 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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From my sad point of view, this is a really interesting thread, a terrible conspiracy!!! I accept that there may not be pores but i really think wax is needed to smooth out and lubricate the base... any more info on this one?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There are pores. Ya heard o' "structure" y'all?
That's why hot waxing and boxes work; the ickle holes open up a wee bit to let in a tad more wax.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Mosha Marc wrote: |
There are pores. Ya heard o' "structure" y'all?
That's why hot waxing and boxes work; the ickle holes open up a wee bit to let in a tad more wax. |
I was told that the bases are like a sponge and that hot waxing will opened up the pores so that the wax can soak in more. Equally, after waxing this is why you don't throw your planks out in the cold/snow as the pores contract too quickly (forcing out some of the wax you have worked hard to get in them)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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To be honest, if you look at a pair of skis that need waxing then you'll see the structure - a kind of pattern of grooves cut into the base material. That's wot y'need to hold the wax in.
That's also why you scrape off the wax lying on the surface - you only want it to be in the structure.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Mosha Marc, then you brush the wax out of the structure? I thought you needed the structure to be clear in order to avoid hydrophilic suction (or whatever the term is).
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Mosha Marc, not sure about wanting wax in the structre, isnt that what the brushes do take it out of the structure? the way it was explained to me was that the structure is like the groooves on your tyres and allows the water to flow better under the ski and stop the ski from feeling sticky against the surface.
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rob@rar, I was trying to make it overly simple, rumbled 
There are pores other than the structure - but you can't see them. Ski bases are porous, being endowed at the factory press with microscopic holes. The aim is not to ski on a visible layer of wax, rather to ski on a wax-impregnated base. Surface wax does nothing except create friction, as you say, which is why you scrape it off.
Also, the pattern of structure can be varied to cope with conditions. Your skis need to ride on a film of water produced from the friction of your base and edges cutting through the snow. In cold, dry snow the structure should be fine and shaped to hold water a little longer under your ski since so little is available under these conditions. On cold crystalline snow, the ski base should be as smooth as possible so the points of friction are minimized. On amorphous, wet snow, a coarser structured ski base is better to minimize the points of friction. Pockets of air between the ski base and the snow means that water is repelled from the ski base reducing the breaking effect. In warm, wet snow the idea is to move the water away from the base and reduce suction.
Nowt to it really.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| rjs wrote: |
| Most racing is done on artificial snow so I can't see the need for something like Polar-X indoors over waxes designed for the typical temperature range found in a snowdome. |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| rjs, that's an interesting point. I know my bases dry out much quicker indoors than they do in resort. I was shocked at how grey and dry my skis were after three or four days skiing. |
If junior is training indoors, or if we have a session at CFe (or more likely Hemel in future  ), I will tend to use CH4 rather than Polar X which I'll scrape smooth (i.e. take out any 'ridges', but not take it off completely) and brush to put a bit of structure into it. The snow than takes care of the rest while we're skiing.
For his race skis, they need to be fast from the word go, so I'll use the same wax, but scrape it right back, structure with brush/pad then a layer of Zardoz. Seems to work.....
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I used to use Polar X indoors as it seemed to be the only one that'd stay on the ski for a two hour session!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
Ski bases are porous, being endowed at the factory press with microscopic holes.
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Mosha Marc, you sure?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I am no tribologist (I wish I knew more) so, instead, I use the power of t'internet and look for the work of others who have studied this field more closely.
For example, from the licentiate thesis of Leonid Kuzmin from the Lulea University of Technology in Sweden entitled Investigation of the most essential factors influencing ski glide, available here:
http://epubl.luth.se/1402-1757/2006/03/LTU-LIC-0603-SE.pdf
| starting page 8 wrote: |
Mantra number 1 - the ski base is porous, and we have to melt in glide waxes many times to impregnate the ski base.
<snip>
Conclusion 1 There are no pores in the ski base, or these pores are smaller than 1A (the approximate dimension of a water molecule). Hence, no penetration of the glide wax into the ski base is possible. After scraping and brushing, only very small amounts of glide wax cover the ski running surface as an adhesion film. |
I am prepare to believe that the surface is covered in microscopic tears and scratches that look white and fluffy without a coating of wax. And that repeated waxing will do a better job of filling them in. After all, if we rub down some dark paintwork in order to key it the result is light and 'fluffy'. We don't believe that we have introduce pores into which the new paint can adhere. As Kuzmin points out, water molecules are much smaller than those of any component of glide wax. If the ski bases were porous to wax they'd be sopping with water too.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Thu 24-09-09 20:24; edited 1 time in total
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| Mosha Marc, you sure? |
I was.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Sat 26-09-09 12:51; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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I dont know about wax, but the snow at Hemel today (day off!) was icy as b*ggery in places compared to normal. Either that or the hire skis need a good service - there was just no edge at all on those things. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I asked my mate if there are pores in ski bases and got this response
"Yeah coz ultra high weight polyethylene is crystalline therefore has pores and is a good material to absorb wax lol now boobs ... "
He is doing a phd in ski base design, i have decided to trust him
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
He is doing a phd in ski base design
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and i thought i was a ski geek 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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FAQ
