 Poster: A snowHead
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Evening fellow snowheads 
I have spent the best part of the last 20 years doing my best to avoid resorts, hotels and dates when i am likely to encounter school groups whilst skiing.
Not that i have anything inherently against them, but they do seem to bring out the worst behaviour in youngsters of a certain age, and large numbers of loud and very often drunk school kids do not make for the best co-hotel guests.
We have also discussed with sympathy the plight of the teachers who are in charge of these groups, who to be honest have devotion to duty in excess of the norm in order to get their ski fix and seem to spend the whole week looking stressed and harassed.
You might have guessed from this - I do not like (whether this is prejudiced or not) school ski groups.
Now the dilemma.
My daughter has finally at the age of 14 decided she does want to ski. will she come with me? No, it has to be the school trip in February 09. Reluctantly we agreed she could go (reluctant as I would rather she came with me). Now here is the killer - they are short of adult help, and my wife volunteered me!
My my inital reaction was NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
However when I looked into it a little more, it transpires that it would mean a free trip (7 night HB in a 3*, lift pass and transport), I would get to ski with my daughter a little, and it is to one of my favourite areas in Austria. Allegedly my days would be free, and evening duties on a rota.
On the downside........ well you can guess the downside from what I have said above.
Do I sell out, or do I stick to my principles? I have to let them know by the end of the week.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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afcbtim, b***er your principles, go for it!
Then at least you can keep an eye on your daughter.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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What does your daughter think about the idea of having you on the trip? If she is okay with it, then it's worth considering.....however, if she doesn't want it, then that's your easy get out.
Personally, I would be very dubious as to it being "days free and evenings on a rota". If you are getting a free place, then you are making up the numbers of legally required adults...I've been on school trips where there have been more adults doing hospial runs than there have been left on the slopes!
If you do go for it, then you need to go with the attitude of "I'm not paying for this....any skiing I do is a bonus....therefore if I have to work, then that's okay"
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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afcbtim,
Go for it. Principles and free skiing holiday, the issue is.....................
You get a free skiing holiday with the added benefit of making sure your daughter does not come home pregnant.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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afcbtim, I'd suggest you take your wife too - as chaparone  A friend of ours went on a similar trip as an accompanying adult, & was accused by a trio of 14yr old girls that he had made passes at them. Later they admitted they had done it to get him into trouble as he had annoyed them on the coach (he'd asked them to keep the noise down a little). Caused him no end of anguish.
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At about your daughter's age, perhaps a year or two older we went on a school ski trip. Two of my friends smuggled their ice climbing gear along with them, and one day when we were meant to be in ski school, went ice climbing with a guide, got caught in a storm and had to bivvy out on the mountain. The expression on the teacher in charge's face when they didn't turn up for supper was amusing, when he found out that two of his charges had gone ice climbing and noone knew where they were, the faeces really hit the fan.
They turned up safe and well with the guide the next day, who was quite upset to find out that his ice climbers were underage, and doing it without permission.
Moral - Kids are evil, usually not deliberately, but usually through lack of insight into the consequences of their actions. Run away, run away now!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The only ski trip my old school ran ended up with pupils and a teacher being airlifted off an Austrian mountain by 3 different coloured helicopters on 3 different days.
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AxsMan and Kramer clearly understand teenagers - especially teenage girls. The rest have have no idea.
Definitely - and I can not put this strongly enought - definitely do not go on this trip.
You will regret it for the rest of your life.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Jonpim wrote: |
| Kramer clearly understand teenagers - especially teenage girls. |
I plead not guilty m'lud. You can't prove nothing, filth! 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Jonpim, agreed. You need to maintain the fiction that your sweet innocent young daughter is... like her friends... sweet and innocent. Never went skiing with my school, but cannot remember any school trip which didn't involve vomiting, letching and a pub.
In a free market - how potentially bad does the experience have to be for them to offer you a free holiday to get you along...
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Book a trip with your mates to a neighbouring resort. Feign injury on the first day of the school trip and pretend to be in hospital. Your mates can get you drunk and give you a bit of a kicking on the last night for added realism.
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You know it makes sense.
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Won't you need a CRB check to go on this trip? It'll never come through in time
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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hi all my wife is a teacher (all girls comp) and her school is arranging a ski trip also Feb 09 I was invited along yesterday although no mention of chaperone more that the organiser wants her hubby to come along so same rule applied to us as well so fair enough I thought. Now I'm not so sure  . all my menories of school skip trips involved pubs and being sick. Has anyone actual experience as a teacher?afcbtim, we are in the same boat sounds great but what hassle awaits us? And yes you would need a CRB check.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I went on school ski trips, they're a great laugh if you're a kid.. but I wouldn't want to go as a parent/ teacher. It mostly involved plenty of beer and injuries.
That said some of my friends are teacher and love the annual ski trip - end of the day it's free and you can ski with your daughter, as long as you let her do her own thing
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| bladeski wrote: |
| Has anyone actual experience as a teacher? |
What do you want to know?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've been on two school trips as a teacher and thoroughly enjoyed both!
It's great to be able to help teach the kids to ski (only when with an instructor of course) and I think the majority of people (both adults and pupils) got a lot out of the trips.
Of course every trip has it's minor incidents but we found that as long as the rules and consequences are clear most of the pupils will be fine...
We had a good selection of staff on the trip though and also vetoed any pupils who were likely to be a nuisance.
If the trip is well prepared and competent staff are going then I'm sure you'd be able to enjoy your free skiing 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You should find yourself babysitting injured/ill kids during the day (always a few, and no you CAN'T leave the hotel staff to look after them, thank you), getting involved with evening activities (skating, bowling, quizzes, karaoke etc etc), night-time policing.
If you're not prepared to get involved with the group and all you're after is a free ski holiday, don't go. Probably one of the most annoying things about school groups is freeloading adults who do bog all but moan about the food (and that's another thing - expect to eat school dinners).
On the other hand, if you pitch in and have a laugh, ski with the kids and join in during evening ents you will enjoy it. My staff often ski with the groups and get involved with ents (despite having no obligation to do so) because although schoolkids are annoying diseased little blighters, they can also be good fun.
But first .................. find out whether your daughter still wants to go if you're on board. I can't think of anything more mortifying than having your dad come on a scool ski trip.
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afcbtim, are you completly mad..? teachers have years of training, they are hardened to other people teenagers.. avoid like the plague!!
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Right. I am, as most people know a teacher and if I say so myself a good and successful one. I still love my job after 35 years in it and enjoy the company of young people. I have been on one school ski trip and I fear it will be my last.
I am pleased to see that most people on this thread realise that 24 hour a day responsibility for other people's children is not an easy ride and you get very little skiing for your time investment. I have come under a bit of pressure from time-to-time to organise or join in and help with school ski trips and finally succumbed last Easter when I flew down to join a school trip at Deux Alpes at my own expense and got myself a little flat nearby the school's hotel.
The whole trip was no problem at all from the behaviour point of view. The hotel were delighted with our kids and pleased to get a repeat booking for two years' time. What did make things difficult for us was the Health and Safety stuff. The kids were only allowed to ski under the strictest Instructor supervision in graded groups. They were also compelled to ski early when it was icy, sit and wait in perfect snow for two hours and then ski another two hours in slush. We had the helicopter out three times in the week and most of the staff were on base-camp duty as a result.
I went down hoping to have the pleasure of the mountains with some nice kids, but the restrictions were such that they were not able to really get the ski experience. The kids didn't complain, but the reality of life for the young these days is that they are either regulated and controlled in every way possible, or they are running wild. Needless to say the latter type do not go on school trips.
Those of us who remember loosely organised depravity in the name of genuine education (and I am not being ironic) have little idea of what life is like for kids nowadays. We used to learn by our mistakes. Today mistakes are not permitted, for fear of litigation. I'm not saying it is wrong, but just be aware that school and school trips are both nothing like we remember from our day.
One final point. Thanks for the understanding of teachers' positions, skills and the demands on us. My heart usually sinks when anything to do with schools or education comes up on here. I'm quite touched by some of the views on this thread.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Chris Bish, Anyone who has kids knows the 'delights' of looking after their own teenagers and other peoples. The thought of being responsible for a whole bunch of teens gives me a dose of the screaming abdabs. Respect to anyone who can do it, let alone enjoy it! 
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My daughter's boyfriend is a teacher, and she is a trainee teacher. He came skiing with us for the first time last year. He's a PE teacher, and a good skier, but had learnt all his skiing on school trips. He said he had enjoyed his trips very much, in particular being in ski school groups with the kids, learning alongside them (he started as a beginner). He said he liked seeing a different side of the kids, and the fact that some of the ones who weren't generally much use at games, or anything else, took to skiing and really enjoyed themselves. BUT, it was work. There are inevitably injuries, broken hearts, tears and tantrums. People who reckon teachers get "free holidays" don't know what they are talking about.
From the initial post, afcbtim doesn't have much underderstanding of, or liking for, kids. In which case, maybe it's a bad idea? I certainly can't imagine any of my kids, as teenagers, wanting one of us along as an accompanying adult.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| pam w wrote: |
| he started as a beginner |
I still go on my old school's ski trips. Even though its a good school and everyone's well behaved (and there are filtering systems to prevent the few undersirables from attending) you still get the problems already listed that can happen however sensible/well behaved/intelligent/old people are.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Chris Bish , although not a ski trip, aah, the memories. Our school decided to arrange a trip for all of us that had either been disqualified or kicked off other trips in the name of equality and thinking the 'outdooor' experience would reform us in some way by spending a few days in North Wales.
Things did not start too well as during the first stop (mini bus), they had to round us up from BOTH side of the M4 on the way but other than that the journey went well. So duly kitted out with camping gear, rucksacks etc. off we went hiking round the mountains of Snowdonia, sleeping under the stars etc. and other than trying to keep boys out of girls tents and girls out of boys tents, I'm sure the teachers got at least a couple of hours sleep
So far, nothing too traumatic except our last night was spent in a Scout hut in the middle of Colwyn Bay, where we were having a farewell disco and it was a Friday night! To put this into perspective, this was circa 1977/78 and the dress (boys) consisted of 'Bondage' trousers, Sid Vicious stripey Mohair jumper and 10 hole Doc Martin boots (and girls) holed fish net stockings, Sex Pistols tee shirts and again Doc Marting boots. And I almost forgot to mention various colour hair. You can imagine what happened next and no disrespect to our Welsh friends, but lets just say they had not seen anything like it and being a Friday night, all the locals wanted to come out and 'play'!
Belive me, the teachers did a sterling job that night stopping scraps breaking out all over the place and all the while keeping the local Police convinced they had it under control 
Big respect to teachers after that but I vowed it was not a career for me
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You know it makes sense.
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Chris Bish, good summary of a school trip.
Each LEA has different restrictions on what staff can and can't let the kids do. Some schools are allowed to let the kids ski with teachers, others allow them to free ski. But the one thing that you will never get away from is having to do sick duty!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Chris Bish, But it did give you a chance to sneak off for a while at lunchtime for something to eat and drink and a few runs with Natalie and me
More seriously having seen the children from Chris's school bake in the sun every lunchtime would make me ask a lot of questions before agreeing to pay out for my daughter to go on a school ski trip.
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Poster: A snowHead
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A point worth considering for school trips since I mentioned school groups from the UK at Kirkwood in CA in another thread that might be good news for accompanying adults (rather than the teenagers). Speaking to the teachers of a Welsh group, one of the reasons for going state side was the drinking age is strictly 21, and it is far harder for teens on holiday to get alcohol, compared to places where those in the group that are 16 can legally buy booze.
The flip side of this was on a School trip to Bavaria in the summer when I was in 6th year, this was intended for 4th and 5th year pupils doing Duke of Edinburgh award expeditions, but a few 6th year pupils who had already done the Silver Award were offered the chance to go in return for assisting the teachers. The hostel we were staying in had it's own pub, and the teachers laid down a basic rule - anyone who was 16+ was given free reign to drink in it (and quite a few that weren't 16 did too), but if there was even a hint of bother, people would be sent straight home. Being allowed to drink openly, meant that any drinking was done in a controlled and monitored setting, and evenings we were based in the hostel would see us all pupils and teachers together, playing games doing quizzes or just yaking about stuff over a few very fine local beers.
The teachers didn't even have to threaten to carry out the threat of sending people home and the two ex UK army guys that run the place commented that our behaviour was in such stark contrast to a group from an English Public school two weeks before, whom had demanded that they close their bar, laid down the law that alcohol would not be tolerated etc etc. Their pupils went off on a couple of secret benders, came back hammered, throwing up, had fights, just about trashed the place, numerous were sent home, the local Police were involved....
I bet now though the teachers would probably all be up for gross misconduct, buying the pupils a round in a local, yet i know which group had the better holiday, I know which teachers had an enjoyable rather than stressful trip of the above two scenarios.
PS two groups did get absolutely hammered at lunchtime on day 2 of the hill walking expedition after coming upon a very fine Alpine Hut. When we reached the afternoon meet up point I think the teachers were too amazed that we had navigated there on time in that state to get overly mad!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks for the advice, good bad & otherwise!
Just to set the record straight I do not have a problem with teenagers, and having 3 of varying ages and maturity has led to a reasonable understanding of their needs and behaviour. My only issue is that I do find it irritating whilst on holiday to put up with loutish, drunken behaviour - although I fully realise that this is not just restricted to school groups - I may even have resorted to it myself on a few occaisions .
I am leaving it with my daughter to decide first if she wants me to come before I make my decision, and to tie up the thread will post the outcome at the weekend.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| afcbtim wrote: |
Thanks for the advice, good bad & otherwise!
Just to set the record straight I do not have a problem with teenagers, and having 3 of varying ages and maturity has led to a reasonable understanding of their needs and behaviour. My only issue is that I do find it irritating whilst on holiday to put up with loutish, drunken behaviour - although I fully realise that this is not just restricted to school groups - I may even have resorted to it myself on a few occaisions .
I am leaving it with my daughter to decide first if she wants me to come before I make my decision, and to tie up the thread will post the outcome at the weekend. |
Unless you are a teacher, give it a miss.
1. Your kid will get bullied 'cos daddykins is on the trip;
2. You risk getting labeled a diddler back home (especially if you have a beard);
3. Watching dozens of kids 24-7 is a thankless task.
It is not worth the hassle for what amounts to a 500-quid holiday.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I'm a teacher, our school runs ski trips, and I wouldnt touch them with a bargepole. If nothing else, if a kid does something stupid - even if you've told them not too - and hurts themselves, you're potentially liable.
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afcbtim, not fair to leave it to your daughter. She will be torn between 2 states
"I don't want to hurt Daddy by saying I don't want him to come, so I must say Yes"
"But I won't be able to relax with my dad around. so I must say No!"
"But then my Dad will think I don't like him any more and he will be hurt, so I must say Yes!"
"But it will be really awful having him around all the time . . . . . . ." and so on and so on.
Be a Man afcbtim, and make the decision yourself.
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My youngest is currently away on a school trip to Bercelona with his Art class. We had to sign a form to say we would accept that they wouldpossibly be drinking alcohol while on the trip with their evening meal, as it is part of the culture of the country, and wine would be on the table with the meal. If we did not agree to this, they weren't going to be allowed to go, as teachers said they could not be expected to police the group in these circumstances, either all could drink, or none (and that included the teachers) . Drinking at other times on the trip is apparently not allowed. They are all 16-18 year olds, and they have been given quite a lot of freedom,apart from the dirnking, but as the head of 6th form said 'with freedom comes responsibility' (real bag of laughs).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| austin7 wrote: |
| If nothing else, if a kid does something stupid - even if you've told them not too - and hurts themselves, you're potentially liable. |
Not necessarily. It all depends on the risk assessment. If you have done that correctly, and have acted in the correct manner, then the liability is held by those who sign off the risk assessment (usually the head and the LEA).
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FAQ
And looking after the little perishers in the evening doesn't bear thinking about.
). Ah well...
