 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi guys, bit of a newbie round these parts but am certain some of you more experienced folks will be able
to answer my query!
I went to Canada last winter with NONSTOP (amazing company) to get my CSIA Lv2 and CFCF Lv1 licences and then decided then to head to NZ where I've been getting a brilliant first season teaching under my belt. However, after speaking to quite a few instructors over here I'm unsure of what direction to take next.
In the Canadian system the next step would be to Lv3 which is classed as ISIA, but everyone i've spoke to recomends that I change over to BASI as this is the more recognised system if i want to teach in Europe (I do). I thought the point of an ISIA licence that it was in international standard!
So is the Canadian ISIA worth less than the BASI equivalent?? and if i decided to bite the bullet and convert to BASI what would that involve besides a large hole in my pocket  ??
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Snowface71, tough call.... Personally i would say a canadian ISIA is just as "good" as a BASI one but (i could be wrong here) CSIA doesnt have the second language module nor off piste safety module that BASI does and the EU ski schools like to see...
I would say it depends where you intend to teach the most. If teaching in canada and NZ stick with CSIA, if your ambition is to teach full time in Europe BASI or the Austrian route may be a better bet but will be expensive in terms of time and money....
Not sure if a CSIA L2 will allow you to go straight into BASI ISIA training but assuming it does you have the following courses to do to get your BASI ISIA. 1wk common theory in Scotland, 6 day mountain safety, 4 day BASI L2 coach (your CSCF L1 should be okay for basi L1), 1 wk teach, 2 wk tech and a 1 wk L1 course in a second discipline.... You will probably have to do a cild protection module as well as a first aid course recognised by BASI....
so 7 weeks of courses over at least 2 years....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Not that you can't afford it Johno To do BASI you will need a second discipline as above which could be a pain in the a*se depending how you look at it.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 3-09-08 11:44; edited 1 time in total
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arv, i know two guys who rocked up for the Telemark L1 never having been on tele skis and passed. The snowboard indoor course doesnt sound too tough either...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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skimottaret, fair enough! Didn't even consider Telemark as a possiblity.. good point.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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arv, it is also great fun, i have had a couple goes at MK and cant wait to give it a proper go on a green slope somewhere... 
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Snowface71, If you are looking at a career you need BASI ISTD (one after ISIA).. for which you need the speed test. If not, then your CASI should get you work in Europe ('cept France, Austria, Italy). Having a 2nd language will help no end.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Errr.....requires a typo on the keyboard
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| arv, i know two guys who rocked up for the Telemark L1 never having been on tele skis and passed. The snowboard indoor course doesnt sound too tough either... |
That's amazing although not impossible clearly as two guys have done it, although them being already very experienced/highly skilled skiers at, or approaching ISIA level means them changing to telemark skis is a completely different situation to an experienced skier strapping on a snowboard for the first time ever having never boarded before and passing the L1 Snowboard course just like that. A bit like someone who had never skied before then trying to pass Level 1 Alpine. It just wouldn't happen.
I've recently seen two separate L1 Snowboard courses being run while I was up at Tamworth doing my Level 1 Alpine and in my opinion it would be virtually impossible to pass a L1 Snowboard course without ever having boarded before. I recently learned to board and make linked turns from the top of the dome slope in 2 hours which is pretty quick learning, but I would have serious work to do before I would pass the L1 Snowboard from what I've seen, there's no way I could pass the course now if I took it.
It does take less time to become a boarder to an adequate standard mind you, like with Level 1 Alpine they say you must be able to ride red runs in control and have 16 weeks minimum boarding experience ideally, probably more, although I do know of one person that took the L1 snowboard course last month who had been boarding 3 weeks, don't know if she passed or not though. I think she did so it shouldn't take weeks and weeks to get to Snowboard L1 standard and pass. I've only had a couple hours lessons so far but once I've had a week away in a resort boarding I expect the improvement will be quite significant, albeit probably not at the level required for L1 snowboard yet mind you.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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arv, I think Telemark is classed as the "easy" option out of the second disciplines for skiers to choose from, I suppose it depends if you intend to actually teach the second discipline as well as your main or not. If not then the easiest, quickest route is best I should think. If you do want to actively teach second discipline as well as your main then snowboarding seems to be the most attractive because more people in resorts want boarding lessons than telemarking lessons and it seems to becoming more and more popular too as time goes on.
Anyway, I digress....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Snowface71, If you are familiar with the Canadian system and their requirements I'd be tempted to stick with them. It will be cheaper for you for sure.
On the other hand the main benefit of going the BASI route would be professional liability insurance while working in Europe. I understand that the CSIA would not cover you while working in Europe.
I don't see that one will give you more work opportunities over the other ?
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Snowface71,
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In the Canadian system the next step would be to Lv3 which is classed as ISIA
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I have heard some information in the last couple of weeks that the CASI level 3 is no longer considered of ISIA level, could be worth checking out. From what I have heard, those who already have the level 3 and WERE ISIA before, are no longer considered to be. Not sure about their new courses though, whether they have changed them and added extra weeks and a second discipline or not.
What I have been told could be wrong, and just a chinese whisper,(it did come from a CASI qualified person) but if you are planning on carrying on your career, it is worth trying to find out.
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You know it makes sense.
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Cheers guys, sounds like a bit more research is required then. Trying to get a job in Switzerland for the coming winter at the moment so might have to ring BASI and see if my Canadian qualifications will allow me to get an equivalency so I can make a start working towards ISIA level during the season.
Never considered a second discipline Mr ARV but tele would be my prefered choice unless they'd count a monoski
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I'm not an instructor but I do know some BASI 2 people who did the reverse and "converted" to CASI to get their ISIA as it was a lot simpler.
In doing so they all have commented that the CASI system seems a better way to teach and will be using that style in the future.
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Poster: A snowHead
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rungsp, that's interesting. Where are they teaching out of interest? In Canada or Europe?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Not to nitpick, but CASI = snowboard, CSIA = ski - you've changed the OP into a snowboarder as the thread's gone on
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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DaveC, sorry but you're gonna have to accept this one as a recurring dislecksik tradition here
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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To convert from CSIA to BASI I think you have to go back one step. So if you are CSIA 2 you will have to do BASI L2 Instructor before you go on to do ISIA level quals. That's how it used to work anyway, but they don't seem to have that info on the website anymore?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| To convert from CSIA to BASI I think you have to go back one step. So if you are CSIA 2 you will have to do BASI L2 Instructor before you go on to do ISIA level quals. That's how it used to work anyway, but they don't seem to have that info on the website anymore? |
I too was under the impression he would have to do that to convert from CSIA L2 to BASI L2 meaning course cost of £510 plus 2 weeks flights, accomodation and lift pass in whichever resort. I might be wrong though, can't find anything on conversion of CSIA to BASI.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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There used to be, don't think it's been there since they updated the website.
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So according to that chart then Snowface71 would have to take Instructor-now BASI Level 2 to convert his CSIA L2?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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VolklAttivaS5, I know quite a few CSIA L2's and there skiing would not be good enough to pass BASI L2. The technical pass level is for sure lower than BASI L2, however the teaching element I believe is superior. Of course I'm not saying that snowface71's skiing isn't up to or beyond BASI L2 standard. but BASI consider the CSIA L2 to be of a lower standard technically, hence not getting an automatic bye to Ski Teacher ISIA courses.
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| Spyderman wrote: |
| VolklAttivaS5, I know quite a few CSIA L2's and there skiing would not be good enough to pass BASI L2. The technical pass level is for sure lower than BASI L2, however the teaching element I believe is superior. Of course I'm not saying that snowface71's skiing isn't up to or beyond BASI L2 standard. but BASI consider the CSIA L2 to be of a lower standard technically, hence not getting an automatic bye to Ski Teacher ISIA courses. |
Spyderman Oh aye, not saying I don't agree with the thinking behind it, as I have heard that what you have said above is the case before, (I think we talked about it at the BBQ actually) but snowface71 needs to be aware that since he can't start at BASI ISIA he has to do his BASI L2 first and that means it's £510 L2 course fee, lift pass for 2 weeks, accomodation, flight transfer etc which then adds to the cost of his conversion and may alter his decision to do so, rightly or wrongly.
When I worked out the potential cost for my L2 assuming half board and single supplement I allowed for about £1500 all in. D'you reckon that sounds about right by time you've added lift pass etc. That was based on doing the L2 in Courchevel or Val d'Isere though, so not cheap resorts.
Incidentally, did you do CSIA L2 and then change to BASI or did you do CSIA L1 and then BASI L2? Can't quite remember.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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VolklAttivaS5, I went through Snowsport England first, then Snowsport Scotland, then CSIA, then BASI. All of them totally separately, no byes on any levels.
I spent £2000 on BASI L2, but I did stay in a nice chalet.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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VolklAttivaS5, I'm surprised you can remember anything that was said at the BBQ, I don't think I can. 
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seems to me that as a general rule of thumb most national bodies will make you retake the same "level" you are currently at to get equivalence in their own local structure.
ie if you are a Canadian L2 you are exempt from BASI L1 and need to sit L2 exams.
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You know it makes sense.
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I also recon that there is a huge difference between technical ability going from L2 to L3 in CSIA, BASI or PSIA..
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Spyderman, hee hee. Yes I can because I asked you if you did BASI L1 or not as I had recently done mine.
Yeah £2000 is probably a bit more like it, this was based on 3 star hotels in the centre of the resorts, so with a bit of spending money as well then it will be getting on for the £2000 mark. This is why I will probably do it next summer as hopefully it might cost a smidgen less then and besides I don't think I'll be ready for it by March anyhow, but we'll see, could still end up in Mayrhofen if I get my skates on, I get back from Fernie on 4th March and Mayrhofen is 9th-20th which means departure to Austria on 7th or 8th of March! Could be done perhaps.
Why didn't ASSI give you a bye on CSIA L1?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| I also recon that there is a huge difference between technical ability going from L2 to L3 in CSIA, BASI or PSIA.. |
That's for sure, in all.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
I also recon that there is a huge difference between technical ability going from L2 to L3 in CSIA, BASI or PSIA..
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Yes indeedy.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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VolklAttivaS5, BASI L1 didn't exist when I did my L2, it was called the 'Foundation Course' then. I got an exemption from that for holding Snowsport Scotland ASSI and P S-G told me to go for it.
At the time I did CSIA L1, the CSIA had withdrawn exemption for SSS ASSI holders, even though the year before it was fine. Now there's an exemption from CSIA L1 if you hold BASI L1, which can be converted from ASSI in 1 day without assessment. Still it was a good introductory course, the Trainer told me that I was way above standard on day 1, after that we just had some fun as there was only Boywonder and me on the course. The teaching element was really good though and instead of fake lessons, we hijacked real people on the hill and gave then a free lesson. If they improved and enjoyed themselves we passed.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
I entered the Snowsport England system in 1991 so I was OK.
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Nee hee. I remember the year of 1991 quite well because that was my first ever ski trip with comprehensive school while I was in the 2nd year. New Year 1991-1992 we went. St Johann im Tyrol. By coach of course.
Sorry back onto topic!
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Snowface71, I'd stick with the CSIA ISIA. Your CSIA Level 2 and a season's teaching under your belt should be viable in Austria as I know of people who have gotten work with just a BASI Level 1!! (though I don't know if they had to be registered as a trainee Anwarter first) BTW while Anwarter is supposed to be equivalent to BASI Level 2, I've seen several (yes, including young ones!) who I could not imagine would pass BASI Level 2.
In Zermatt, Summit certainly employs BASI Level 2s and I'd be surprised if they didn't consider the CSIA Level 2 as fully equivalent. Personally I don't think there's a significant difference between these levels - depends too much on where and when you take them and who the trainer is. I've certainly met a few people I've been a little surprised to find passed BASI Level 2, though overall the level still seems higher than the old Grade III. Except at entry level, most systems will make you take a step down if to join their system (ie afaik BASI Level 2 only gives you exemption from CSIA Level 1 for the purposes of doing the CSIA Level 3). Anyway, I also know of people who have gotten work elsewhere in Switzerland with no qualifications at all.
It would seem to me that unless aiming for ISTD &/or France, which should certainly be the aim if to make a career of it in Europe, then BASI's ISIA would just be an unnecessary and expensive diversion for you. All IMHO.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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No way is anwaerter a real equivalent of level 2 although as I discussed with you last week, the Austrians employ l2 basi as an anwaerter equivalent. This appears only because they have no equivalent. The next level is Isia (Landeslehrer) and despite peoples feeelings on the matter, covers the modules required by ISIA and is above BASI L2. The Austrians are also willing to employ BASI L1 as Anwaerter (they appear make the rules up as they go along and employ "trainees" as they see fit) although some of the L1 Basi "Trainees" ski at a higher ability than some of the so called qualified Anwaerters. And also some of the anwaerters and BASI L1's ski/board with a much higher proficiency than BASI ISIA's and Landeslehrers. "Shagger K..." is a prime example, wherever he may be. Really P'd off a so called (wiggly hipped) Landeslehrer from Wien.
Sorry Christian, if you're reading, but you really must do something about those hips. It ain't sexy no more. (Not that you ever was.)
Stick to a system that suits your aspirations. Chopping and changing may not be the best way forward. What about sticking with CSIA and supplementing with the relevant Austrian, BASI, French off piste and second discipline courses. despite rivalries, I sure the relevant authorities would appreciate the effort.
If you do change - make a full commitment, despite the cost.
I await flaming with relish.
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FAQ
See below for what I'm on about, not that it makes a difference to 