 Poster: A snowHead
|
veeeight, I sincerely hope not. the 'fan club' is getting a bit embarassing TBH! I did not take what you wrote as a slight, but do hold to my belief (childish as it may seem).
skimottaret, You mentioned marketing earlier. I hope no-one thinks I take all this trouble just to scare up a bit of business - that is the by-product, not the reason.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
veeeight,
| Quote: |
specific threads in BzK may be pitched at a level appropriate to someone say wishing to sit his/her instructors exams this season, and therefore the technical language and terminology in that specific thread *will* be used (primarily so that they can converse with their examiners intelligently, and secondarily not to dumb it down) - in which case bleats of "please dumb it down for me" may not be welcome at that specific moment in time.
|
Absolutely, and I say for the umpteenth time that I would try not to trespass on such discussions, except maybe to ask for some slight clarification, which would not be worthy of its own thread.
| Quote: |
The other thing that is highly irritating to many on here is the assertion that the ski instructors on here that mangle the techcy discussions must, by implication, be crap instructors as they are incapable of explaining things simply (like easiski does ).
|
I think that's a very fair point. Who knows - except for those that have met you - what ANY of you are like on the hill? It's my experience, however, from being taught various subjects (skiing included) that those who can explain theory without resorting to jargon, as well as being able to demonstrate the theories in practice, tend to be the better teachers. But that's maybe an over-generalisation...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
Absolutely, and I say for the umpteenth time that I would try not to trespass on such discussions, except maybe to ask for some slight clarification, which would not be worthy of its own thread.
|
That would be reasonable. But not wishing to labour the point, your interjections in recent threads have not been of that ilk.
| Quote: |
I think that's a very fair point. Who knows - except for those that have met you - what ANY of you are like on the hill? It's my experience, however, from being taught various subjects (skiing included) that those who can explain theory without resorting to jargon, as well as being able to demonstrate the theories in practice, tend to be the better teachers.
|
And you were doing so well up till then......
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Quote: |
skimottaret, You mentioned marketing earlier. I hope no-one thinks I take all this trouble just to scare up a bit of business - that is the by-product, not the reason.
|
Wasnt me i think you meant Mosha Marc..... I think networking is a lot different from marketing...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| easiski wrote: |
| skimottaret, You mentioned marketing earlier. I hope no-one thinks I take all this trouble just to scare up a bit of business - that is the by-product, not the reason. |
Sorry, I post at work (non-IT) so get about a nano-second to compose a reply before posting.
I was trying to make just the same point you made. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| skimottaret wrote: |
| ..... I think networking is a lot different from marketing... |
You do? I thought it was just another facet.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Not applying this to anyone in particular, but if someone is an active participant on the forum then, for me, they are in credit and if they have something to sell and don't overstep whatever rules there are, it doesn't bother me... but when people just use certain sections of the forum, I might start to wonder about motives..... But then, not that it is any business of mine, as such...
I don't see that difference either, but there you go
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Mosha Marc wrote: |
| skimottaret wrote: |
| ..... I think networking is a lot different from marketing... |
You do? I thought it was just another facet. |
for sure but you can network without having anything to market.
Networking to me is about helping people, getting assistance in return and making connections, with obtaining business secondary.
Marketing is primarily about trying to obtain business.
For instance i havent got a single renters for my apartment from Snowheads... that isnt why I'm here, but if i did it woudl be a nice by product.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Thu 15-11-07 12:02; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
JT, Sleep well then. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
skimottaret, y'know I honestly didn't know you had a "Beautiful 2 bed Apartment in Meribel-Mottaret with stunning views" until I read that post. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
Well thanks to everyone for the welcome - I can see my typing was very bad...hence the quip from one of the posters - I am not going to write anything about technique on these forums for the reasons I mentioned in my first post. Tactics and attitude are worth writing about but I haven't read anything that is written accurately enough to be free from misinterpretation without a visual cue and I don't think I am able to teach in writing either. The BASI manual makes a lot of sense to me but I had had a lot of training from a BASI trainer before I first read it - it may not be useful to a skier who has learned for themselves, had a few ski lessons along the way but still has a lot of experience and time on the hill etc. I am also not going to reveal my identity in case I write controversial things here and touch on some raw nerves ! Skiing is very easy to teach to a beginner - it gets harder work when the pupil has had lots of skiing experience but does not actually understand the fundamental principles that work best - as employed by almost every pro skier - trying to undo years of misunderstanding and retrain the pupil to think differently in order that they can change their movements is what many of us do most of the time - it is fun but you do get a few along the way who think they know better - but all I have to do is allow them to totally humiliate themselves ...which they are usually very good at...and then they start to learn. Any other pros out there who recognise this scenario ????
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
krunchie63, you should give writing about technique a go, it is difficult to put across in words only but does sharpen and simplify your own thinking and understanding of the fundamentals.
Welcome to snowheads, not trying to find out who you are but where bouts to you teach? are you a full timer in the mountains or a part timer in the UK?
And yes the most arrogant " i can get down..." types are the ones who need a bit of humbling to get them to listen.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Hurtle, I think we basically agree. But - to answer your earlier question - you do (like me) seem to sometimes drop a bit of condescention in to your posts - and seem very happy to identify this in other's posts but not see it in your own. The idea from an Instructor I alluded to as being based on cack was widely pointed out to be cack by virtually every professional skier who saw it. Your statement implied to me that only a few specified professionals talked clearly - implying that the rest didn't. My post implied that a few unspecified professionals had talked cack on occaision. There is the difference. ok?
anyway SUMO time?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
veeeight
| Quote: |
| That would be reasonable. But not wishing to labour the point, your interjections in recent threads have not been of that ilk. |
Some threads are clearer than others to distinguish as specialist territory. For instance, when GrahamN is exchanging dense prose with someone, I know it's not my territory at all - my guess is that nothing he does on skis, whether on snow or on dendix, bears any resemblance to my skiing, present or future! On the other hand, I gatecrashed the ILE thread by mistake, since I had assumed, for some reason, that ILE was something to which all skiers should aspire and it was only when somebody (can't remember who) implied that this was an obscure-ish racing technique, that I realised my mistake. Still, I guess that's what the thread about applying racing techniques to recreational skiing was all about. Anyway, I may have failed to stay away from purely technical threads, in which nobody other than high fliers were participating, but that was not for want of trying.
| Quote: |
| And you were doing so well up till then...... |
Honestly, do you not think that your reaction to my statement is a) over-sensitive and b) just a little patronising? I think I was expressing an entirely non-controversial, not to say widely-held, view about teaching in general.
stoatsbrother, I'm afraid that your fine distinction eludes me. What's SUMO, apart from wrestling?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Hurtle wrote: |
I think I was expressing an entirely non-controversial, not to say widely-held, view about teaching in general.
|
Was your point that people who can't write simply and with great insight also can't teach well? If it was I disagree.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
rob@rar,
| Quote: |
Was your point that people who can't write simply and with great insight also can't teach well? If it was I disagree.
|
Indeed no, I said 'explain' by which I meant 'express in words', not necessarily written words.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Hello skimottaret - I have been full time teaching in the alps (portes du soleil mainly) and pyrenees for 7 seasons until last season - good one to miss - this season will be teaching private clients in Montgenevre, St Anton and St Lary so far but will be based for most of the season in Chamonix. I still do not accept your challenge about writing technique for the reasons i gave before - no offence to anyone intended but every single thing I have read here and everywhere else I looked has been...well..less than helpful at best...garbage at worst....main reason being unless you know what the intended recipient of the info already does and understands the info will not be relevant even if you write it perfectly...hence my commenst about the BASI alpine manual. I ask all my clients some telling questions when i first meet them to help me know what they do and don't know..usually the amount they do is outweighted by what they don't...usually due to weak teaching from their previous torturers....or worse simply because they have learned from friends and books and magzines...etc etc....am I being too controversial here...you ca see why I won't tell you exactly who I am ...anyway...it's more fun for the listeners to provoke a bit of liveley discussion...but when it comes to ski movements, technique etc...I will probably write as badly as everyone else. We can talk about fundamental principles but many of the posters who are not pro skiers seem to look for quick fix tips....I can't do that unless I can see them and even then most issues come back to basics aout posture and balance and basic understanding about how to maneuvre your skis and why you want to do one thing in one situation and another in another. Bored yet ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
krunchie63,
| Quote: |
many of the posters who are not pro skiers seem to look for quick fix tips
|
In some embarrassment, I plead guilty to that. Lightbulb moment, but in a wrong way. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hurtle, urban dictionary is your friend.
I would explain the distinction - but I think you aren't going to agree so lets SUMO
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
In lightbulb moments,
you could of course ask yourself
"Quick fixes to what?"
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Hurtle - there is nothing wrong in asking it's just I don't know the reply you get will help or hinder you....or kill you !!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
krunchie63, Hope you stick it out here as it is always good to have an experienced teacher chip in on the conversations. It is a problem trying to prescribe solutions to people you havent seen ski so i can relate to you there. but, dive in you may pick up somthing here that gets you thinking.... 
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
Don't worry, I will keep popping in from time to time - I can't promise to do it that often once the lifts open up but who knows. I noticed nobody responded to a comment I made about Harald Harb and the phantom move.....did anyone recognise that or know what I meant ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| krunchie63 wrote: |
| I noticed nobody responded to a comment I made about Harald Harb and the phantom move.....did anyone recognise that or know what I meant ? |
I didn't spot the comment, put there's a large enough number on here who know all about REAL skiiers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
krunchie63, didnt see the bit on harold harb, have to say his stuff isnt discussed too much on this forum and he has a lot of detractors here who see him as a marketing guy with too much hype..
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
krunchie63, HH and "Anyone can be an expert skier" is a bit of a chestnut around here. We're mostly inured.
Though no one was objecting back when he was writing for SKI/IING magazines (US).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| rob@rar wrote: |
| Hurtle wrote: |
I think I was expressing an entirely non-controversial, not to say widely-held, view about teaching in general.
|
Was your point that people who can't write simply and with great insight also can't teach well? If it was I disagree. |
That was how I read it as well, thus my final comment.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
I have only had lessons from one poster on these threads and they were good.
If though you are trying to judge the quality of an instructor from what they post my own opinion is this. Anyone who has the enthusiasm for skiiing and instructing that in their own time they are busy posting here with explanations of how skis work and how to do turns clearly has far greater than average interest in the subject. Anyone with such an enthusiasm would in my books be likely to be an excellent instructor. They are clearly thinking about the what they are doing and it ain't just a job. I do confess that at times I have been slightly baffled by veeeight, 's written explanations but does that mean I would not like to get lessons? Absolutely not I am sure that anyone with such an interest in the subject would find a way of teaching me. Unfortunately I am not likely to go to Whistler any time soon to find out.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
veeeight, lawks, I'm sorry, but if I'd meant 'write', I'd have said 'write.' What I actually had in mind (note the sentence immediately preceding the one which has, yet again, caused unintended offence) was teachers on the mountain - I can't recall ever having seen any of them resort to writing, but I guess there's always a first time!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
T Bar, thanks for the compliment. No doubt I'll find time to attend a PSB, MSB, EoSB etc. sometime in the future....
Hurtle, for a self proclaimed wordsmith, what is absolutely crystal clear in your mind is amazingly often misread by others, as rob, others & I have demonstrated.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
veeeight, what exactly is the problem here? Am I supposed to be apologising for the fact you and rob@rar have made an incorrect inference from a few, completely unambiguous words? Even if I were a self-proclaimed wordsmith, as you put it (I have never claimed any such thing, I have merely informed you of my professional training, which obviously emphasises language) the words in question would not have needed a 'wordsmith' to compose them, let alone understand them. I simply cannot see how
| Quote: |
| those who can explain theory without resorting to jargon |
has suddenly turned into
| Quote: |
| write simply and with great insight |
As I've already said (and yet you continue to labour the point) any offence caused by the words was unintentional; I nevertheless see no reason to apologise for something that is perfectly clear and inoffensive on its face.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Hurtle, if you can't see the problem, then an apology is clearly unnecessary.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
veeeight, I give up. You are right. You are wonderful. You can do no wrong. You are indeed a god among men. Goodnight.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
It seems to me that virtually all threads on 's that are intended to be technical analytical discussions of skiing topics such as body mechanics, skiing related physics, specific drills, fault correction, etc. inevitably turn into an argument that things are getting unnecessarily overly complicated.
Ski instruction and coaching when on the slope should be clear and simple utilising plain illustrative language coupled with demonstration and not be confusing or complicated. However, when trying to discuss, understand and dissect detailed concepts on a forum like this what is wrong with descending into technical language and ski specific jargon? Both types of discussions have merit but don’t seem to mix well IMO.
Should threads in the BZK's forum be prefaced that a thread is EITHER about learning how to ski and is skewed towards coaching, instruction and tips that you would expect to hear on the slope, OR, is intended to be a detailed technical analysis on how skiing works, with technical terminology that may get geeky at times.
I see a place for both types of discussions here and would this help avoid the inevitable counter productive arguments that seem to crop up?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
edit -
Last edited by After all it is free  on Fri 16-11-07 11:39; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| skimottaret wrote: |
| Should threads in the BZK's forum be prefaced that a thread is EITHER about learning how to ski and is skewed towards coaching, instruction and tips that you would expect to hear on the slope, OR, is intended to be a detailed technical analysis on how skiing works, with technical terminology that may get geeky at times. |
The odd thing is, if I come across a topic that doesn't interest me, or is of questionable content, I stop reading and leave it to those who are 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I would like to apologise to any instructors who have tried to be helpful to me and have felt that all I do is spend my time "slagging" them off.
I think I'll leave the love-fest of BZK, as I'm not a member of any instructor fan club, but someone, like I said earlier, who wants to ski better.
(oh, and for the earlier poster who asked, ICU = Intensive Care Unit)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
:loL:
