 Poster: A snowHead
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Back in July, I started the process of confirming all of our trip bookings for this year's expedition to Austria over the New Year. Top of the list were of course the flights. We're a party of 4 couples and 3 kids, but due to geographical location, six of us wanted to fly from Stansted, and 5 from Leeds-Bradford.
After a day or so of looking at possibilities, I managed to get us all booked in with Jet2 from LB and Ryanair from STN, so that we all left around 0630 on the 27th December, and arrived at Salzburg within a 15 minute window. On the way back, we decided to fly back on Sunday 6th Jan, and to spend the Saturday night in a hotel in Salzburg so we could see the city and save £40 each on the flights, which paid for the hotel. Ourt outbound flights are 10 minutes apart.
We have airport parking, transfers, accommodation, ski hire and lift passes all pre-booked. I made all the arrangements, and I'm the closest thing the group has to a German speaker.
Now, with everything set in stone, and 4 months later, Ryanair sent me a nice e-mail today telling me that they've changed our outbound flights from 0630 to 1150  Our friends have the option of waiting for us, or travelling without us and trying to find and book into the accommodation without the person who booked it, and without anyone who speaks more German than is required to order a beer or a strudel. The owner is German, and speaks no English.
The options available to us are to accept the change and arrive 5 hours after the rest of our party, or reject the change and get either a credit or a full refund from Ryanair. Now of course, a full refund is useless - 4 months down the line, the prices of flights from all of the other carriers has gone up, so while we could have flown with Easyjet or BA to Innsbruck instead for £20 more originally, we wanted to travel with our friends and save the cash, and now it would cost us an extra £150 per person to change carriers.
Now, I realise that there's probably sweet FA I can do about this other than accept the change and swear never to book with Ryanair again, but if anyone has any ideas on whether we can screw them for compensation I'd be happy to hear them...
Oh, and if anyone suggests that you fly with Ryanair in the future, refuse to speak to them ever again 
Thanks,
Paul.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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ousekjarr, I havent got any suggestions unfortunately but that sucks !
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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U gets wot u pays for.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hi ousekjarr.
Not sure if this will help but if you change to the flight on the evening of the 26th thats gets there at 9pm you can stop in the Formula1 motel down the road and be there for your friends in the morning refreshed??? 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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ousekjarr, At least the flight is taking place. BA and EJ have dumped form a great height on many snowHeads in the past by pulling the flights. Its not the end of the world, get on and enjoy your holiday.
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ousekjarr, It is never nice when your plans are all blown out of the water because of circumstances that are out of your control especially when you are organising for other people too. I would advise not to dwell on it too greatly, you still have flights, it hasn't been totally cancelled and you will still have a great holiday. I am sure your friends are more than capable to be able to find their own way to the resort and maybe even source some items for your arrival.
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ousekjarr, I doubt you have any grounds for compensation, all you'll be able to get is your money back.
There have got to be more complaints about Ryanair on Snowheads than any other airline. I will never travel with them again, customer service is not high on their priorities.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ousekjarr,
26.99p with TAXES are the flights the night before from Stansted if you can switch your outbound leg or take the refund.
Wed, 26 Dec 07 Flight 306 18:00 Depart London Stansted (STN) 21:00 Arrive Salzburg (SZG)
I have seen a Formula one down the road if you stay the night. Otherwise get your mates to wait. My misses has had similar where Ryanair just remove a flight if not enough bums on seats or they need it elsewhere. That is why there customer service is NIL and the flights are cheap!!!! 
Over and out.....
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Hate to tell you this but you can't usually check into hotels until the afternoon on changeover days. Why not ring the hotel or email the hotel and explain your friends will be arriving ahead of you or get them to learn a smattering of German?
Its hardly the end of the world - annoying but occasionally you do hit minor hiccups with DIY.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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ousekjarr, Your pals will have no prob using the 5 hours... dump the gear at left luggage and grab a bus/taxi downtown. If they've never been, Salzburg is worth a visit. That time of year the Christmas market will be in full swing. No German is no problem. If they speak English slowly and loudly whilst making arm gestures, they'll be just fine
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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fatbob, "occasionally you do hit minor hiccups with DIY" in comparison with the planned hiccoughs you get with TOs? "It's only a four hour wait for the next flights in why would we want to run two buses?" 
Frosty the Snowman, BA and EJ might have operational problems but appear to make bigger efforts to get you to your destination.
ousekjarr, Hotel owner should be no problem with your chums arriving before you. In fact, I would have thought they'd need the names of everyone in the party in advance anyway. So advance arrival should be fine. Aren't the transfers more of an issue? If not, send your chums up in advance, they can get your lift passes sorted out and chat up the ski shop. And have some sort of weird Austrian home made spirit waiting for you.
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You know it makes sense.
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ousekjarr, You or your friends will not have any problem communicating with the locals, especially if they are in the tourism area, accomodation, transfer, ski hire, lift pass etc.
This is what can happen with no frills airlines. How much did you pay for the flights? This may answer your question, as johnboy, stated "you get what you paid for" probably. It is not the end of the world, only inconvenient. Such is life in modern society.
Be positive and enjoy your holiday, if it is putting you off having a nice holiday. Stay at home, you will be popular with the mrs. and kids!!!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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TBH, whilst I am certainly no big fan of Ryanair, I have had exactly the same kind of situation happen in the past with both BA and Swiss, with absolutely the same options and 'customer service' (or lack of) offered to me. It's annoying, but I'm afraid all airlines will do this if commercial climate dictates, it's not unique to Ryanair.
If it were me, I would fly out the night before and stop in one of the hotels near the airport, giving you a nice early start the next day.
Don't let it stress you out too much, you are still going to have a lovely new year holiday!
Happy sliding
D
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Poster: A snowHead
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ousekjarr, You don't mention which resort you are going, but there are lots of coaches from Salzburg Airport to the main resorts, so to cut down on transfer costs (which of course will be higher with less people on a mini bus) try one of the coaches. I can empathise, as we booked everything thinking that SkyEurope would be running their usual service from Manchester to Salzburg, but they dropped the route without any warning, so we had to book with BA, which was more expensive, but still cheaper than using a Tour Operator. The small print when booking with these budget airlines really means you don't have any claim on them if they change things!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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OK, everyone, thanks for the advice... I think...
I know that you get what you pay for - but Thomsonfly, Easyjet, Jet2 and BMI seem to manage to provide flights for the same price, and without the high likelihood of being messed about. Sure, flights are late, planes develop technical problems, and weather can delay everything, but I don't believe anyone else pulls a flight and says "take it or leave it" to their customers. If they've not got enough people to make the flight profitable, they either take the hit and reconsider that flight in their next schedule update, or they contact the customers and offer them an incentive to change. After all, if bumping us by 5 hours can save Ryanair £20K, maybe some of that should come to us as compensation?
On our first DIY trip to Austria, we flew with Austrian Air on the basis that they were bound to be better than the cattle carriers even though they only charged £20 more per person. The only problem was we had to change in Vienna and then fly on to Innsbruck, but that should have been OK, with a 20 minute turnaround and baggage checked through - at the time of booking, we were told that it would be done with typical Austrian efficiency, with the planes parked next to each other, and literally we would walk down the steps of one and up the steps of the other. Instead, we arrived in Vienna on time, and were told that Innsbruck was closed due to "weather". A coach was arranged, which took us 7 hours to get to Innsbruck, and where it dropped us at 3am at a deserted airport, which had no fresh snow, and where all of the roads, carpark and runway were visibly clear of any cover. Fortunately, we managed to find a local taxi company who would take us, and our wonderful apartment was blessed with an even better owner, as she was waiting for us at 4am in her dressing gown, and had sandwiches and hot chocolate waiting for us all. She also had a scathing comment on the feeble excuse from the airline - "This is Austria. We don't have weather problems". When we complained to Austrian Air, and provided photos of Innsbruck airport and the car park, they sent us 6 pine air fresheners and a box of 8 chocolates - between the 12 of us. So that's another carrier to avoid, then...
On the German language issue, we're going back to Austria for the 8th time, and Finkenberg for the 3rd time, so we know what we're getting ourselves into. Mayhofen is 2 miles away, where everyone works in the tourist industry, speaks English, and finishes work at 4am. That's precisely why we're in Finkenberg - it still has some of the charm and character of an Austrian village rather than being Clacton on ice; 99% of people don't speak English because they're locals working in family businesses who haven't been bussed in by the tour companies to staff the place, and its not a dedicated tourist resort, so there's generally no need either; and everything normally shuts around midnight, so we can get some sleep and be in the lift queue of 20 people when it opens, rather than fighting our way through with the 300+ who will no doubt be making "baa" sounds at the Penkenbahn in town.
As for how much we paid for our flights, 5 adults and a 1 year old came to £990, since its a holiday period, but it would have been over £1400 if we'd done Saturday to Saturday.
And Roy Hockley, if I stayed at home the wife and 1yr old son would not be at all pleased, as they're booked on the holiday too 
I'll almost certainly end up taking the reschedule, and just living with it, but it does make for an inconvenient start to the holiday, so rather than destressing by Saturday, it might be Sunday before I really relax into it after a long and tiring year. I just needed to vent, and to encourage others to see Ryanair for what they are about to become - the first company in history which is profitable but dies within 6 months as a result of pissing off every last one of their customers.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Oh, and we're going by train - 2 hours from Salzburg to Mayrhofen if you catch them right, which of course we probably won't any more... and going on the 26th is out, as we have family commitments, but thanks for checking and suggesting it!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Innsbruck, like many alpine airports, is subject to changeable weather conditions, and I would suspect that fog was a likely culprit having been caught out myself on more than one occasion. Suck it up, be a man, and get on with enjoying your holiday - it's 8 weeks away and you are already convinced it is going to be ruined
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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you are still going to have a lovely new year holiday
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Deliaskis, how do you know? It's started badly and sometimes things only get worse  . I vote these guys just relax, go with the later flight, stop moaning and get on with it!
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| johnboy wrote: |
| U gets wot u pays for. |
Obviously you dont.
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Guvnor, they can forecast fog 8 weeks out? Very clever...
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99% of people don't speak English
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ousekjarr, you've been to a different Finkenberg to me obviously.
You were unlucky with Innsbruck airport. Considering where it lies, it closes rarely. I'm certain there would have been a very good weather reason for closing, not necessarily snow. I guess it would have been much better if they'd attempted the flight, slammed into the sheer rock faces that line the final approach and then your hols would have been ruined, eh?
"Dear Sir,
I wish to complain about being dead...."
Last edited by After all it is free  on Wed 7-11-07 11:19; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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go the night before.. you will get some sking in on the day your frds turn up then.. providing thay arnt sent to moscow or something
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WHISSA, Read the thread.....on a previous trip their connecting flights were cancelled and they had to be bussed in to Innsbruck
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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ousekjarr, lighten up. It sounds as if you were looking more forward to your planning going to plan than actually skiing! It's a five hour difference, not a big deal really. If they're not capable of talking to a person through a language barrier on their own that's their fault and you shouldn't worry about it. They can easily occupy the time. It's just a flight.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Bode Swiller, you are as ever a ray of sunshine  .
ousekjarr, you say "I don't believe anyone else pulls a flight and says "take it or leave it" to their customers.", but I am just saying in my previous post, that this has happened to me with BA and twice with Swiss. Not saying it's always like this, but it doesn't always depend on the airline or on what you paid for your ticket.
Also re your Innsbruck experience, I am really surprised that happened with Austrian. We have always got in and out of Innsbruck in all sorts of weather on their flights (when GB Air, First Choice, Thomas Cook, BA etc. have all been cancelled due to 'weather'), and I always presumed it was something to do with the 'native' planes and pilots being rated for the more difficult take-off and landing in the more difficult weather, but the none Austrian ones not having the correct rating (not sure of the truth in this and am happy to be corrected). I have always sworn to fly only Austrian into Innsbruck for this reason, I have very often seen a scrum of GB Air and BA passengers being herded around the tarmac looking for their luggage, to put on a bus to Munich from where their flight to Gatwick was now leaving, whilst we have happily been boarding our Austrian flight to Gatwick on time. So sounds like either I have been very lucky or you have been very unlucky  !
D
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| ousekjarr wrote: |
| ......... Instead, we arrived in Vienna on time, and were told that Innsbruck was closed due to "weather". A coach was arranged, which took us 7 hours to get to Innsbruck .... |
Some years ago, I was scheduled to fly Lauda Air to Innsbruck en route to St Anton. But because of weather we were delayed something like 12 hours - and the flew to Munich. However, the flight out of Innsbruck on a gin clear day after a good snow dump over the mountains gave one of the most spectacular air views I have seen.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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one of the most spectacular air views I have seen.
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'tis amazing.
carled, well done. Wasn't there a very amusing thread on here somewhere about easyJet pulling Smokin'Joe's flight. Does he have a case?
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Poster: A snowHead
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On the Innsbruck experience, I also called the airport and asked them for their records of when they were closed. They weren't. At all. Not at any point that month, in fact. My objection to Austrian was not that they had a problem - it was that they lied to us twice: once when they said the airport was closed, and once when they said they were arranging another flight, which turned out to be a coach, with no food or drink, and no onboard toilet.
My first ever flight to Innsbruck was a package deal with Crystal, so we ended up with someone like Airtours or equivalent. The approach to Innsbruck was ... um .... interesting  I'd never been on a plane which did a U-turn in a valley before. However, the views of the Alps both inbound and outbound were incredible, so the second time we enjoyed it, and also had a good laugh at the nervous passengers who'd obviously never been before and had no idea what to expect.
As for complaining about being dead, I'd give it a damn good try
The 1cm of slush at East Midlands sounds familiar - let's remember that the UK in general grinds to a halt when more than 3 flakes arrive, so be grateful they didn't shut the M1 for a week as well.
I may sound like a whinging git, but I'm not really - I'm sure if this happens to you, you'll sound off about it for a while too. I'm watching the snow falling on a web cam and itching to get out there, so it will all be forgotten within a couple of hours on the piste and a swift dunkel or four, but its still more stress than I'd like.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Pretty clear that you ain't going to get any compensation.
PLenty of other airlines do this, but as you say, they do seem to try and get you there if they can!
From ryanair.com
Flight cancellations and schedule changes
If your flight is cancelled or before the date of travel, is rescheduled so as to depart more than three hours before or after the original departure time then you will be entitled to a travel credit or full refund of all monies paid if the alternative flight/s offered are not suitable to you and you do not travel.
Ryanair does not provide monetary compensation under Article 7 of EU Regulation 261/2004 for flights which are delayed or cancelled for reasons beyond Ryanair’s control (extraordinary circumstances). You may therefore wish to ensure that you have suitable private insurance cover in force to cover such eventualities. Your rights under EU Regulation 261/2004 are unaffected, so in the case of denied boarding, flight cancellation or a delay in excess of two hours you will be provided with a written notice setting out the rules for compensation and assistance in line with such Regulation.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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ousekjarr, I've just sent an urgent memo round the staff to look out for anyone remotely having a name like ousekjarr (or even any anagram thereof and possibly from the Cambridge area) just in case you decide to try and buy anything from us.
On reviewing all the evidence above, I believe you shouldn't be allowed out of the country.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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and it may be useful, just out of common courtesy and respect, for your travel companions to at least purchase a handy phrase book if they wish to communicate with those pesky foreigners
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Guvnor, I suspect that 99% of the inhabitants of Finkenburg DO actually speak english... just that when they see ousekjarr and team coming they pretend otherwise... "Solly, Chinese Raundrlery"
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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OK, very funny, but what I meant was that it is about as unspoilt as you can get in any ski area, so the fact that the locals don't all speak English is actually a bonus. Yes, the people in the ski shops generally do, and the lift pass kiosk, but we do all try to learn and speak German. Some are more successful than others, and yes, we all have phrase books to help with the more awkward bits - after all, if we wanted everything to be as it is at home, we'd try Scotland, Canada or the US instead.
We don't because we love Austria - its facilities, its scenery, its attitude, and most of all, its people. I'd recommend it to anyone, and from previous experiences, I'd recommend ThomsonFly as well, whose flights from a tin shed in Coventry combine ease of access with excellent service, and at similar prices to Ruinair.
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ousekjarr, obviously, where possible, people on here like to help out. So, to smooth you way here's few phrases tailored to your group's specific needs:
meine Freunde sind fünf Stunden spät - my friends are 5 hours late
ich möchte mich beschweren - I want to complain
mein zimmer ist zu kalt - my room is too cold
die Nahrung ist schrecklich - my meal is terrible
mein Skilehrer nicht sprechen Englisch - my ski instructor doesn't speak my lingo!
I haven't time to accommodate all needs but perhaps some other helpful sHs will jump in with useful phrases
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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In Austria all you need to do is work these buzz words into a sentence .....
Schnapps
Falco
Lederhosen
Hermann Maier
David Beckam
The sound of Music
Benni Raich
Scheefoannnnn
Jagermeister
Zwickl
ein großes Bier bitte
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Oh, and if anyone suggests that you fly with Ryanair in the future, refuse to speak to them ever again
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Chief, you sound like a bit of a stress head! I suggest you chill out and just enjoy your holiday! You pay budget - you get budget! Besides - every time I fly with Jet2 from Leeds they are always delayed anyway - you'll all probably meet up!
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FAQ
. A bit of a shame that you will now be unlikely to get to ski on arrival day whereas your friends probably will.
It was a nice day when I managed to get the cheque for £4K+ for the group out of their sticky little fingers...
