 Poster: A snowHead
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OK, so I've been to Austria (Ski Welt region), and to Canada twice (whistler and Panorama).
I'm wanting a 1 week trip next January (24th likely), with my other half and brother. I was originally thinking about Austria, partly because of the foor - but I'm now starting to go towards France. Mainly because I've not been there for Skiing so want to see what it's like.
So rightly or wrongly, I have this perception in my mind that wherever I go in France, whenever, it's going to be busy, with lots of rude people. I'm sure that's probably quite unfounded! From what I've seen, some of the big ski areas look fantastic, and its the skiing ultimately I'm going for.
Can anyone give their thoughts? My ideas for places to go are going towards the more well known, high reosrts, thinking Val D, Tignes - mainly because I've heard quite a bit about them. Recommendations welcome!!
Austria I found great, but there were a number of rude people about, bars smoky, and pretty busy fairly often, however the dinner included with our accomodation each night was sublime. I think the last 2 years being in Canada, was a little pampered in that with the exception of the food, everything was pretty perfect (food just a bit rubbish though!)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'm completely the otherway around to you...
Always gone to France for my skiing - love it there, found it hard to tear myself away and book somewhere else. This year i have finally taken the plunge and booked Italy for January and Austria for March - although i have to admit that i am a touch nervous about both!
I never found a problem with rude people in France - not even in Courchevel. The food is great, the skiing is great and the people are great - although i think that being able to speak French makes that last bit easier.
I've also never found France that busy; in Courchevel I think the longest wait for a lift was maybe 10 mins at peak time in the morning but the ski area was so huge that once up the mountain queues or crowds were never a problem.
Haven't been to Val D or Tignes so can't comment on those, but i'm sure there will be lot's of others who will add to this thread who have.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The skiing in France is far better, the bars are none smoking and I have never come across any rude people. We went twice last year (la plagne and risoul) and despite the second time being easter week it was never busy. Like the above poster, as always we are going to france next year (twice hopefully) but have also booked a trip to Austria for the apres ski - in France, there isn't really a lot of apres ski as the french tend to go home to eat and then go out at 11pm which isn't ideal - the ritish presence in Val and Meribel means the apres there is a bit mroe like austria. France is more expensive to eat out and drink but the food is lovely. If you are most interested in good skiing then you will be very impressed with France.
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France is cool, worked there for the past 6 years or so, the people (as much as you can blanket an entire race!) are generally nice but you do get the odd funny fellow wherever you go, luck of the draw I suppose! Recently fell in love with Austria and after 2 years there to be honest, for me nothing can compare, generally chilled people, good partying, awesome skiing, beautiful country! I think next season the non-smoking ban will start to come into force, though dont quote me on that one, and as I said you can get rude people anywhere. Next season we're off to the Zillertal, decided it was the best choice for us after spending last season travelling round the resorts in Switzerland and Austria, seriously good skiing and plenty of terrain choice...nice! oh, and maybe Canada for a month aswell!! Tough life.....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Libertine wrote: |
| The skiing in France is far better, ... If you are most interested in good skiing then you will be very impressed with France. |
No sweeping generalisations there then 
Maybe you could corroborate that by saying where you have skied and why you thought it better.
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| Libertine wrote: |
| The skiing in France is far better, the bars are none smoking and I have never come across any rude people. |
You're insinuating that Austria has crap skiing, bars full of smoke and is a nation full of rude people. Get off your high horse.
Austria is great for skiing and everytime I've been I've had great skiing conditions and fresh powder. Every time. Also, the people are friendly as any other tourist-driven area. To the OP, you get rude people everywhere it's not nation-dependant ffs.
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eddyr, Well, there's a huge difference in the various french resorts, so whichever one you pick it won't be typical of the others! If you go to a 'purpose built' resort (ie: one that was constructed initially in one piece where there was no village before) you won't find much atmosphere because people don't really live there. If you want atmosphere of any sort you should check the historical info before deciding. Then ... do you want a huge ski circus or a smaller area? If going for the 600kms sort of circus, then you are looking at Espace Killy, Les Arcs/La Plagne, Les Trois Vallees or Les Portes du Soleil. Having said that there are many other very big resorts (in this area there are 3). There are also smaller places that are not so well-known to the brits.
The french are not generally rude, but you'll find it makes a big difference if you start by asking if they speak english. Not surprisingly they find it rude for foreigners to just assume they will speak a foreign language!  In addition, you should say bonjour to whoever you come across, and always say please and thank you. If you do this the natives will be friendly and helpful. 
So - decide what you're looking for, then chose the resort and only then book. Nowhere will be busy at the end of Jan.
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eddyr, I have skied in Austria: Zell am See, Solden, Saalbach and booked for St Anton Jan 09 etc and have skied a fair few resorts in France: 3V's, Tignes Serre Chevalier, Portes du Soleil. I have also skied several Swiss resorts but not stayed in Italy yet, and I can honestly say they were all great, but for different reasons and the only place I have come across rude people was Zermatt and they were British snobs. Given the choice, I favour Austria as it is a little cheaper, for the livelier Apres, and the scenery the worst food I've had was in La Panoramique in Tignes, but that was a bit better this year.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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eddyr,
Skied all three countries and I think anyone who misses out on any of them for preconceptions such as rudeness, poor food etc. will miss out on great skiing which they can all offer. French purpose built has its drawbacks a lot of the resorts are expensive, many are ugly in high season they can be crowded but in late January prices should be a bit lower the snow should be good and the pistes relatively uncrowded.
I'd go for it
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eddyr, I've been to both and had good holidays in both.
Trying not to get caught up in sweeping generalisations, as the welcome you receive depends a lot on your attitude towards your hosts. Whereas the Austrians don't feel it demeaning and are almost eager to speak English, the French give their warmest welcome to those who speak or attempt to speak their language and can be a little cold to those who assume they will deal in English from the outset. This has been my experience and of those I have travelled with.
France plus points: Huge piste & lift networks, Huge variety of skiing, High altitude skiing, Good food (if you can avoid the melted cheese  ).
Minus points: Some ugly ski stations, Busy School holidays, Top resorts can be expensive
So find yourself a cute village with links into a large ski area with snowsure slopes, brush up your schoolboy French and avoid school hols and you'll have a blast! 
Champagny, Montchavin, Samoens, Les Brevieres, St Martin de Belleville and Vaujany come to mind but they will be quiet in the evening. If you want to party  , you'll have to hit somewhere like Val D or Cham and stump up the cash for the privilege.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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easiski wrote:
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The french are not generally rude, but you'll find it makes a big difference if you start by asking if they speak english. Not surprisingly they find it rude for foreigners to just assume they will speak a foreign language! In addition, you should say bonjour to whoever you come across, and always say please and thank you. If you do this the natives will be friendly and helpful.
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I think this is the way to approach anyone when you are a guest in their country and you will get the best possible reaction as a result.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Timmaah, I know it's not nation dependent - hence my statement its probably unfounded, I just found Canada way more polite the whole way through (on the slopes) than I did in Austria. Perhaps that was just luck, I don't know.
Like I expected - a mix of some advocates for Austria, some for France! I'd really like to get somewhere Half board if possible as I really like having dinner always sorted for you in the evenings, so I think my decision may lie with what kind of accommodation I can get within budget. My annoying dilemma is my brother has only just finished Uni, and although myself and my father will no doubt subsidise the trip rather heavily - I do still have to stick to reasonable costs where I can.
Out of interest, the dates I mention (24th Jan - 7 nights), are they clear holiday wise in both countries?
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eddyr, I've been to France skiing 6 times, Austria 3 times and Italy 1 time. Observations were as follows:-
France-as others have said France has some enormous high mileage ski areas, 3V, Portes du Soleil, Espace Killy etc although like others have mentioned it is possible to ski at smaller villages that are not far from larger areas if you don't want the purpose built resort experience. I did think my room each time in France was a bit small for the money I paid compared to Austria and Italy and not kept as nice decor wise as I'd experienced in Italy and Austria for the same money, but then perhaps it depends on where you go. Food was nice, no problems with that either in the hotels themselves or out and about in restaurants. Apres ski is as others have said, unless you're in a resort with a high proportion of British travellers like Meribel or Val D'Isere it's not the same as what you can expect to see in Austria.
Austria-I loved it and the whole atmosphere. Lovely hotels as far as I can see, often for the same kind of money as what I've paid to go to France for a week I've had a hotel with a pool often or wellness facilities which are really welcome after being out skiing all day, but again this might depend on the resort chosen etc. I don't really know if Austria in the grand scheme of things is definitely cheaper than France. Ski areas are obviously not as big or as high (with exceptions) as what you get in France but the couple of times I've been to Austria it's been plenty skiing for a week anyhow. Food-lovely and plenty of it. After skiing France loads this last season it's time for Austria next season-starting with St Anton in Jan for me. Apres ski-good, lots going on usually. The resorts I went to though were quite small villages, haven't been to the big Austrian resorts yet.
Italy-only been the once-ski area good (Madonna di Campiglio) food and hospitality fantastic. Food best I'd ever had although this may have been down to this particular hotel-Hotel Lorenzetti. Will go back one day.
As for rudeness, well you always get one or two funny people wherever you go but I always adopt the apporach of treat people how you'd like to be treated yourself and on that basis I've never had any bad experiences regardless of country.
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You know it makes sense.
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eddyr, you're clear of French Hols, these start 7th Feb 09 for 4 weeks. Austria has hols the first 3 weeks of Feb depending on state, but is also visited heavily by Germans, Dutch and East Europeans, but last week in Jan shouldn't be a problem, though it's race weekend in Kitzbuhel 23-25th Jan 09.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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luigi, Yes - you're right, but sadly an awful lot of people do assume, and don't realise how rude it is to the host nation! 
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Poster: A snowHead
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easiski wrote:
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luigi, Yes - you're right, but sadly an awful lot of people do assume, and don't realise how rude it is to the host nation!
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You can just imagine the reception a French person would receive in the UK if they made no attempt to speak English and unapologetically expected everyone to reply in French. I bet it would be a damn sight ruder than anything the French have been known to dish out!
Saying that, some countries seem to speak English more readily as they accept it as a necessary means of international communication (due to British Empire and recent US commercial dominance) rather than a slight on their native tongue. This is something I don't think the French have come to terms with yet, still dreaming of the glory days of their Empire when French vied with English as an international lingua franca.
Or maybe I'm over-analysing? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
You can just imagine the reception a French person would receive in the UK if they made no attempt to speak English and unapologetically expected everyone to reply in French. I bet it would be a damn sight ruder than anything the French have been known to dish out!
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Absolutely. I recall a Frenchman on a bus in London, in a big rush because of having to get a eurostar from Waterloo. He got on the bus, and very apologetically in halting English, was asking whether he was on the right bus. He was lucky in finding two people who could speak a bit of French right away - we could assure him the bus went to Waterloo, and tell him where to head for Eurostar. He was really grateful, quite funny, and everybody felt good about it. But if he'd just got on and spoken to us in fast, idiomatic French, we'd not have understood him, and would probably have decided he was a rude foreigner. But Brits abroad do this sort of thing absolutely all the time. I saw one couple of middle aged English women march into a tourist office in a tiny French ski station a couple of years ago and just say "Where's the nail bar?". No "Bonjour", no "vous parlez Anglais?", not even a polite precursor in English (eg. "Could you possibly tell me whether there is a nail bar around here".
I felt ashamed of them. And had to translate "nail bar" for a girl who spoke a bit of English, and was absolutely charming, and willing to help, but to whom it had never occurred that these silly bints expected the place to have a "nail bar".
Your best chance of being welcomed, and finding friendly locals, is to go to one of the smaller resorts where people don't have to cope with this kind of mindless and thoughtless Brit all the time. My French is not great, to put it politely, but I have never yet encountered anybody being less than civil, and most people downright pleasant. I did hear a young French lad telling his mate, as I rather awkardly manoevred my car into a parking space, that Englishwomen couldn't drive! I just grinned at him and said that French lads were cheeky and he had the grace to look a bit apologetic and we just had a laugh.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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T Bar, wot he said...
ignore those with an agenda and the narrow minded with their prejudices about the French/Austrians/English/all-of-the-above; every country has the same propotion of rude people
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I had a fun experience in Moutiers a couple of years back. I managed my "Bonjour, Parlez vous Anglais?", but to my horror the hotel receptionist shook his head and said "non". For the next 20 mins we played pictionary, him telling me what time breakfast was, me asking where I could park my car etc etc. Not my 1st choice of way to communicate, but it worked - we both had a laugh.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| red 27 wrote: |
T Bar, wot he said...
ignore those with an agenda and the narrow minded with their prejudices about the French/Austrians/English/all-of-the-above; every country has the same propotion of rude people |
Apart from the Dutch who admit they are rude.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Elizabeth B wrote: |
| I had a fun experience in Moutiers a couple of years back. I managed my "Bonjour, Parlez vous Anglais?", but to my horror the hotel receptionist shook his head and said "non". For the next 20 mins we played pictionary, him telling me what time breakfast was, me asking where I could park my car etc etc. Not my 1st choice of way to communicate, but it worked - we both had a laugh. |
Similar story here... stayed at a small B&B in Les Contamines booked through some French website. The advert said that English was spoken. When we arrive, the landlady opens up for us and speaks no english whatsoever - not even a Hello. Turns out it's her husband who speaks some English and he is away doing a week long cross country ski (that was his job).
The landlady was one of the nicest people i have ever met, truly a lovely, lovely person. She loved to sit and chat at breakfast etc. OK for me as i speak some French but whenever i was away, the landlady and my partner would spend 20 minutes communicating with hand gestures and/or by pointing at pictures in an encyclopaedia!
Go only knows what would have happened if i hadn't spoken any French!
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Given the choice I would prefer Austria. I like the rolling hills and slightly more relaxed atmosphere. Also like the cheesy europop Apres. However France has alot to offer. Many high, snowsure resorts with glaciers.
I generally find Austria a bit cheaper than France
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The rude people you normally meet in French resorts tend to speak English! A generalisition I know but have not come accross too many rude French speaking people. Just make the effort to try the patter! Like IncogSkiSno, said you can find some rude brits almost everywhere!!! They are normally the type that like being kept in the "dark" (snobs).
At that time of the year you will not meet hordes of people as it is not high season wherever you go!
No doubt wherever you decide you will love it, after all sliding is sliding!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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pam w, frightening, isn't it...
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eddyr, Most places have pluses and minuses... I look at it like this... I have done a bit of homework, know roughly what to expect and I am going skiing..what could be bad about that? If it goes a bit wrong..call it an adventure.
I prefer smaller people orientated places... and the big french resorts can be a bit souless, IMV...except Chamonix which has a unique buzz.
I'd take a town/village over a purpose built resort but you might fnd the 3V's is your kind of thing. You'll not likely be dissapointed with the skiing, for sure.
For me, I like a little place like Le Grave, for example, which is so small, you would almost have seen everyone by the end of the week...very friendly..and they share your passion. Places with soul are the friendliest, IME.
Having said that, there is plenty about the 3V's or Espace Killy that would get me back there......probably..
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Do suspect that where the cultures are slightly different people suspect the other is being rude. e.g. It's normal in certain central european countries to say hello when you meet people even if you don't know them. The fact that the Brit didn't say hello when enterting the ski hut possibly starts the cycle of "virtual rudeness".
As for being friendly, it's the same as England (e.g. London isn't as friendly as Royston Vasey ).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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DB, No, but in London you're less like to be introduced to strange Bestial people like David at the "Local Shop"
What La Plagne like? I see its part of Paradiski - with Ski Independence they're dishing out free lift passes for January bookings, which is a good caveat...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Now I didn't know that .....
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Royston Vasey is the real name of comedian Roy 'Chubby' Brown
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eddyr,
I'm surprized you found Austria rude. When you say
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| Austria I found great, but there were a number of rude people |
what did they do? Were they Austrians or just German speaking?
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DB, To be honest, don't really know- I found the crush at the base of some of the lifts less than decent - really a case of who can barge the most gets up first, the lift operators for the most part obviously didn't want to be there and were happy to make sure you knew that, and the home runs at the latter end of the day were at times a little hairraising - i know my g/f had a few shouts from unfriendly 50ish women who wanted to get through with the path of least resistance! (ie. get out of my way I'm not stopping, I've been skiing since before you were born).
Don't get me wrong, for the most part it was OK- however we never had any of that during either trip to Canada, it was almost rediculously over friendly there!
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You know it makes sense.
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eddyr, I suspect that the lift queue issue would be as bad in France as in Austria. I find the Italians are the worst 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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eddyr,
Yes central europeans don't seem to of grasped the concept of making a queue but as Elizabeth B says it's not just Austria. To be honest the percentage of Austrian skiers on the slopes esp. in the main resorts is very low as many of the locals are working, many choose to ski at the tail ends of the season plus there's only ca 8 million Austrians. It's probably the Dutch who were rude to you
As for the "get out of my way business" never heard of that before. The only situation I can think of where it would warrant clarification is if you were stopped ( usually at the side of the piste) and they thought you might set off without looking up the hill. Not so much a rude warning but a clarification so that no one gets hurt.
If it happens again whip your camera or mobile phone with camera and take a picture of them then take it to Authorities. If they've been skiing that long then they should be good enough to adhere to the rules (where the downhill skier has right of way in almost all cases) and avoid learner skiers.
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Poster: A snowHead
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eddyr, so the lift operators aren't all smiling? Who cares? Obviously they're not happy when they see the abundance of people before them skiing their mountains. Hardly a reason to make an ill-informed sweeping statement about Austria.
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FAQ
