Snow Chains? to hire or not to hire?

A snowHead

May have been lost in an earlier thread, so sorry if you've read it twice.
Final arangements for our ski trip to Villard De Lans. Few ££s left! so trying to spend as little as possible! .. So snow chains or not. How good are the french roads? We need to drive from Lyon to the resort Villard De Lans (I think this is a relativly low resort compared to some), but still it says snow on the lower pistes is good. I am assuming coaches make it without chains so we are banking on the roads being good / unless we are advised differently! Snow chains or no snow chains?
Thanks.

A snowHead

Don't know the area you mean, but if it is a ski resort, then chains are always worth it. Coaches will always carry chains, and often use them...so don't use that as a criteria.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

pav, in my opinion - hire. Better safe than sorry. Do you use the same criteria with smoke alarms ?

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pav, you'll usually find that the access road to a ski resort has a chains advised sign. The gendarmes do have a habit of stopping cars to check whether they have chains/snowtires. I've only ever had to put on chains on a major road once, but it's best to be prepared.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Snow chains are like insurance - you hope never to use it, but you'd be a fool to drive without it. I always carry chains, and the few quid you'll spend hiring them could mean the difference between getting to your resort and not getting there.

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Pav, I even had to use them on the autoroute to Geneva two weekends ago. Seriously false economy if it means you can't get to the resort!

When I hired a car in Lyon last Feb and asked nicely in French they gave me chains FOC, so it may not cost you anything.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Thanks. Snow chains it is!

After all it is free

Good choice! Having watched a guy gracefully drive his Audi TT sideways into a lamp post in Val T last season because he didn't have chains on I'd defintitely recommend them. Think how much the excess is on hire cars!!!! Shocked

Sorry to be simple! But in what conditions do you use snow chains (as they are not allowed in the UK!). Icy patches? Icy road? Snow settling / Snow covered / patches snow covered?

I am guessing they are not suitable for driving at speed. Thanks! 6 days to go!! HAving not skied for 15 years!! I got on a dry slope yesterday. Took just under half an hour to find the zone again! Strange .. it really is like riding a bike Very Happy

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If the hired car is equipped with snow tyres (with Zig Zag micro grooves) then it should be competent for all road conditions until you have deep and wet snow, say 5cm or 2" above the flat packed surface. Snow tyres are surprisingly versatile allowing most European motorists continue with their daily lives without fitting snow chains on roads with completely covered with dry and packed snow.

The chains dig into the snow and will not be needed if snow depth is significantly less than the chain. The best way is to look at the traffic from the opposite direction and the prevailing weather. The motorists coming toward you have to travel the ground your vehicle is about to cover. It is unlikely that you can advance much further if the majority of them have chains and you haven't. If you don't see cars coming, you are alone and the snow is pouring down then it is time to drive safely and slowly with chained wheels.

The chains make a lot of noise and vibration on road without sufficient snow. The car is slow and uncomfortable so one does not need guidance on when to take them off. The problem is when they should it be fitted. My advice is don't leaft it too late as you need a large layby to do it and this is usually unavailable by the time you really need chains. So if the snow is deep enough to travel with chains in comfort and many cars have got them it is the time to install the chains.

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We have just bought snow socks, no i'm not kidding! It is no fun arriving at a resort in the dark or leaving early in the morning and scrapping your knuckles in the freezing cold fitting b***dy chains. Anyway we did a bit of research and turned up with this www.roofbox.co.uk. We are going to try them out next week when we visit our daughter in Courchevel. I'll report back.

I saw a couple of cars with these when I was in Les Arcs recently. I wondered what they were, and now I know! Any independent reviews of how they compare to traditional chains? Like Lorraine I hate fitting chains, and would love an easier-to-fit alternative.

You know it makes sense.

Having seen the promotion movie of the autosock I am "not" (edited) convinced that it is enough for the job. If it becomes detached during heavy braking and rolled into the propeller shaft then serious damage can be done. The sock fixs to the tyre just like a seat cover by elastic band. The literature states that it is not a substitute for a snow chain which should be carried also.

To a motorist with some experience a set of snow chains can be fitted without moving the car.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Have you omitted a 'not', Saikee? The material on The Roofbox Co.'s site makes it pretty clear that the Autosock is not a complete substitute for chains, and may not be acceptable to the local rozzers.

It seems unlikely that it would tangle itself up with the prop shaft, or even the axle or half shaft, but anything's possible.

A snowHead

If you just want easier fitting chains then something a Rud Centrax would seem to be a better idea, or Spike Spiders etc. I'm not sure I see the logic of having snow socks that still mean you need to carry chains, how would it work? You upgrade as you drive up the mountain? Starting with nothing, then use socks before finally putting the chains on? Very Happy

In practice putting chains on isn't that hard, we overstate the difficulty I think.

A snowHead

The fitting of chains is difficult to a first timer but the operation becomes an ordinary task once it has been done a couple of times. Unfortunately UK motorists rarely come into contact with chains and doing it in a rush can be a nightmare.

I carry a large plastic sheet ( for kneeing down), a torch, a pair of rubber gloves and will take the car to a huge layby for the chains installation. I intend to turn the music up and take as much time as I want. It is not a job that one can hurry if one wants a pair of clean hands to drive in a relax manner afterward.

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Its still a pain in the backside..............we have to have chains in the car in the UK (and a shovel, sacking, a bag of grit, headtorch, a set of warm clothes etc), because we live out in the sticks and do have to use some or all of the winter kit at some point between November and March. If you look at the mechanics of the axle/drive mechanism of a vehicle and the construction/attachment of the snow socks, the chances of them getting wound up is almost negligable. However according to the test blurb they should get you in and out of the access roads to a resort. I'm not advocating 'green-laning' in them. So We are quite happy to give them a go and if the local gendarme stops us we've got our trusty chains in the boot - which even for seasoned chain putter onners are a b***dy pain! I agree with what ise said about spider-spikes, they are excellent but relatively expensive - if the socks don't work they are the next move.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

A few general points from my experience. We drove from the UK to St Anton and back in my own 4 X 4 in mid January - a great drive! I worried about obtaining snow chains and learnt that they are now obligatory in France and Switzerland. Even though we were not passing through the French or Swiss Alps, I wanted the "insurance". I investigated hiring, but could not find anything at reasonable prices. Eventually, I bought a set from Snow and Rock - over £200 - big wheels! I'm pleased to say we didn't need them and returned them to S & R within 21 days and got my money back.

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Got mine from Roofbox for about £100 to fit a 7-seater Shogun. Also haven't use it yet in two years but there was due to fitting snow-biased tyres and using the full time 4-wheel drive.

I think the chains are obligatory in mountain passes when the condition is causing concern to the police. The road signs for these passes do indicated chained wheels.

After all it is free

rob@rar.org.uk,

If you want convenience or happiness may be it is time to think about 4x4. Many rear differentials can be locked by a touch of a button and a real 4x4 require 3 wheels losing traction to get stuck. You should also have a better chance with deeper tread, M+S block patterns and larger wheels. The higher ground clearance provides more scope for coping deeper snow.

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saikee, can't really justify the expense of a decent 4x4 for the rare occasions when I drive all the way to the resort. Mostly I fly and hire a car or take the train. I just wish somebody would invent the self-fitting snowchain!

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saikee, out of interest how often are you fitting chains?

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ise,

I had a Nissan Primera that ran 4 trips to Chamonix and then a Rav4 that did two trips. The chains were put on mainly around Chamonix area but one trip to Flaine I could feel even a soft 4x4 like RAV4 with the chains weren't good enough in heavy snow. In the last two years my Shogun has managed two trips to France and one trip to Austria without the need to put the chains on. In general I only need chains to get over a short difficult distance. On average in a two-week trip I needed only 1 to 2 times to put the chains on. Please do not forget Chamonix to Martigny via Col Du Forclaz is a mountain pass with 10 hairpin bends. Chains are needed only after a heavy dump and before the road is cleared and I want to travel.

From my experience a fully fledged 4x4, with lockable differentials and low range gears and on newish tyres biased to snow, is as good as if not better than a 2WD car on chains.

I have a brother who lives in Norway and he drives a VW van. He never uses chains but he does know how to get the most out of the reverse gears with a good set of winter tyres.

saikee, interesting, I'm still recovering from shock at using my chains a couple of weeks back Very Happy

I used them in part to see if I could fit them but it was pretty marginal.

You know it makes sense.

ise,

I did mention when fitting chains I would do it in a relax manner, whistling and with the music turned up. It is no good to blame the chains for any confusion. In fact I like to spread the chain in full, look at it and then the wheel. That way one knows immediately which side is the inner (the biggest cable with just one connection) and the rest will come together.

I must admit that I am an engineer by profession and am supposed to know how things work.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Have a look at this link testing sock v boot v chains. I'm definitely using chains.
http://www.snobootz.com/pdf/KRCTestTahoe.pdf

A snowHead

Like most above, I got my chains and Auto Socks from the roofbox company (not affiliated in any way, just great service). I had to use my socks for the first time over the new year period in resort. There were 3 cars in our group. A Volvo 4x4, and two rear wheel drive estates. The snow was thin on the ground but it was rock hard and icy, and after watching lots of cars bouncing off the snow drifts on out corner (most entertaining in a strange sort of way) we decided to put chains on. Well, I was too lazy and cold so I put the socks on the rear wheels (normally, as I have rear wheel drive these were for the front and the chains for the rear), my mate put chains on his rear wheels and the 4x4 mate (with summer tyres I might add) stood there moaning for us to hurry up with a smirk. The 4x4 led off, and after sliding round the first corner like a bathtub on a black run, he 'slithered' over and put on his chains. Our turn to moan! Anyway, I found my socks to be remarkably good - better than I expected - however, going downhill my summer fronts (new with very deep threads) were next to useless causing me to slide frontside at every turn.

Personally, with my setup I find that having socks and chains cover every condition - that's with rear wheel drive. If it was allowed, I would dispense with chains and have socks for all 4 tyres.

Amazingly though were the small local french cars with skinny snow tyres -= no chains. They would overtake long lines of cars on the mountain in almost suicidal fashion. I kept waiting to see if they would continue straight over the edge of the road at the bends, but they held grip as if on tarmac. They're locals - I don't suggest anyone tries the same.. Shocked

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Snow Chains? to hire or not to hire?

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