 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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you could always rent some... www.snowchains.co.uk also have some good ideas on the right products etc..
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bloxy
bloxy
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CarlT, I'm surprised - I would have imagined that anything reasonably standard wheel size wise would have been relatively easy to find - maybe more so over here where there is a lot of wheel customising...you could try searching some french sites (e.g. www.roady.fr, www.speedy.fr) which are the Kwik Fit analogues - you might find them more easily this side of the channel?
But then again, for our Nissan not only would I have to specially order them but I'm only allowed them on my rear wheels...which is a bit odd on a car with "normally" front wheel drive...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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will you need them 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I've bought chains for a few cars off a seller on e bay. Paid about 40 quid. You just look up your tyre size on a chart he has on e bay site. Pretty much covers all sizes including specialist. Just search snow chains on e bay.
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I would definitely buy chains from a country where they need them, before I moved to switzerland I looked around for some (halfords etc) and they seemed expensive, got some here for roughly 40 quid I think. Only had to use them once and I'm damned if I can fit them, one fell off half way home and after that I never tried to use them again.
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The reason you only have the above options is probably because of the clearance (e.g. wheel arch, brake etc). Spikes only cover the centre of the wheel and don't wrap round the wheel as do snow chains (hence the much higher price but much lower performance). If you are planning to do this often I'd seriously consider getting an extra set of cheap steel wheels with smaller winter tyres. The spikes aren't cheap and it's possible that a second hand set of wheels and new winter tyres doesn't cost too much more. Many people will wing it on summer tyres and spikes but if the snow comes thick and fast you be be one of if not the first to have problems. Be aware that your braking, roadholding and grip with wide sporty winter tyres will be much much less effective than winter tyres. If it's a new GTI with 200 BHP you could be wheel spinning a lot of the time on snow without winter tyres. With winter tyres you will probably never have to get the snow chains out, with your existing tyres and BHP it's much more likely.
If you don't pays your money, you take your chances. How much is the excess on the insurance, how chuffed will the family be when Dad is "Torvil and Deaning it" ? When you're sat in the ditch at the side of the road you know someone will say "I told you we should of got the plane".
Do a search under "winter tyres" and "snow chains" for more info.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Mon 22-01-07 23:18; edited 2 times in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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On a serious note (not that im depressed that we havent had any snow yet) its always worth having some. If you get get some have a go at home and not look like an idiot trying to put them on in the snow (like me in Lauterbrunnen, Switzerland a couple of years back..lol)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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stab, we had instructions which said '10 easy stages with diagrams' and we STILL couldnt do it
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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CarlT, I think you may find that the spikes spyders are your only choice an 18 inch wheel probably doesnt leave enough clearance n the front for turning lock to lock If you search around you may be able to hire them,
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I think you may find that most manufacturers recommend only applying chains to steel wheels. I'd seriously consider buying a set of 16 or 17" steelers second hand then selling them afterwards (or keeping them if you're likely to go again). If you look at a lot of the Audis BM's Mercs etc in resort most seem to be on steel wheels and I'm sure these 20/30/40/50k motors didn't come with steelers on?????
Also, I'd be tempted to buy chains in France closer to the Alps. I realise that doesn't give you a chance to try puttin them on before you go but it will be cheaper. OR invest in some winter tyres and forget chains altogether... more cost but saves messing about!!!
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You know it makes sense.
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that's why a lot of cars have steel wheels in resorts, people buy winter tyres and get them fitted to old steelers, then after winter they just swap them over.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I've got 18" wheels with 245/45 tyres. the book says no to chains, but, www.snowchains.co.uk made me some Weissenfell clack and go chains. Easy to put on, self adjusting. had them on for 2 weeks solid, perfect, no problems.
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Poster: A snowHead
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CarlT, If you do a search on this you will find that chains are compusory on some roads when it snows and the police will stop you if you don't have them! Buy chains when you get near the Alps, they are much cheaper. Practice putting them on on your spare wheel in the dry warm conditions so you at very least have an idea.
I echo the coments re. getting a set of second hand wheels and fitting snow tyres, you will probably never have to put the chains on again, but you will still need to carry them. When you sell you car Ebay them.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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CarlT, I have the same problem. Spikes spiders are very easy to fit at the roadside, but there are question marks over their effectiveness. I've used them in undemanding conditions and found them fine. It may be that you have no option but to use this type of chain if clearance round the back of the wheel is a problem. I think that I'd use them again, just because easy fitting means that I'd probably put them on in time rather than hanging on and hoping and leaving it too late.
All types of chain can be hired, although the Spikes spiders aren't cheap. Boris fitted low profile chains to his car (the same as mine), to which chains aren't supposed to fit, and all seemed to be OK, IIRC.
You could try a Golf GTI forum for advice. These people were helpful to me.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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CarlT, If you can get chains for your car they are easy enough once you've done them a few times, practice, practice and practice.
Don't do what I did the first time I used them, halfway up to Flaine, just past Les Carroz, I realised we needed to put the chains on. My kids learnt a whole new vocabulary over the next 45 mins or so !
Take some old gloves and an old jacket you don't mind getting filthy. I've also got one of those torches that fit round your head, absolutely invaluable as if your partner is anything like my wife, she won't have a clue where to point the torch if you're fitting them in the dark 
On another note, how long do chains last ? I've used mine four times now, should I be thinking about replacing them ?
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CarlT, If you have non std wheels & tyres I would suggest buying them over there or face to face in UK where they can be tried, have seen a few problems with fitments from online purchases etc. You need to make sure that there is going to be enough clearances for arches etc on full compression & lock.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Be aware that snow chains aren't always kind to alloy wheels (another reason to go for a set of winter wheels and tyres).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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bladeskier,
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On another note, how long do chains last ? I've used mine four times now, should I be thinking about replacing them ?
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They last for ages if you just run them at low speed on snow.
They wear very quickly at high speed on clear Tarmac.
Visual inspection is the best way, have a look to see how worn the links are.
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CarlT, don't forget that with the Spikes Spiders you need to fit the mounting plates before you leave. It's easy enough, but takes an hour or more IIRC. An extra pair of hands is useful.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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they dont make the smaller wheels for the car.
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You mean that the disc brakes are so big that they fill the 18" wheels, but you said it was a Golf GTI, I don't know who is advising you, but I think you should have a look round at the other Golf's when you get to the Alps and see what they are wearing. 
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| CarlT wrote: |
| Winter tyres and wheels are not an option - they dont make the smaller wheels for the car. |
VW might not offer them in the UK, but they wouldn't sell many Golfs in Germany/Austria if no-one made some. For example, a quick search revealed these: http://search.ebay.co.uk/170072838636 - but you would need to check the bolt pattern is correct and brake clearance is sufficient.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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CarlT, as DB says (rather grumpily) you can almost certainly buy steel wheels for your car to take narrower tyres which will accept regular chains suitable for your car. It strikes me as a hell of an expense, though, for the odd trip to the snow. If you use Spikes Spiders, it seems that there is an increased risk that they will let you down compared to regular chains, but on a 'cost benefit' basis, I'd use them rather than fork out for replacement wheels and tyres.
It might be worth speaking to chain suppliers to see if they can recommend a set which they think would work on your car. The manufacturers may err on the side of caution in saying 'no chains'; it may be that some would be OK. You need to fit them before you go and look at them while (slowly) going from lock to lock and up and down on the shocks and check that there's no fouling. I'm surprised that car manufacturers don't supply chains for their 'no chain' cars; nice little earner, I'd have thought.
My (UK) insurance says nothing about using chains, although I daresay they could argue that if you don't use them or don't use the right ones, you aren't taking adequate care so they're not going to paying out. People rarely use them in England, and one doesn't hear of it being an issue with insurers, but who knows? They'll try anything to avoid coughing up, apparently (although I've never found that).
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richmond,
This isn't just a money issue it's a safety and inconvienience issue. Basically people who haven't got a clue what they are taking about give advice, that includes UK tyre suppliers, people who can't even put a pair of snow chains on and people who have never been in a proper winter storm. There are people here who have been through a proper storm with winter tyres and chains - they have seen the importance of proper winter set-up. This week 300 trucks were stranded in South East Austria overnight because some didn't have a proper winter set-up.
People try and save a few quid but lets be honest if you can afford a golf GTI and to take your family skiing why can't you afford to spend a bit more for theirs and others peoples safety? It all seems a bit tight and selfish to me. In real winter conditions spikes are not recommended by the Austrian or German motoring organizations, they basically gave them the lowest rating possible. So that's 242 GBP for a "make do" poorly rated set of spyder spikes, a full set of new wheels and tyres cost me only 450 quid recently. Wouldn't be surprised if you could pick up a full set of wheels and tyres on ebay for not much more than 200 GBP.
Just to be clear it's not English insurers (although you should check with your UK insurer if you are covered when driving abroad) it's European insurers when the car doesn't have winter tyres. It you have an accident in Austria during winter with summer tyres on (wether it is your fault or not) don't expect an Austrian insurer to pay out, and don't surprized if you are prosecuted if anyone is seriously injured or killed. Without summer tyres in Austria your car is deemed not fit for it's purpose just like having bald tyres in summer.
There's a small chance that anything will happen and at least 9 times out of 10 people will get to France on summer tyres and spikes. It's like insurance, you hope you don't need it but if you haven't got it when you do need it you're up the creek without a paddle.
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You know it makes sense.
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DB, I'm sure that what you say is right. Nevertheless, like most things, it's a cost/benefit calculation. One can always do something differently and better, but is the cost worth it? Where one comes down on the question of something like Spike Spiders on the one hand and coughing up for new wheels and tyres on the other is in part a matter of personal judgement (once one has the 'facts' at ones disposal). If I was likely to be driving in snow for more than a couple of days every two years I might buy new my wheels and tyres, or even change my car. I'm not, 'though.
You're right that there is an element of selfishness in the decision, but that is true of the decision to go skiing in the first place, and to drive (although alternatives all carry disavantages for others as well). I think that the decision to use Spikes Spiders is a reasonable, but not foolproof, one in my circumstances, and CarlT may feel the same in his.
FWIW, I intend to try to go skiing by train next year, as it's probably the pleasntest and least anti social way, but it'sis not easy or cheap, especially if one is limited to school hols.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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richmond,
You can use the tyres during the UK winter too (under approx 8 deg). They perform much better than summer tyres in the wet and cold even if it hasn't snowed.
If CarlT looks around he might be able to get a much better set-up for very little if any extra cost. The winter tyres / wheels on my Ford Focus (probably the same for his Golf) cost 450 GBP but they were new and the best winter tyres I could find for snow. Mines a diesel so the extra weight of the engine means I need wider tyres (205's). CarlT would probably get away with 16" 195's which are significantly cheaper.
the best option might be to buy the cheap steel wheels locally and get a pair of winter tyres via ebay or the internet.
From what I know having lived in Austria for over 6 years there's no way I would consider driving a sports car with wide summer tyres in snow on such a long journey.
One of the saddesat faces I ever saw was a foreigner looking up at the mountain full of powder from the side of the road next to his stranded car. He'd travelled all that way and then got stuck just miles before his goal. He had summer tyres and chains but he needed more than chains to get his car out of the ditch. You see he assumed that he could travel as fast as people with winter tyres in snow and slid off the road.
If anybody travels from the UK on a coach to a winter resort make sure that has winter tyres too.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Thu 25-01-07 14:31; edited 2 times in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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AxsMan,
"All weather tyres" are inbetween summer and winter tyres in terms of winter performance. I think the Austrian insurance companies would still hit you but if you are planning to drive over to France you have a much better set-up than wide summer performance tyres and spikes. Just be aware that you won't be able to drive or stop as fast as a car with winter tyres. Let locals pass - they are not all mad it's just that they will probably have a better setup than you and more experience of the winter driving along with better knowledge of the road ahead. Just pull into a layby or something. When you are driving in difficult conditions the last thing you need is a long tail back behind you breathing down your neck. When you pack the car try to get the heavy weight over the rear axle - this will help prevent the rear end sliding. Don't wait to be the last to put chains on, you should be one of the earlier ones (but well after the people with summer tyres).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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AW, Others no doubt know more than me, but here's my two pennorth 
If you have good tread depths on your tyres don't worry about putting winter ones on (but if you don't then get some new ones and why not fit 'all weather' they are better than summer ones and cost only a bit more). DO get some chains, but buy don't rent, they aren't that expensive and you can sell them on ebay if you change your car. I have allow wheels and they were fine on mine. If you haven't used them before buy them over here (plenty of internet sites advertise them) and DO practice fitting them on your drive in the dry. As well as the chains, carry a torch (either head mounted, small enough to hold between your teeth or have someone to hold it for you!), and something to kneel on (bin liner will do at a pinch). I don't bother with gloves, but some folks reckon a pair of marigolds are a good idea, a cloth to wipe your hands on doesn't hurt either.
If you do encounter snow on the roads don't wait until its impassable to fit the chains. Pull over in good time (i.e. as soon as you see other folks doing so), fit them, and keep your speed down to 30 (or less). Try to drive 'smoothly' with gentle acceleration and braking, and leave LOADS of room between you and the car in front. One thing I found useful driving in a real blizzard last year was to get behind (but well back from) an HGV. he cleared the road of snow for me (I drove in his tracks) and gave me a good visible point of reference.
Chains should do you fine for 1400m, and judging by the snow reports you almost certainly won't need to fit them. (but you never know)
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AW, if you look on a tyre chain site such as here you'll see what info you need to identify the right chains for your car/wheel/tyre combination. Baically it's the wheel size, the tyre width and the tyre 'thickness'. Some combinations need especially low profile chains, some can't take regular chains at all. When you have bought or hired the right ones, it is as you say a good wheeze to try fitting them before you go.
Ideally you use winter or all season tyres as well as chains, but there is a cost implication, especially if you have to by new wheels.
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AxsMan, thanks very much for such a prompt and helpful response. I have been looking on websites and have found some KWB Tempomatic specials which look promising (for low profile tyres - I'm learning the lingo!). I do have a husband who will probably be driving when we leave the motorway (only 11 miles to resort). He is supremely confident about driving in snow and ice. As I love him dearly I won't mention the time we got stuck in the middle of the turnip fields of Lincolnshire with a baby and toddler after he insisted on carrying on into the developing blizzard "to see what it's like"! Anyway I've decided to take responsibility for car safety just in case! As you say, the way things are going this season we should be safe. And travelling on one of the busiest days of the season should stop too much snow building up on the roads. Thanks again for your very informative reply - I feel quite reassured.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm a bit dubious about some suggestions in this thread that with snow tyres you're very unlikely ever to need to fit snow chains. I have four Michelin Alpin snow tyres - new last season - and have used chains twice this year already (ie in every snowfall we've had in 2007!). It depends on the type of snow, where you are, and the traffic conditions around you. But having struggled with a horrid cheap and nasty set of chains which we bought on the understanding that we were very unlikely ever to need to fit them on our super new snow tyres I have now bought a more expensive set, chunkier and very much easier to mount. Despite being a girlie I consider myself something of a snowchain expert (I always do my wheel twice as fast as my husband does his, then have to go and finish his off) but those cheap chains were really difficult to use. Now I have a better quality set I am much less reluctant to jump out and fit them, knowing it will take me a couple of minutes (I always have a small child's beach shovel to get rid of the snow behind the wheels before shoving the chain through, thus avoiding lying full length in the snow groping under the car). There were cars all over the place on Tuesday night, coming up from the Arly Valley, some in ditches and several already on the backs of recovery trucks. My tyres were hinting at a slight loss of traction and that was enough - with the chains on I could relax. I have alloy wheels (Fiat Multipla) but can't be bothered to think about changing wheels just to stop a few scratches. The car spends 3 or 4 months a year in the Alps, it can put up with them. Better that than slide into someone else's precious vehicle, or a child carrying skis across a road. However, if I was just going to the Alps for a week's holiday each year I would definitely not buy snow tyres. I would buy a decent set of chains and practice until I could put them on in the dark without a head torch. (Torch more likely to be needed to get the damn things off, finding the link that needs to be undone at the back, once the whole lot is covered in muck).
If you really struggle with chains you could use my friend Gordon's method - jack up car, take off wheel, fit chain beautifully, screw wheel back on, let car down, jack up the other side and repeat.....
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FAQ
! I was sort of thinking of hiring chains so I could practise putting them on in the UK but having read this thread I am now worried - I didn't really know about winter tyres! I wonder if anyone who is experienced in this could give me advice. We are going to Valloire which is at 1400m. Would we be OK with chains if we take it easy? Any help would be very gratefully received 
Boys will be boys! 