 Poster: A snowHead
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Well i am currently in Wengen and have not been taught to rotate the shoulders, this may be due to the fact that my lessons have been with the Privat ski school and the DHO adults course.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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JT, The OP of this thread!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Megamum, well..now it is out in the open, you can concentrate on getting rid of it....
It is all very well taking on instruction about this and that...but you have to know where you are trying to go...and reaslising that you don't want that shape or turn is a good start.
It amazes me how many people don't know how they need to stand in their boots/skis...so can't find that stance very easily at all, when it gets tougher...
Get the right picture in your head of your stance and refer to it as often as poss when skiing...
That is where Video is so good..as no-one likes the reality of the playback..
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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JT, I don't know about getting rid of it, but I shall be probably be paranoid about doing it!!
We will be taking the video!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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riverman, for all I know, the DHO organises the teachers through the Skischool, BUT the chosen teachers are usually the BASI qualified brits working for ski school 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Ronald, Back to lungostyle's rant!! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ccl, that very gripe has been expressed to me by our (I can't remember now whether it was the current or previous) top ranked lady racer .
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I think their bums look great. (I'd have said that a number of genepies to the worse or otherwise). 
Have I yet mentioned my thoughts of Julia Mancuso?
Even if she didn't look great (which she most certainly does), she's got a great name anyway...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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just come back from flaine, after a heavy fall of about a foot of snow, the instructor told us to ski feet together arms outright and turn with your shoulders, and we all followed.
not very pretty, but it worked. BTW the instructor was a mature gentleman
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Just when I had subverted the thread into a consideration of ladies' bums, here we are back to shoulders. 
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ccl, Some of us are still considering the the ladies 'back bottoms' in question ... please excuse the shaky writing 
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You know it makes sense.
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| ymh wrote: |
just come back from flaine, after a heavy fall of about a foot of snow, the instructor told us to ski feet together arms outright and turn with your shoulders, and we all followed.
not very pretty, but it worked. |
Good grief! Who did he teach for. If I'm allowed a guess I'd say the ESF...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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...Epaule de Ski Français?
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Poster: A snowHead
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laundryman, it sounds like it
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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laundryman, rob@rar, .. well at least it wasn't a Brit .. x5 for the same experience (with apologies to all Brit ski instructors ( both of them) who charge decent prices 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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It's quite common for good skiers to initiate turns with their head. But rarely shoulders.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Whitegold wrote: |
| It's quite common for good skiers to inititate turns with their head. But rarely shoulders. |
But not by rotating their head! Just leading the inclination.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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rob@rar, Why bother replying? We know Whitegold, is a 12 yo with a problem ( or more)! Can someone tell me why such an obviously ill-informed troll hasn't been banned?
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Agenterre,  I thought he was being serious. If he was just trolling he stumbled on something true - I use 'leading with my head' as a mental trigger for some turns. Now I feel a complete dolt.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Agenterre, no offense taken, I just feel a bit of a fool for replying in earnest to a troll. I share your distaste for trollish behaviour.
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When I was younger we took family ski holidays in Wengen. My mum used to swing her shoulders, and was constantly being told NOT to swing her shoulders by Wengen instructors?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| ymh wrote: |
just come back from flaine, after a heavy fall of about a foot of snow, the instructor told us to ski feet together arms outright and turn with your shoulders, and we all followed.
not very pretty, but it worked. BTW the instructor was a mature gentleman |
Ok, if we have to talk about shoulders instead of ladies' bums, I am having difficulty picturing this one. Feet closer together in deeper snow I'll go with, but what was meant by "arms outright"? Out to the side like aeoroplane wings, or what? As to turning with the shoulders, it seems to me you were lucky to get away with it in deeper snow since one outcome of swinging the shoulders is surely going to be that the hips are pushed towards downhill, thereby flattening your skis and thereby increasing the chances of the snow catching them and tipping you over.
I am definitely mature and possibly a gentleman
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| lungostyle wrote: |
BUT THEY TEACH TO ROTATE THE SHOULDER.....OR JUST WATCHING THEM LOOK LIKE???? CAUSE CAN BE ALSO A MISTAKE ......HERE THERE ARE A LOT OF INSTRUCTOR SKIING WRONG.......DIFFERENT IS IF THEY EXPLIN TO DO THAT........BUT IF IT IS JUST WHEN WE CARVE AT HIGH SPEED....IT IS ALMOST CORRECT......IT IS AN OPTICAL EFFECT......CAUSE AT TOP LEVEL FOR BE 50% ON BOTH LEGS WE NEED TO HAVE THE SHOULDER PERFECTLY IN LINE WITH THE DIRECTION OF THE SKIIS.........SO CAUSE THE SKI IS TURNING LOOK LIKE WE ANTICIPATE WITH THE SHOULDER........
BUT AT LOWER LEVEL THAT IS WRONG.......BECAUSE AT THAT LEVEL OR YOU OPEN SNOUPLOUGH OR THE SKI SLIDE WITH THE BACK.......BUT WHEN YOU RACE THAT HELP A BIT......OR BETTER THE SKI GO FAST....CAUSE THE WAIT IS PERFECTLY SHARED BETWIN THE TWO LEGS........ |
Beautifully explained. I have learned something.
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You know it makes sense.
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I shan't wade through the thread - but the ski classes of children (I think being race trained) I saw in Wengen last week were not doing rotation lead turns IMV. The Chief Smiley Maker has a rock-solid skiing style, with no sign of over rotation that I can see. He was assessed as 'Black Prince' standard (just one level off as high as he could go) by a Swiss ski instructor. To sum up, over rotation does not seem to be being looked for.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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achilles, But they were doing it in all the beginners (adults) we saw last year on the nursery slopes, and also in every class I saw being instructed on the Bumps. Ronald worked there and he said they did it. What they teach their own children and what they teach the unsuspecting public appear to be 2 different things - I agree I saw a class of clearly local club kids and they were not doing it. I think you should read the thread.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Hurtle, about your anti-counter lesson. If you were being taught carving it could be very appropriate. Too much counter at the end of a turn, leaving the body facing down the falline, can auto-generate a pivoted turn initiation. It's a position called "anticipation". Staying square throughout the turn helps eliminate the anticipated position, and therefor the pivot too. When learning to carve, low edge angle turns are the starting point. In low edge turns little counter is needed to maintain proper lateral balance, so square works fine. Later, as carving skills improve and edge angles grow, more counter is needed, and can be injected back into the mix then.
Getting rid of the pivot/push is one of the biggest challenges in teaching people to carve. In my teaching I eliminate the pivot when I'm teaching steering skills, before we ever get to carving, so it's much less of an issue, and carving often just spontaneously emerges in my students skiing before I even want it to.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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FastMan, that makes total sense.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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FastMan, Sense, but 2 things spring to mind: 1) it's better to teach beginners to use the ski and therefore not pivot & push to start with, and 2) the square you are talking about is nothing to do with the squareness of so many skiers - both arms out front and equal and the whole body swinging round the turn as one unit. You are talking at a more advanced level. Hurtle, has been skiing for many years, so it makes sense that she would be too much 'face the walley'.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hurtle, any better....
COUNTER - Is a position in which the pelvis and upper body point toward the outside of the turn. Note that Counter is not a deliberate move, it happens as a result of the skier turning the skis under the body. The degree of counter is dependent on the situation the skier is in. For instance: high speed long radius turns require little or no counter to effectively carve the skis, yet skiing down a steep, narrow path the skier may end up with a large degree of counter to control their speed and line of descent.
COUNTER ROTATION - Is a turning technique in which the upper body is twisted one way while the skis are twisted the other. Overdoing counter rotation is generally not considered a good move and can result in pivoting and skidding of the skis.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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skimottaret, I think you'd better ask someone more expert. It looked OK to me the first time round!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| easiski wrote: |
| FastMan, Sense, but 2 things spring to mind: 1) it's better to teach beginners to use the ski and therefore not pivot & push to start with . |
Absolutely, yet in real life it seldom happens that way. Few skiers grow up with clean transitions. 90+++ percent adopt a falline escaping pivot and make it their default turn starter. Luckily with proper coaching it's not hard to teach people how to steer with the legs, strip away the pivot, and learn to enjoy the top of the turn acceleration period that comes with non pivoted turns.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
COUNTER - Is a position in which the pelvis and upper body point toward the outside of the turn. Note that Counter is not a deliberate move, it happens as a result of the skier turning the skis under the body. The degree of counter is dependent on the situation the skier is in. For instance: high speed long radius turns require little or no counter to effectively carve the skis, yet skiing down a steep, narrow path the skier may end up with a large degree of counter to control their speed and line of descent.
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Not bad,,, BUT: the bolded bit is a good definition of "SKIING INTO COUNTER". Counter as a whole does not carry that limitation. In fact, it's often useful and advisable to create counter manually early in the turn, and not wait to "ski into it". Skiing into counter during arc to arc turns is a higher level turn technique that benefits from higher speeds.
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FAQ
