 Poster: A snowHead
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Having been a customer of Insure & Go for a while (never made a claim), I'm now having serious concerns about their methods.
I was sent a letter by them, telling me that they were going to automatically renew my policy on 16th March. If I didn't want this to happen, then I needed to contact them. I phoned them up, and was told that they would call me back. They didn't.
I was then sent an email, again spelling out who I needed to email if I didn't want the automatic renewal. I emailed later that day, saying that under no circumstances were they to charge my credit card, and please would they contact me. I then went away to the MSB.
Today, I received my new travel insurance documents. They have billed my credit card. I have phoned up, and been told that they will refund the money, but it may take up to 10 days, and no, they can't pay any interest accrued.
In what way is this legal? Surely they cannot bill my credit card without authorisation? Any ideas where I can go with this complaint as their customer services aren't being helpful in the least.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Elizabeth B, I think I may have already told you this, but the renewal letter I received from my insurer (Direct Travel) stated that unlike car and home insurance policies, they could not automatically renew travel policies. If I still have it, I will quote the exact wording later.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Helen Beaumont, that'd be useful, thanks.
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Elizabeth B, its pretty standard practice with a lot of things, our car insurance usually has the "do nothing" and we will automatically renew your policy. I'm sure if you read their terms and conditions, which you would have agreed to in taking out the policy, they will have covered themselves for this.
I cancelled with them a few years back and at the time they were fine about it and sent an email to confirm
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Elizabeth B, it's sharp practice. Technically there's no such thing as a renewal... each year is a new policy, they're just using your existing details to create the policy that's all. Seems odd because I would have thought they'd need you to accept a medical screening declaration and declare any changes. Best way forward is to tell them that you're immediately going to take it up with the Insurance Ombudsman and the FSA on the basis that you've not been "treated fairly" in line with the FSA's Treating Customers Fairly guidelines. The potential hassle that a real complaint will cause them is a huge pain so they'll agree to your demands if reasonable. Contact details for FOS and FSA are in the policy details they should have sent you.
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I think it all depends on the tems of the specific policy, some say that they have the option to renew if you do not inform them otherwise. I also think that you can cancel within a specified period so get that email out, get going and ditch them 
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Boris, it may be standard practice, although Direct Travel certainly couldn't or wouldn't do so, but ElizabethB had specifically asked them not to renew until they had spoken to her.
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Elizabeth B, Mr HH had a very similar experience with car insurance recently:
Took out car insurance on credit card, checked terms and conditions, telephoned, emailed and wrote on various occasions to confirm his right to deny them a continuous credit card authorisation
Received notification of their intention to renew if he didn't notify them, he telephoned, emailed and wrote to reconfirm his denial of a continuous credit card authorisation
Received a letter from them demanding payment as their credit card payment request had been denied (luckily his card number had been changed recently) queue round of nasty letters demanding payment, demanding proof that he had re-insured elsewhere, demanding the return of their insurance certificate
Now awaiting a response to letter of complaint that they have failed to follow their own procedures, they have breached credit card law by attempting to take an unauthorised payment etc etc....result? Resounding silence!!
Sharks the lot of them....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Helen Beaumont, I'm not disputing that in this case they shouldn't have gone ahead with the renewal - clearly they are in the wrong. Just stating that IME it is quite common for companies to automatically renew you unless you call and cancel. Even organisations like National Trust do this
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I find automatic renewal quite useful, being terminally disorganised, but one would like to think that 'no means no'. The insurance company obviously made a mistake, accidental or not; I suppose you could chase them for the cost of putting the premium on your credit card, but if they don't want to cough up it won't be worth much effort trying to make them.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Boris, I realise that it is standard practice, but when I contacted them TWICE through different means telling them UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WERE THEY TO BILL ME, then I think that it is unreasonable for them to do so.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Elizabeth B, I agree with you, completely unreasonable. I assume that your original agreement with them allows them to renew by default, but obviously they should not have done so. Assuming that they refund the premium, I doubt that there's much else of a practical nature you can do.
homphomp, I have a vague idea that insurance companies are supposed to notify the authorities if motor insurance is not renewed, presumably in attempt to reduce the disgracefully high levels of uninsured driving. That may account for some of your husband's correspondence from them. (Which is not to say that they aren't sharks.).
I would expect to be able to opt out of automatic renewal when signing on for an insurance policy or anything else.
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Elizabeth B, taking money without consent is called theft in my book. That's a criminal offence, not breach of contract.
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You know it makes sense.
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My renewal letter from Direct Travel says the following.
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| Because travel policies do not continue in the same way as motor or household insurance ,please complete the enclosed application or telephone........... |
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Elizabeth B, yes so do I!!!! I don't think I have said it is ok have I? All I have said is that it is common practice for companies to send out automatic renewals - but I agree if you then cancel or tell them not to, they are wrong in taking money
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Poster: A snowHead
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Elizabeth B, automatic renewal is widely used, and is often seen as a convenience. (I see the SCGB just renewed my membership!)
The lack of good arrangements for you to cancel ahead of renewal is bad practice.
You might overlook them billing you as an administrative error, but given they have been told and failed to react twice they should now be going out of their way to make things up to you.
In this context, it does not take 10 days to refund a credit card. My business accepts credit cards, and if I need to refund someone I can do it right now. Ten days is perhaps what it takes for their internal processes, but that's not OK. They are again taking their incompetence and trying to make it your problem.
I suggest you phone them tomorrow morning and request a refund same-day, and for them to confirm by email when they have done it. If they refuse, you threaten to ask your credit card issuer to recall the payment.
Merchants are appropriately wary of this, as they get charged when the credit card company recalls a payment. And if it happens often, they can find themselves losing the ability to accept credit card payments.
You've tried asking nicely. Time to just tell them how it's going to be!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I must admit, I kind of hoped Insure and Go would automatically renew my policy this year - they didn't and I had to do all the form filling again on-line. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I will be unlikely to use them again, as if they can't sort out comunication with a potential customer, what will they be like with a claimant?
Anyway, email sent to their complaints department - apparently I couldn't file a complaint via the phone 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Elizabeth B, Stop using Insure & Go and start using Snowcard.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Elizabeth B,
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I will be unlikely to use them again, as if they can't sort out comunication with a potential customer, what will they be like with a claimant?
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....I am about to find out. We are with them and have just submitted a claim as we have just had to cancel our holiday due to illness  Lets hope their claims dept is better.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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sarah, I'd be interested in how you get on - please let us know.
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Elizabeth - contact your credit card company they are jointly and serverly liable (with Insure & go) for the transaction. That assumes it is a c/card not a debit card. In my experience c/card companies are quite proactive at clamping down on merchants who abuse the system.
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Bode Swiller,
Good insight, good call
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| andy wrote: |
| Elizabeth B, taking money without consent is called theft in my book. That's a criminal offence, not breach of contract. |
You book is incorrect in law.
It is only theft if done dishonestly, and with intent to permanently deprive.
A mistake, which this almost certainly is, cannot be theft.
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alex_heney, not sure it's a mistake, it could be deliberate marketing policy. However, as there is almost certainly the means to recover, I can't see it's theft.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| homphomp wrote: |
Elizabeth B, Mr HH had a very similar experience with car insurance recently:
Took out car insurance on credit card, checked terms and conditions, telephoned, emailed and wrote on various occasions to confirm his right to deny them a continuous credit card authorisation
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Unfortunately, that is a "right" he doesn't have.
This is absolutely scandalous in my book, but is the reason many companies prefer to take such paymentys by CC rather than DD (which you do have the absolute right to cancel).
You shoud have exactly the same rights to cancel CCCAs as DDs in my opinion. But you don't. They can only be cancelled by the beneficiary.
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Received notification of their intention to renew if he didn't notify them, he telephoned, emailed and wrote to reconfirm his denial of a continuous credit card authorisation
Received a letter from them demanding payment as their credit card payment request had been denied (luckily his card number had been changed recently) queue round of nasty letters demanding payment, demanding proof that he had re-insured elsewhere, demanding the return of their insurance certificate
Now awaiting a response to letter of complaint that they have failed to follow their own procedures, they have breached credit card law by attempting to take an unauthorised payment etc etc....result? Resounding silence!!
Sharks the lot of them.... |
You were actually quite lucky here, as many credit card companies will still "honour" a continuous authority request even when that card number is no longer valid for the account. I have heard of it happening even when the account had apparently been closed completely.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I would take them to task under their complaints procedure. Under FSA guidelines on complaints handling they will either have to log this as a short complaint and resolve it within 24 hours (ie, you'll get your refund through straight away) or a long complaint in which there are strict timescales they have to adhere to namely they must acknowledge your complaint within 5 days, they then have 4 weeks to investigate it and must wither send their final response or a holding letter at this stage which gives them another 4 weeks, at this point you should have your final response. Once you have the final response you can take this to the FOS (financial ombudsman service), who may award you compenstaion for the delay its take to resolve etc, might only be a £50 gesture but better than nothing and companies operating with sharp practices like that really shouldnt be allowed to get away with it. Discussing poor service in a forum spreads the word but it doesnt necessarily hold the company accountable which if we wnat service to improve is what needs to happen.
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snobunni, What can be quite effective is telling the company that you are discussing their poor service on a busy internet forum though (this is a comment based on experience!)
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You know it makes sense.
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| alex_heney wrote: |
| homphomp wrote: |
Elizabeth B, Mr HH had a very similar experience with car insurance recently:
Took out car insurance on credit card, checked terms and conditions, telephoned, emailed and wrote on various occasions to confirm his right to deny them a continuous credit card authorisation
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Unfortunately, that is a "right" he doesn't have. |
I have successfully stopped CC continuous payments by reminding the CC company that it is my account, not its or the benficiary's, and telling it that I had no intention of repaying any payment made by the CC company contrary to my specific instruction. Each time a CC company is asked for a payment by a beneficiary it has to decide whether to make the payment; if it has received notice from the CC account holder that they will not repay it, it would be foolish to do so, and I doubt if it would be successful in obtaining repayment. I have also been grateful on occasion that CC companies have made a continuous payment on an old CC account when I have forgotten to notify the benficiary of the CC change.
In Elizabeth B's case, if the insurer refunds the money, I'm not sure that there is a problem other than inconvenience, best dealt with by not using that insurer again. They ought to refund any consequential cost, such as interest, if they want to have a chance of keeping her as a customer, but that is unlikely to be enough to attract the interst of an official body. I can't see what anyone expects insurance ombudsmen or anyone else to do.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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richmond, nevertheless, having been in correspondence with a CC card company myself some years ago, my understanding is that alex_henney is correct:
| alex_henney wrote: |
| You should have exactly the same rights to cancel CCCAs as DDs in my opinion. But you don't. They can only be cancelled by the beneficiary. |
So, if at all possible, do NOT enter into a CCCA.
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Poster: A snowHead
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achilles, I don't doubt it, but I'm just pointing out that CC companies may well listen if you say, 'No, CC company, I admire your ability to persuade retailers to pay 2%+ of their take to you so that paupers who don't use CCs have to subsidise those of us who do, and your cunning ways of drawing people into debt that they cannot afford to service or repay, but I am not going to repay you if you fork out money to company X contrary to my explicit instruction.' (or words to that effect).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Megamum wrote: |
| snobunni, What can be quite effective is telling the company that you are discussing their poor service on a busy internet forum though (this is a comment based on experience!) |
Good point, however a competitor to the company i work for found out to their cost in recent legal action that comments on service in internet forums are not admissable evidence of poor service.
I'd still recommend formal complaints process, Insure and Go will have to submit complaints analysis to the FSA and it give the route into the FOS.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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richmond, yup. You could say that. And you could successfully be taken to court. I imagine the cc company in your case leaned on the beneficiary to save the hassle of a court case - but there is no guarantee that it will do so - or succeed - every time. That said, I am pleased you did succeed - and agree with Alex that the law should not permit the present situation. I also agree with your comments on the unpleasant action of the cc companies in drawing people into debt. Very much a case of consumer beware, I'm afraid.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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achilles, you're right it may not work, but if you're in the position of having one of these continuing things which yo uwish to stop, a word with the CC company is worthwhile. That's all I'm saying.
I'm not sure that you're right in suggesting that the CC company could recover the cash if you have given explicit instructions to the contrary. The rules and regs allow them to recover money which they have paid on a continuing CC arrangement without your explicit instruction to pay. It doesn't follow automatically that they will be able to recover money paid by them contrary to explicit instructions not to. There must be an expectation of 'good faith' by the CC company, which they may not be able to establish if they ignore your instruction. I agree that it ought to be made clear that you can stop an automatic payment by instruction to your CC company.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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richmond, Google 'credit card continuous payment authority'. It makes sober reading.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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achilles, indeed. What is absent, though, is any clear statement of where one stands if a payment under a continuous authority is made by a CC company contrary to your instructions. The CC co's view is clearly that it's not their problem, but it's unclear that this is the case. What is clear is that it will be harder work to get away without repaying the CC company than if the DD rules applied. It is also clear that whatever else you do, you must notify the beneficiary that it shouldn't take the money (as Elizabeth B did, fruitlessly).
I'm still of the view that if you do it properly, notify the benfactor and the CC co, you would not have to repay the CC co if they nevertheless paid. It should be made absolutely clear.
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Megamum,
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sarah, I'd be interested in how you get on - please let us know.
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Just to let you know that Insure and Go dealt with our claim within approx 3-4 weeks and paid up everything apart from the flight taxes and the credit card charge levied by the tour operator. We had to complete a medical form and our GP had to complete a section of it. My husband did tell them that he could see nothing in the small print in the policy about credit card charges being excluded but they still withheld them. He thinks he probably won't pursue this as it's not a huge amount of money and to be honest we are relieved that they paid up without any hassle. I know they should have done with the Dr's certificate but it was still a relief!
Best wishes to all.
Roll on next season 
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Elizabeth B, We've been with Insureandgo for a few years & about a month before our policy expiration they write to us advising us of the forthcoming expiration & offering us an additional discount if we renewed before the policy expired. The letter said nothing about an 'automatic' renewal. We renewed via Quidco to get even more discount.
Insureandgo settled Deb's claim a couple of years ago within 2/3 weeks with no problem at all.
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