 Poster: A snowHead
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There is always a lot of talk about which is better, I always find that a bit of research on the net will beat the price of a TO
I have just booked a XMAS and new year trip for a group of 8
4 of my single friends wanted to do this on the cheap so I priced up this trip for them to Chamonix
Flights
return to geneva £0.00 going out (plus tax) £12.00 retur (plus Tax)
They are happy staying in a Gite\Hostel as they like the nightlife
so they have booked out a 4 man dorm at 15E a head (over Christmas and new years) !!!
Factor in a transfer fee of 50E and you have one very cheap 8 day trip
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Even with flight taxes that`s pretty amazing.
That said, things get a bit more complicated (and expensive) with children!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
That said, things get a bit more complicated (and expensive) with children!
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Not always - we book a self-catering apartment direct with the owners and drive down there. A lot cheaper than anything I've seen with TOs
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Ww like a short travel day, and like to have a cook, and housekeeper.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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i started out using a T.O. as i had no idea what i was doing.. soon graduated to booking it all myself online and via e mail.. i would guess most people end up doing it that way..
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| Fr0sty the Sn0wman wrote: |
| Ww like a short travel day, and like to have a cook, and housekeeper. |
Carry your bags, Sir?
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Fr0sty, do you refuse to take the peasant wagon as well? I expect you have a limo ready at the airport to wisk you to the resort?
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brian
brian
Guest
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When TOs are left with a big surplus, their last minute deals would be pretty hard to beat I would think*. For busy times diy is an absolute no brainer.
* although personally I'd pay a considerable premium to avoid being treated like a brain dead sheep.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
treated like a brain dead sheep
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that shuffling round looking for the "rep" does feel a bit like that. When one of my party had an accident on the slopes one day the rep was stunned that I had sorted out all the insurance, the doctor, the pharmacist etc myself. It hadn't occurred to me not to. Ski hols are the only packages we've done - like CANV CANVINGTON said, I didn't know what I was doing, and in those days, before the internet and email, DIY was much harder. I don't like anything "packaged", really, including hotels where you get your meals provided, or halls of residence, residential conference centres, etc etc. Make we want to break out and break the rules. I have rarely paid to stay in a hotel for pleasure (as opposed to being paid to do so on business, or overnight on a long journey or similar). I would always much prefer to rent somewhere independent, or even camp, and go out to eat if I can afford it (which is rarely the case!). If I was loaded I would rent a high spec independent chalet and a chef. My son worked on that sort of basis for some v wealthy people in Val D'Isere when he was free-lancing. He spoke to them the week before to find out the kind of food they liked - he said they were absolutely charming. Portuguese, spoke several languages fluently (even the kids), very appreciative, very interesting. Wrote him a terrific feedback report to the agency he worked for and said it was the best food they'd ever had on a ski holiday. That's the sort of client I'd be, too.  (well, except for the speaking 3 languages fluently bit.  )
For "first time skiers" who are not used to independent travel I think packages make perfectly good sense and some of the tour ops do a good job. We went several times with Ski Olympic, in catered chalets, and found them good value and thoroughly enjoyable. It was sociable too, and the kids especially enjoyed having some other people around to play games with. I've not tried the "upmarket" TOs (could never afford it) but my son was not impressed with the one he started working for in Val D'Isere - that's why he went freelance. Some of our DIY holidays involved renting bigger places and organising a group, which provided similar advantages, and with the inhabitants of each of 6 bedrooms doing one evening meal each we ate extremely well for small money. That's a lot more work, though I quite enjoyed it.
People want very different things from their holidays, and have very different ideas about budgets and priorities. It's good that there's so much choice these days.
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ajbaldwin, good for you - I can't believe any TO would want to organise a trip like that...but as I say, good for you. I wouldn't not DIY for a holiday unless I was well compelled...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I don't understand those hard working Brits who skimp on their precious two week break and put themselves at the mercy of semi-literate oiks and Dorises who couldn't get a job elsewhere. The attitude seems to be "how cheap can I get it" whereas Americans, for example, say "What's the most luxury I can afford". Cheapo tour ops are just experts at humiliation - it keeps the complaints down. It starts at the airport check-in queue (long, unruly and glacial of course) when some woman in a bright blue jacket comes to check that you have got your tickets (d'uh), your passport (d'uuuuh) and that you're not nervous going abroad. They must go on courses of how to treat customers like total numpties. Then when you finally get there they do that "you must bring your return ticket to the welcome meeting so that we can check it" just so they can get you there to flog you a sweaty excursion to a ridiculous ruin. Nah, do your own thing, spend properly and take your leisure time more seriously.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
your passport (d'uuuuh)
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There have been quite a few stories in the last few years of Snowheads who have discovered at the very last minute that they don't have, or can't find, valid passports. The TOs do this because, no doubt, they've seen it all before. Not everyone is a suave, cool, multi-lingual and well organised globe-trotter, Bode Swiller. There are plenty of sensible people working for TOs and plenty of sensible people taking their holidays. There are also daft people, just as there are daft people going "DIY" who break down on the autoroutes without good insurance, have their skis fall off the roofrack on the M20, skid off mountain roads without snowtrains or miss their flights home.
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Bode Swiller, spot on... 
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You know it makes sense.
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ajbaldwin, what flights did you book? That's a helluva deal even out of season, but at Christmas?? Do you fly somewhere daft like Aberdeen to Geneva at 0100 on Christmas day or something?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I just booked the xmas week in Chamonix for myself and my father. Did it DIY after checking out a few packages. Sorted out flights and a nice small family hotel with good reviews in the town centre for bang on a grand. Factor in the transfer from Geneva and we've saved a few hundred quid. However, if you are going for the really cheap places a package deal sale can often be about the same price as a DIY and you don't have to mess round with transfers.
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Poster: A snowHead
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My dad wanted to get away over xmas and he wouldn't like roughing it... and I can get 4 days skiing in, loads of good food, wine and beer.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Not everyone is a suave, cool, multi-lingual and well organised globe-trotter, Bode Swiller.
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pam w, you're so right 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| ajbaldwin wrote: |
| Fr0sty, do you refuse to take the peasant wagon as well? I expect you have a limo ready at the airport to wisk you to the resort? |
He has a private helicopter. Of course... it's now a chinook 
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Slumming it in an ultra-low-cost, low-profit hostel with scutters is probably not a business model most TOs want to get into.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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two of us as doing 2weeks in France self catering in Jan. Costing us about £600 each all in including lift passes.
We normally do chalet holidays and end up paying more than that for a week after all the extras. Although the chalet experience is wonderful and relaxing, we're looking forward to having the freedom to do what we want, eat what and when we want and get some serious boarding in!
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I've mixed opinion about this. I have had some amazing deals with T.O.'s. A mix of good & bad reps. Some good ski guiding some not so. Transfers with T.O.'s seem to take ages longer than they should; e.g.. last year I had an early flight to Chambery rather than more distant Geneva, Lyons etc & I relished the prospect of being on the slopes in the 3V that afternoon, not so I had to wait in the transfer bus until flights from all comers of Britain arrived and their passengers dealt with mislaid luggage. The bus then stopped at BSM to rearrange passengers & stopped at all resorts on the way up to Courchevel 1850, as a result it was getting dark by the time I arrived. In contrast my DIY much derided Ryanair flight from Liverpool to Friedschafen went like clockwork, hassle free check-in even with large ski bag, flight on time, spanking new plane, luggage on the belt as I cleared immigration, bus to Zurs left 15 minutes later = result = on the slopes at lunch time. My other part DIY trip for 'boot camp' went OK with Easyjet bur was slightly delayed by poor visibility at John Lennon Airport. I did notice that the Ryan Air Flights were cancelled because "the air was too thick". If I had been with Ryanair I would have had lots of anxiety as they only fly once a week from there. I often go as a solo traveller and it is nice once I get to the airport to hand over responsibility to the T.O.. It is a comfort to have some support when things go wrong even if you still finish up sorting things yourself.
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| Quote: |
Slumming it in an ultra-low-cost, low-profit hostel with scutters is probably not a business model most TOs want to get into.
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Which is why keen snow-users without much money, and whose self-esteem doesn't depend on being seen in "all the best places" can have a fantastic holiday for not too much money, and perhaps meet some more interesting people. My niece is a medical student and her boyfriend a student journalist; they had a great time in Chamonix last winter, staying in a hostel. But then they are tough, resilient, people who spend all their very limited spare cash on travel and don't expect everything to be handed to them on a plate. She worked 12 hour shifts in a biscuit packing factory to pay for the holiday. Right now she's in a low dive in South America somewhere, learning Spanish, having spent the first weeks of the uni vacation cleaning factory toilets. She'll be back in med school in Cardiff soon, still working very hard. Sneering at people who can't afford expensive holidays, or who have other priorities, is an easy laff, I suppose.
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I've done DIY & TO, although only a few times DIY. I've never really had a problem with TOs - it makes the transfer easy, I've never had to wait hours until other flights have arrived just until everyone on our flight is on the bus, I never go to the 'welcome meeting' (do they still have those??). DIY, especially with fluctuating exchange rates, can make it 'interesting' how much the holiday will actually cost. And getting to the resort can also involve lots of hanging around - going to Laax last year we had to wait 2 hours at Zurich airport before being picked up by the transport laid on by Laax resort.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I DIY for 2 weeks per year but do one organised holiday (normally with SCGB / Freshtracks) for the third - largely because I find I don't have enough friends prepared to commit well in advance to make 3 full "Gold" standard groups with a guide.
However I almost always ditch the travel and arrange my own because they always assume 6 days skiing and I want to do 8 - or as near to it as I can. For example this year in Jan going to Chamonix to ski with a guide, it is really easy to pick your flights to get to your hotel door before midday without needing a taxi, and to return after a full day skiing on the last saturday. So why don't the companies do it?
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Me again
Wow that's some mixed responses above!
The post was supposed to highlight the fact that you can go ski-ing on very little budget without having to do a TO, with just a little bit of research. I hate the "herded like sheep" approach you get with TO's so I always book myself, plus I like the flexibility of having chosen my flights to suite me, the exact accommodation I want (although the wife always has final say on that) and hiring a car for the extra flexibility, but if you shop around this does not have to cost the earth
Whilst I agree with Bode Swiller and that is my idea of a nightmare, if you have 4 kids in tow some grandparents etc I bet you don't mind being "herded" as it take the hassle away from you
Whitegold
Some of the best times of my life were had slumming it in low budget hostels in various corners of the world, so if my mates still want to then fair play
But for me those days are over so I have rented a nice chalet just down the road 
Plake
No I am flying from Doncaster early evening (so I can still work that day) on Christmas eve flying back late on new years day so I still get a full day on the slopes
Donny is only an hour away so its not to bad, plus compared to Manchester it is a breeze to check in an out off
u
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| ajbaldwin wrote: |
Donny is only an hour away so its not to bad, plus compared to Manchester it is a breeze to check in an out off
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That's good to hear, sort of. My next 2 trips are TO from Manc and DIY from Donny so I'll be curious to see how the 2 compare.
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Fenland
I probably fly out of Donny 3-4 times a year, I came back from Barca 2 weeks ago from landing to being in my car and out of the carpark was about 15 -20mins, check in is easy as well, I HATE flying out of Manc, Leeds and Donny are the easiest for me
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You know it makes sense.
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I normally DIY, but this year by the time we've paid for the flights we want and accommodation, the price is as much as what some TO's are charging for a hotel B&B or HB, so I'm thinking of doing that this year.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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some woman in a bright blue jacket comes to check that you have got your tickets (d'uh), your passport (d'uuuuh) and that you're not nervous going abroad
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You'd be AMAZED, matey. Friend of mine once had to put up with a group who had booked an 'all-inclusive package' and just assumed it was a beach holiday. They didn't twig even when everyone else got on the flight wearing ski jackets. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Lizzard,
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I too cant understand the logic that you try and get bargain basement quality holiday, and assume you are getting a quality prouct. You can be very lucky on price, I was once in Courchelvel and had a great holiday. However in most cases you get what you pay for. pam w, 's son or Mr/Miss Gap Year that cant cook! I know which one I would want to go on. I work hard enough the year round just to make do in a good location!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I guess everyone has their view. I've DIY'd and TO'd for my skiing hols, depending on what I was looking for at the time. Last season I skied twice, both via TOs, both at £370pp HB, F & T. Both experiences were excellent. No delays on transfers, no problems with food or accommodation. Elected not to do anything with the reps for the organised events, so free to do what we wanted with the only restriction being timing for dinner, which was always sociable.
There are always cheap options, but when I've looked into SC DIY recently, I haven't really seen that much of a saving against TO prices. And at £370pp and no real hassle, TO's edge it for me to be honest.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I hate the being herded around bit of TO package's too though have found that they can work out well for Switzerland if you do train transfers rather than coach. No waiting around for some numpty to find their luggage and often found I can't beat the TO price once you've got your flights sorted.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I don't understand those hard working Brits who skimp on their precious two week break ... The attitude seems to be "how cheap can I get it" whereas Americans, for example, say "What's the most luxury I can afford".
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Bode Swiller, spot on... I am always bemused at reasonably well off British friends who seem to go out of their way to pinch every penny when planning holidays as if getting the absolute cheapest deal is some sort of sport and then moan about how rubbish the TO was or how bad the flight was at 4 am with XYZ low cost airlines....
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Manchester Airport used to a favourite but now peak time it is painful to check in & clear security. Robin Hood Airport is a pleasure in comparison - OK it is in the middle of nowhere but its clean, new and shinny, can park right outside the door, no crowds , no queues, Wetherspoons £5 full breakfast & 'cheap' beer. Pity they only seem to Poland or somewhere + a few charters. I would DIY if I could fly from here anything to avoid the T.O. saturday farce at MAN.
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DIY comes into its own if you can avoid weekend travel altogether.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Lechbob wrote: |
| Manchester Airport used to a favourite but now peak time it is painful to check in & clear security. Robin Hood Airport is a pleasure in comparison - OK it is in the middle of nowhere but its clean, new and shinny, can park right outside the door, no crowds , no queues, Wetherspoons £5 full breakfast & 'cheap' beer. Pity they only seem to Poland or somewhere + a few charters. I would DIY if I could fly from here anything to avoid the T.O. saturday farce at MAN. |
Thomson fly to Salzburg and Geneva from there.
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In view of what's just happened to Ecxel, you might all wish to reconsider your aversion to tour op packages. One of the reasons they cost more is the ABTA bonding, which doesn't come cheap.
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FAQ
