 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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stanton, As it is Dutch, is 'points of interest' code for knocking shops and cafes that cater for dope fiends ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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stanton's link to the AA, if you want to go see, should be without the 1 at the end
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| Latchigo wrote: |
| stanton, As it is Dutch, is 'points of interest' code for knocking shops and cafes that cater for dope fiends ? |
Well it would be here 
GPS Sat Nav POI picks up speedradar, speed cameras etc
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think its banned in France as well. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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So is it illegal for the police to put up signs warning of impending cameras? In which case they (the police) should all be in jail. I suppose they'd have to throw the keys out through the bars to some upstanding citizen who was whitewash white. Totally stupid. The whole point of speed cameras is deterrent. If you don't know they're there, they're not much of a deterrent are they?
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In-vehicle GPS units are akin to mini TVs and a distraction. It is only a matter of time before authorities start clamping down on them.
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Only if they have a TV tuner..
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It's illegal in Germany as well. Ridiculous really because the radio stations here broadcast the position of speed traps as reported by drivers, which seems to be OK, but you're not allowed to see those positions on your GPS  Radar warning devices are also illegal, but I guess that applies to just about everywhere.
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And whatabout maps? I've gotta French one with camera locations on it. Will they all be impounded and burnt? They should draw a distinction between detectors and position indicators, facile though making even that distinction is in itself.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
| If you don't know [speed cameras are] there, they're not much of a deterrent are they? |
If you don't know that they are are around at all then maybe. But if you know there are some but don't know where than they can be a deterrent - if you don't want to get caught you'll have to keep to the speed limits all the time. People want to know where the speed cameras are so they can slow down for them, then carry on breaking the law with impunity in other places.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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slikedges, according to the article, the paper maps are currently unaffected i.e. still legal, but the govt is looking at whether they can prohibit such info being printed on maps.
Mike Lawrie, yes, here too the local radio stations (in the Zurich area anyway) have a hotline for drivers to report where cameras are being used
David Murdoch, but you know that the Swiss do use cameras - frequently and regularly - and that they fire at 1 km over the limit. That's certainly a deterrent to me. OTOH an initial fine band of CHF 40 occasionally makes it a risk worth taking. Better than CHF 250 for being 0.6 seconds late on a traffic light
Just to clarify, the article makes it clear that simple possession of a device that can show the whereabouts of fixed and mobile speed cameras and red light cameras is an offence. Doesn't matter whether the function is switched off, or the GPS is in your luggage in the boot and can't be used, whether it's handheld or built-in - if your nav system can show this info, then possession is an offence, even if only transiting CH
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So bottom line is don't use a satnav in Switzerland? What if it's built into your car? Hack it out with an ice pick on the border?
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You know it makes sense.
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slikedges, sat nav itself is OK - it's just if it shows camera positions it ain't. According to the article, it doesn't matter if it's built into the car - if it shows camera positions you'll need to talk to a dealer to get that info removed. Since a large number of cars in CH are sold with SatNav, there must be discs, for instance, from the manufacturer that exclude that info
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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juice, This is the situation in france according to the "Telegraph"
In France, GPS systems that indicate the position of speed cameras are legal (see article R413-15 of the French highway code). They are classified as “avertisseurs” – warning devices providing information that is in the public domain and available on www.viamichelin.com. Any device that can detect radar or laser signals from speed cameras or guns is illegal. They are classified as “détecteurs” and the presence of such a device, whether in use or not, is a serious offence that can lead to a large fine or even confiscation of the vehicle. GPS systems that combine laser/radar detectors should not be taken to France.
They also suggest printing this out http://www.controleradar.org/detecteur-de-radar.html and having a copy with you.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Whitegold, first they should clamp down on passengers - particularly children. Outlaw them, then move on to technology that is helpful!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The authorities are always keen to tell us that cameras are only positioned in acident blackspots (part of the hypothecation rules for example) and are not just positioned for revenue generation.
Surely then any device that tells you where these accident blackspots are is a good thing?
What's next, take down all the roadsigns warning of hazards ahead? Scrub all the white lines off the road?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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FenlandSkier, the Swiss don't even pretend they're in accident blackspots (at least they're honest about it). TBH I don't even think it's so much a revenue thing - it's simply enforcement of the law
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| FenlandSkier wrote: |
What's next, take down all the roadsigns warning of hazards ahead? Scrub all the white lines off the road? |
havn't the Dutch experimented with that, it reduced the number of accidents.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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But if it's purely enforcement then why stick them up on a pole and paint them bright yellow?
Hide the cameras and force motorists to stick to the rules everywhere for fear of being caught.
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| FenlandSkier wrote: |
| But if it's purely enforcement then why stick them up on a pole and paint them bright yellow? |
FenlandSkier, that's only the UK. Around here there are no warning signs, and many fixed cameras are actively concealed - in bins, behind road signs or trees etc.
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| Hide the cameras and force motorists to stick to the rules everywhere for fear of being caught. |
That's exactly what they do here - and the cameras can fire at 1 kph over the limit. If you speed on the motorway, you often won't know about the camera or radar gun until you're pulled over by the police a few km's further on. Thank God for cruise control! 
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The Swiss put lots cameras in tunnels, in France they can also calculate your average speed between toll booths on the Motorway. I have heard that in the US they even have them on ski runs but I dont know what the speed limit might be.
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| Quote: |
are not just positioned for revenue generation.
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maybe those drivers (and populist newspapers) who make such a fuss about the purpose of cameras being "revenue generation" and "finding another way of fleecing the poor motorist" would prefer the sanctions to be limited to immediate confiscation of driving licences? That would slow us all down.
Very useful information about SATNAVs in Switzerland - thanks for this, stanton, and eng_ch. We dont have satnav yet, but having been regaled with positive views about them dining with our French neighbours the other night, I am thinking about it. They said they paid a small supplement - 25 euros or thereabouts, with TomTom, for the info on cameras. I have been a passenger in a car with satnav, and enjoyed playing around with it - I use them a lot on boats. But I was a passenger, and it was a pretty small screen, not that easy to see especially in bright sunlight. I tend to agree with Whitegold, too, that the time might come when there is some regulation of these devices - they are fairly addictive and a driver squinting at the SATNAV can't also be looking at the road. Yes, kids are a distraction too, as is a big domestic about whose fault it was we got lost! Gotta keep a sense of proportion, I suppose.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| juice wrote: |
| in France they can also calculate your average speed between toll booths on the Motorway.. |
Urban Myth no 383 , I'm afraid.
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pam w, it's not so much the mapping, although that can be handy for a quick glance as to exactly which turning it means, but it gives verbal directions and that's invaluable somewhere new
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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pam w, the well designed ones are clear, safe and easy for a quick glance. Unlike maps.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| slikedges wrote: |
| pam w, the well designed ones are clear, safe and easy for a quick glance. Unlike maps. |
And also talk to you in a calm manner, giving you appropriate notice about forthcoming manoeuvres.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| slikedges wrote: |
| pam w, the well designed ones are clear, safe and easy for a quick glance. Unlike maps. |
And also talk to you in a calm manner, giving you appropriate notice about forthcoming manoeuvres. |
...and will suggest you make a U-turn if you miss a junction without telling you that you didn't put the toilet seat down on one occasion last week...
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You know it makes sense.
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As I'm driving through 5 countries (including Switzerland) this summer on holiday I've just bought myself one although I did have one in a previous car. Checking the AA site radar detectors are banned everywhere and mine does indeed display POI's including camera positions. I think I'll just turn that facility off and position the unit (it's a small PDA type) in a less visible position, I rely more on the voice directions anyway. Crazy really as most roadmaps display motorway camera positions anyway.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Colin B wrote: |
| I think I'll just turn that facility off and position the unit (it's a small PDA type) in a less visible position, I rely more on the voice directions anyway. |
Well, just make sure you don't get caught then as the Swiss will probably count concealing it into the mix and fine you even more 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| juice wrote: |
| I think its banned in France as well. |
only radar detectors not GPS units. This probably recognises the improbability of Plod being able to mount a successful prosecution - how do they know that all these Autogrill waypoints in my GPS are really speed traps? Doubt the average Gendarme would be able to get into the system anyway.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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eng_ch, I'd say every satnav does poi and can show camera locations, so if as is portrayed here, no satnavs will be legal
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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slikedges, the built-in one in our car doesn't and as it's a German car I imagine the sat nav is designed with German legalities in mind. The easiest way must be for it to be on the disc I imagine.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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eng_ch, so yours doesn't tell you where petrol stations, airports and hotels are, or there's no provision for you to mark favourite destinations (aka points of interest), or a very lowly maximum limit on the numbers you can enter?!?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hehehe - one of the UK bike mags always describes the Swiss as anal money grabbing nazi sympathisers 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| slikedges wrote: |
| eng_ch, so yours doesn't tell you where petrol stations, airports and hotels are, or there's no provision for you to mark favourite destinations (aka points of interest), or a very lowly maximum limit on the numbers you can enter?!? |
It does all that but no speed cameras. No point putting in ones you know, anyway, coz you know where they are without it. And how can you put in ones you don't know about?
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eng_ch, that's beside the point. You are capable of putting them in so your device is able to display them. To reduce it to absurdity, the law shouldn't distinguish between your purchase of a PointOfInterest file containing pre-entered data or whether you in fact drove everywhere in Switz but were unable to remember all the sites so entered it manually as an aide memoire. Anyway, POI files of speed cameras can easily be added or subtracted from all portable satnavs, so if yours is legal, why shouldn't mine be if I simply remove the file at the Swiss border, then USB it back as I leave (even if on your built-in one, there is no facility to add/remove POI files)?
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TomTom have stopped shipping the Swiss camera database with their units - and have published instructions for removing the Swiss camera from existing ones. The say this means their units operate within the guidelines - see here for details.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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slikedges, IIRC you can add a waypoint but not a POI, they are all pre-entered, but every system will be different. Do you really think a major car manufacturer would supply a car to Switzerland that was not compliant with the law??
| Quote: |
| POI files of speed cameras can easily be added or subtracted from all portable satnavs, so if yours is legal, why shouldn't mine be if I simply remove the file at the Swiss border, then USB it back as I leave |
If you change "as I leave" to "after I leave" i.e. once you have passed the border, that would be fine because if the data isn't on the device, then the device isn't capable of displaying the info and hence is compliant. What you do with it outside Switzerland is none of the Swiss police's business
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eng_ch, oakaaay, after I leave then...
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