 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rayscoops, he keeps telling you the cost of x-rays is low. Why do you keep banging on? I just don't get it. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| rayscoops, he keeps telling you the cost of x-rays is low. Why do you keep banging on? I just don't get it. |
I had hoped to leave this issue behind but i would point out that the cost of a chest xray is not low if you consider the resources that are associated with each one; porter, nurse, radiographer, radiologist to report, secretarial to type etc.. and then add the volume of such tests - actually adds up to quite an amount.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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foggy, points taken. Most of the advice on here tends to be general advice rather than specific to the patient though.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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rayscoops,
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because he been taking the p$ss as much as I have...and becasue he is a doctor |
Oh well, at least that's an honest admission - which I've noticed is often forthcoming in the end. 
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you do seem to follow me around this forum, chipping in with alarming regularity - are you stalking me
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No. Unless by stalking, you mean taking issue with your trolling!
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[quote="drkpower"]
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But there is a specific tort in negligence of negligent misstatement (which doesnt require this contractual relationship) where someone relies, to their detriment, on incorrect information provided by someone who holds themselves out to have a particular skill/profession. I dont think a case has ever been (succesfully) taken in respect of information provided over the internet but, in theory, its possible.
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There would still have to be a relationship of sufficient "proximity" (in legal, not geographical, sense) between the parties though - in other words their relationship would have to be a close enough one for a duty to arise between them.
In an internet setting, where people are remote and often anonymous, that type of relationship is unlikely, so no liability.
It is also likely that anyone relying on internet advice, with its obvious risks and limitations, would be considered to be the author of their own misfortune if it all went wrong.
Now, lets have a big barny about this, just like the doctors.......
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Now, lets have a big barny about this
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That's a bit difficult when we're all agreed, at least I think we are, maybe foggy doesn't agree (see his post timed at 1740, which is the one that set me off!  )
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Lorenzo
The legal "proximity" required is actually not that close. For instance, in this present discussion, evidence of interaction and the tailoring of the specific advice (to Chect situation) would probaly establish adequate proximity between the parties (in this case, lets say chect relied on stoatsbrother's advice) - it might be different if some random punter looked at this and used the information for his own purposes.
Ultimately though it would probably not be reasonable for Chect to rely on the advice, given all the circumstances - which is essentially your author of his own misfortune point" ... so we agree then....?
Great...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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drkpower, at risk of conceding too soon, I think I agree with your view on proximity.
I was reading your post as relating to more general internet advice, whereas here the posters have built up some sort of relationship through exchange of posts.
Next question, do you think a disclaimer used by empinky at 1536 has any effect? In UK it would be contrary to statute as it disclaims liability for personal injury, but perhaps it is enough to negate reliance, or warn against the obvious dangers of accepting the advice.
It would be a pity if people were put off giving advice online. Truth is, we all know it is accepted at own risk so hopefully that would be followed through if anyone was daft enough to winge after the event.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Actually Hurtle I have been quite serious about my belief that xrays per se are not dished out by NHS for every Tom Dick or Harry who roll at at A&E holding their sides looking for an x-ray more because of logistics and therefore financial reasons rather than some medical reasons - it is bad enough getting a x-ray as it is at the moment -, but I have fun also exploring the issue and have also picked up a few points too. Edit - Kramer was making the point that he, as an individual, does not consider the expense of x-rays when he send some one down for one, but my point was that he operates under NHS protocol that an x-ray is not dished out for potential cracked ribs (unless there are mitigating factors) but other Health Systems do, so there must be more than just pure medical reasons for the two systems. From experience I know that you can get an x-ray if you need one, but you can not get an MRI scan if you need one, which is what Kramer, in fairness, has alluded to, and this is without doubt due to the expense/cost/availability of the MRI scan.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Thu 8-01-09 23:35; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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rayscoops,
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I have been quite serious about my belief that xrays per se are not dished out by NHS for every Tom Dick or Harry who roll at at A&E holding their sides looking for an x-ray more because of logistic and therefore financial reasons rather than some medical reasons
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Fair enough. It does seem a tad pointless, though, to keep going on at stoatsbrother when he's repeatedly said he doesn't agree with you. I'm inclined to believe him and Kramer and maybe even to believe that most GPs would not hesitate, on grounds of cost alone, to get an x-ray done. But what do I know? And drkpower seems to have got too involved in abstruse legal discussions to opine!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Next question, do you think a disclaimer used by empinky at 1536 has any effect? In UK it would be contrary to statute as it disclaims liability for personal injury, but perhaps it is enough to negate reliance, or warn against the obvious dangers of accepting the advice.
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Yeah, I agree with u there - It wouldnt be a complete bar to recovery but it would feed into the reasonableness of someone relying on the advice/information.
I think this conversation might rapidly close this particular blog down though..... the finer points of negligence are not exactly prime time!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Fair enough. It does seem a tad pointless, though, to keep going on at stoatsbrother when he's repeatedly said he doesn't agree with you. I'm inclined to believe him and Kramer and maybe even to believe that most GPs would not hesitate, on grounds of cost alone, to get an x-ray done. But what do I know? And drkpower seems to have got too involved in abstruse legal discussions to opine!
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Ive almost forgotten who is saying what at this stage. For the record, there certainly are many many doctors (in Ireland, at least and i would say the UK too) who would have a very low threshold for ordering what might be described as borderline unnecessary tests owing to a combination of pressure from patients and uncertainty of clinical judgment and the practice of defensive medicine. A good case in point would be GPs who run off a battery of blood tests for someone who presents for the first time with fatigue or other such non-specific symptoms when the appropriate initial advice would be to work less, de-stress, get more sleep, drink less coffee, booze less and other lifestyle tips.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| drkpower wrote: |
| For the record, there certainly are many many doctors (in Ireland, at least and i would say the UK too) who would have a very low threshold for ordering what might be described as borderline unnecessary tests owing to a combination of pressure from patients and uncertainty of clinical judgment and the practice of defensive medicine. |
Indeed. Lumbar spine x-rays for back pain for instance. However just because lots of other people do it, doesn't mean that the rest of us should dilute our standards.
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| A good case in point would be GPs who run off a battery of blood tests for someone who presents for the first time with fatigue or other such non-specific symptoms when the appropriate initial advice would be to work less, de-stress, get more sleep, drink less coffee, booze less and other lifestyle tips. |
Except that a blood test is almost completely harmless, whereas too many x-rays probably aren't. Also most of our patients who present with tiredness are convinced that they've got diabetes/thyroid disease/anaemia, because that's what they've been told. Some of them are happy just with lifestyle advice, but many want the reassurance of the blood tests.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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drkpower, yes, I'm sure some doctors order unnecessary tests, if that's what you're saying. I was trying to ascertain your view on rayscoops's contention that some doctors refuse, on the grounds of cost alone, to order x-rays.
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Actually, it seems to me as a NHS doctors, that in areas where investigations lead to more income for a doctor or his friends, they tend to get over investigated.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| drkpower, yes, I'm sure some doctors order unnecessary tests, if that's what you're saying. I was trying to ascertain your view on rayscoops's contention that some doctors refuse, on the grounds of cost alone, to order x-rays. |
I have never said that, I have said that the NHS system precludes x-rays for checking for broken ribs on the grounds of cost, although I admit and agree that there are other mitigating circumstances
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rayscoops,
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you always seem to take a contrary view to me
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Nonsense, that's just not true, I often agree with you and say so. I haven't even got a firmly held contrary view on this particular topic. I just like badgering people who are obviously badgering other people (or badgering me.) 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| rayscoops wrote: |
| Hurtle wrote: |
| drkpower, yes, I'm sure some doctors order unnecessary tests, if that's what you're saying. I was trying to ascertain your view on rayscoops's contention that some doctors refuse, on the grounds of cost alone, to order x-rays. |
I have never said that, I have said that the NHS system precludes x-rays for checking for broken ribs on the grounds of cost, although I admit and agree that there are other mitigating circumstances |
Apologies - consider 'NHS' to have been inserted between 'some' and 'doctors.'
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You know it makes sense.
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chect2000, that's snowHeads for you 
As a skier who fell and damaged their ribs, carried on skiing for the rest of the week, took loads of painkillers for a few weeks, went skiing again, fell again and further damaged said ribs, this time much worse, kept taking painkillers, didn't bother going to the doctor because there's nothing they can do for damaged ribs, I say, just GO (but try not to fall)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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chect2000, don't worry, actually very few worms got out - the longer they're in the can the less they stick their necks out
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Poster: A snowHead
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slikedges, do worms have necks?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hoppo, slikedges, this reminds me of a joke:
One warm spring day, an earthworm makes its way half out of the ground and looks around. Before long, a second earthworm surfaces just next to the first one.
The first one turns to the second and goes: "Darling, it's spring, the sun is out, the grass is green, the birds are chirping, look, two lovers are kissing on a bench, let us kiss too!"
The second worm says "Go to hell, can't you see I'm your tail end?"
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| RachelQ wrote: |
chect2000, that's snowHeads for you
As a skier who fell and damaged their ribs, carried on skiing for the rest of the week, took loads of painkillers for a few weeks, went skiing again, fell again and further damaged said ribs, this time much worse, kept taking painkillers, didn't bother going to the doctor because there's nothing they can do for damaged ribs, I say, just GO (but try not to fall) |
Well it was decision time. Ribs not to bad now so off we go on Sunday. poo-poo or Bust. I will let you know when i get back if it was the right decision.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Look after yourself chect2000! Hope you have a great time.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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didnt realise i would open up such a can of worms by asking if the are any Doctor's
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chect2000, have a good trip & hope you are safe and comfortable.
Can we now swing the arguement to punctuation? Lynne Truss would have a fit. 
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| foggy wrote: |
| FWIW - I'm a doctor. Two pieces of advice 1) Don't ask for medical advice on a skiing forum. 2) Don't take advice from a doctor willing to give it on a skiing forum. |
Just come across this thread and was intrigued by this post, in particular foggy's second piece of advice. On the face of it sound advice which I might follow. OTOH it's advice given by a doctor, so maybe I shouldn't...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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FAQ
) and that he is trolling 
edit - it was 'blow for blow' so to speak, plus also you accused me of annoying the docs when there were three having a pop at me 
