i have the same skis and find them similar to you. very grippy and load up well on piste in bigger turns.. nice off piste as well.
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He also said he wanted to ski mostly on piste. He weighs 160-170 lbs. He's not a skiing god. Doesn't sound like he needs anything wider than 80 mm for a genuinely good all mountain compromise. He will be able to venture off piste on such ridiculously narrow skis too
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hey all, I've been thinking... !
In your opinion how much harder is it to initiate turns on a 70-80mm width ski compared to a dedicated carver. I'm asking this because my last pair of skis were carvers with a 66mm waist...
Does anyone know of any good carving skis/groomers that will still tolerate skiding, quick turns down the fall line and maybe a few inches of fresh snow?
Thanks again!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I have the Scott Punisher and in 182 it would be a good choice for you IMO. They are quite soft though so it depends on whether that is your type of ski.
If I was going to replace them with anything it would probably be the Volkl Bridge. The Mantra is much stiffer and generally harder work from what I have heard, it is supposed to be very good though and is a bit wider.
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Nordica Enforcer.
Do people STILL believe in skis around 90mm hinder piste performance with a modern technique, does sidecut mean nothing? I guess not if your knees are still riveted together and you skid turns. Wakey Wakey.
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FAQ
Saving judgement until i've had them on my feet.
