Snow / All Season tyres, Autosocks

A snowHead

We are looking to try driving down from the UK for the first time.
I have bought snow chains off ebay for if the conditions get bad, but I don't know if I will be ok with standard tyres or whether I should be looking at Snow / All Season tyres or a pair of autosocks on top of the chains.
We are going to Morzine, therefore at least it is quite low.

Has anybody else driven with standard tyres and what have they been like?

A snowHead

You will PROBABLY be fine driving to Morzine with summer tyres, most likely the roads will be clear of snow. If you don't propose to use the car while you are there driving to higher resorts it is reasonable (in my view) to stick with the tyres you have and chains. If planning to drive around on mountain roads a lot winter tyres are a very good idea. We have driven on summer tyres with no problems, sometimes needed chains, and very occasionally really felt vulnerable without winter tyres. Because we drive frequently we now do have winter tyres for all trips which does give greater peace of mind.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

You need to Login to know who's really who.

You will be OK with summer tyres and chains. In twenty years I have only had to use chains once and that was just to get out of the appartement car park. Roads are cleared quickly and as you say Morzine is quite low.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Llew, with standard tyres and chains you'll be fine - no need to buy all season tyres or autosocks. Whilst winter and all season tyres do improve matters a lot (and are good for variable conditions) they are not as effective when the conditions get really bad as standard tyres with snowchains.

Most of the route down is of course Autoroute and the only part of the journey that might require chains is the stage of the D902 between Tanninges and Morzine itself, which takes you via Les Gets (1172m altitude if I remember correctly). This is gritted and cleared repeatedly (twice daily I think) and is a main route for a lot of traffic. Take it easy if there is snow about and on the road, and don't be afraid to use the chains if necessary, although unlikely you'll need them.

No point in taking Autosocks if you have chains.

You'll need to Register first of course.

Thanks for all the advice.
What do people do with their winter tyres if they don't regularly need them?
I know that tyres perish over time, therefore if you don't use them enough it seems so much of a waste.
Its the first time to drive, but if it goes well we may make it a regular occurance.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Llew, Unless you have the readies,stick with what you have(standard tyres and chains)Having witnessed a few 'spinning socks',don't bother...pretty useless IMV.The reality is that,for 99% of your journey,you would be unlucky to have problems(and that also goes for 99% of your visits)Should the worst happen,break out the chains(along with the gloves,kneeling mat etc)Should you decide to make a habit of it(the driving that is),when the time comes to replace your tyres,source some decent mud & snow.Dedicated winter tyres are an alpine thing.My chains are in pristine condition as,during several years of driving to the Alps,I have never even come close to fitting them.
However,the best advice is the simplest(and cheapest).Drive to the conditions and you wont go far wrong.Have a good trip snowHead

After all it is free

Llew, would agree with other posters on this thread. If you have lots of money and lots of space in your house and drive to the alps multiple times a winter, get winter tyres (I hire cars with them at least a couple of times a year and they really work). You could then also drive them in the UK over the cold months as they work better than 'normal' tyres when the temp is <7degC. IMO otherwise just drive carefully and use chains if necessary. I've driven to the hills from UK once a year for the last 5 seasons and always to much higher altitude resorts than Morzine and have never used my chains, though I practise putting them on annually (usually in snow!) and carry all the kit etc.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Llew,
Have driven lots in the alps and yes you should be alright with "normal" tyres. THe amount of snow you can drive through with chains, especially with a front wheel drive car and especially if it is quite front heavy like a diesel, is amazing. The only thing that stops you is the depth of snow either building up in front of the car or the floorpan of the car being lifted by the snow underneath or a very steep hill where you lose the downward weight on the wheels.
Having said all that, after using winter tyres for the past few years, you would not believe the difference they make. The latest ones, such as Vredestein Snowtrac 3, mean that you very rarely need chains. We use Mud & Snow on our cars, vans and trucks in the UK mainly because we live fairly high up and do have snow sometimes and we do a lot of work on fields where the difference in traction, even for a car is amazing. Winter tyres are also generally much , much more effective in heavy rain because of the tread pattern and on ice because of the tread pattern and different rubber compound. Winter tyres lose their effectiveness on snow when the tread is down to about 5mm, although they start off with a much greater depth than normal tyres, but you can still run them out over the summer.
The only downside in the summer we have found is that they can feel a bit "soft" if you corner very enthusiastically. The grip is still excellent. The other slight downside is that they can make a little more noise.
The current wisdom from the tyre industry is that normal tyres start to progressively lose their effectiveness from plus 7 degrees downwards, so in the minus sevens we got 2 weeks ago I guess they are not much use at all. The cost of winter tyres is little different from ordinary tyres but many tyre dealers are unwilling / unaware of promoting the benefits of them.
By the way I am not in the tyre trade so these are only my personal observations. Maybe there is a Snowhead in the tyre trade who would like to comment.
One final thing, if you have a "sporty" car with wide wheels / restricted clearance make sure you can get chains that do fit.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

We put the winter tyres on at the start of November and take them off at the end of the ski season. Cost with some nice looking alloys when I changed cars last year was £520 in total. Having driven to the alps from SE London for many years and having used snow tyres for a fair number I would not be without them when the temperature drops. Its nice when all about you are struggling to get their chains sorted - its snowing, its cold and dark (if at night) - you just drive happily by knowing your tyres are doing a great job.

Yes tyres deteriorate over time so we use the summer set and the winter set for 6 months a piece and get only a few less miles per mm of wear out of the winter ones.

I know loads of people that never used winter tyres and have never had any problems but that is not to say that when they do have a problem that the lack of grip in icy conditions wont kill them !!!

snow reports

Thanks again, sound advice.
I definately agree with practicing fitting chains.
I have had to do this at short notice once on a hire car one year and took some time to figure them out as it was starting to get dark and snow was falling.

I will just use summer tyres and chains this year and see how the trip goes.
I'd not thought about swapping from summer to winter tyres for the whole of the british winter which would make more sence to wear them down before they perish.

You know it makes sense.

Anyone actually used autosocks? I have been told by Audi NOT to use chains on my car/tyre combination and these seem to be the only alternative (I don't have the storage space for a spare set of tyres). Does anyone know the legal position if the local police say that chains are mandatory and I have socks?

As to how often do you need chains, I've driven to Flaine about 4 times and needed chains every time for at least one direction. It does seem to depend on the resort and the time of year in my opinion.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

tarrantd, My VW manual says I can't use chains as well - but I do - work fine. Usually just need to make sure you buy some low profile chains (9mm) to avoid fouling the wheels etc

A snowHead

I have winter tyres and sometimes have to use chains as well. I tend to put the chains on as soon as I feel any loss of traction - especially if I am having to do a lot of downhill bends. When I started using chains I was very reluctant to put them on, because I was so hopeless at it. Now I can do it easily and I could probably get away without them more often than I do. But I'm always worried that having decided to chance it, I will terminally lose traction on a long dark section of road with a narrow ploughed path and nowhere to pull off the road to put them on. I still find, despite having done it a lot, that it's very difficult to judge just when you are going to lose traction. Sometimes the tyres do brilliantly in some very iffy looking conditions. Other times they make a fuss about a bit of slush. "The wrong sort of snow".

We leave our winter tyres on all winter then swap - and thanks to a tip from a Snowhead we rotate the spare set now and then - but I didn't know about cling film and oxidising. Is that something else I should be doing to protect the set which are not in use. They're not on rims, we just get them changed in the local tyre place.

A snowHead

pam w, tyres deteriorate when exposed to sunlight and oxygen. Keep them in the dark and wrapped in cling wrap and they'll last longer.
Worst of all is 4x4's with the spare uncovered on the back door. It's unusable before it ever gets worn. Always use the spare, when the tyres are changed and put a new one on the back, ideally in a cover.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

tarrantd, A friend of mine has an Audi with silly very low profile tyres and sports suspension on his A4 estate. He was also told his car was a 'no fit'. He uses Maggi Trak Snow chains - a little expensive, but having seen how easy and quick they were to put on and importantly easy to take off, I was very impressed and am tempted to get myself a pair, even though I am pretty quick with normal chains. It's a very 'clean' system in every sense of the word. (reading back I should be on commission - ho hum) Anyway, one place you can get them are at www.roofbox.co.uk Hope that helps.

You need to Login to know who's really who.

Tatty
Over the years I have had to put chains on (the same set) in Ellmau, to get up to the St Bernard Tunnel and about 1/3 of the time I've been to Les Carroz! Now got a new car and I need new chains and I am mainly interested in the easiest to fit so I'll have a look at your suggestion.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

For everything you every wanted to know about tyres try here:

http://www.carbibles.com/tire_bible.html

Help!!

Snow / All Season tyres, Autosocks

snowHeads Forum Index >>> The Piste