 Poster: A snowHead
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My son (aged 16 just done GCSEs) is a very good skier and is keen to get qualified in advance of a Gap Year.
He plans teaching the gap summer in Aus or NZ and winter in Switz or the USA (he was born in the USA so carries both UK and USA passports so no work permit issues at all). NOT interested in working in France (so pleeaase let's not go down that route!).
Thereafter working some peak times in Uni holidays if he can get the work. Switz (Verbier) does seem the most likely place as we have a shack there.
He will not do a long Gap type course in order to qualify, just the 5-10 day exam prep and exam type thing that BASI offer, CSIA very similar in Andorra.
So going forward....as punters would you be more/less/not bothered likely to take lessons from a BASI or CSIA ?
Those that know about these things: do you think that ski schools in Switz' or the USA have a real hireing preference?
Ongoing...what are the relative pros/cons in terms of keeping up the qualification etc etc?
Your thoughts would be most appreciated....his younger sister will be following on with the same plan so they both send their virtual thanks in advance.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 13-07-07 16:53; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I believe you have to be 18 to become qualified in either at level 2, but I may be wrong.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rungsp, BASI L1 is 16 yrs, L2 is 18
Do you mean CASI as that's Snowboarding, or do you mean CSIA?
CSIA L1 15 yrs. So if he's only 16 CSIA is the only way to go, in order to get qualified at a high enough level to teach outside of N. America, i.e. Level 2.
CSIA is way cheaper than BASI to get qualified.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Spyderman, but will anyone hire a 16 year old with CSIA L1?
Only a BASI level 2 license allows you to teach on the mountain so 18 is minimum to teach in the mountains in countries that require a licensed instructor, which i believe is most of Europe (not sure about switzerland), not sure about the equivalent CSIA level
Friends who teach in OZ tell me that there is no formal license requirement to teach at the resorts there. THey have an open day where they evaluate your skiing and BASI level 1 was enough to get them hired and another mate with a level 2 easily got work in OZ.
In the USA the reality is only a BASI grade 2 (ISIA) will get work in the major west coast resorts. Some smaller resorts in the east coast hire BASI ski instructors level 2.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Oops, thanks Spyderman, I just edited that...I meant CSIA.
I think that either allow you to be qualified at 16, but you have to be 18 to actually teach, and he'd be 18 by the time he is actually teaching.
Cost? Am I missing somethingn(quite possible) the BASI fees for their first level are almost the same as the CSIA.
Do students have to pay to shadow? I know BASI require 70 hours of shadowing.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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rungsp, have a look at this thread http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=26855&highlight=
a lot of it was relating to france but lots of good info on the other countries.
you dont have to pay to shadow you can do it at your local dry slope, or, can usually get shadowing hours on the mountain with the training company....
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| rungsp wrote: |
So going forward....as punters would you be more/less/not bothered likely to take lessons from a BASI or CSIA ?
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I'd be more likely to take lessons with a CSIA - but that is more from the fact that I know their teaching style/system/whatever it is better... (ie we will more likely have a common perspective and vocabulary as i have had plenty of lessons from CSIA's)
I'd never take a lesson with less than a CSIA 3 unless I actually knew an awful lot about the person and there seemed a valid reason to change my mind... IIRC CSIA3=ISIA = APSI2=NZSI2 so if he gets CSIA3 he'd be pretty safe for getting a job down under... less than CSIA 3 and he'd likely be forced to take the hiring clinic at the resort (pretty much a training and job selection week long course... it costs but you get a refund if you get hired) in most Oz resorts...
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rungsp, CSIA fees are pretty much £ for $ compared to BASI, plus the courses are shorter. L1 CSIA is 4 day against 5 days, L2 is 5 days against 10 days for BASI.
Level wise the CSIA L1 is slightly below BASI L1 standard and CSIA L2 is below BASI L2.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skimottaret,
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Only a BASI level 2 license allows you to teach on the mountain
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A CSIA L1 will get you a job in Canada, but teaching beginners only, probably kids, plus it's OK for UK dry slopes.
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rungsp, if someone tries to charge for shadowing, i'd tell them to naff off. he can do shadowing on dry slopes and in snowdomes so it's a bit of a hassle but should be manageable for him
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Spyderman wrote: |
| Level wise the CSIA L1 is slightly below BASI L1 standard and CSIA L2 is below BASI L2. |
That's kinda bit of a inaccurate generalised statement to be making, in terms of technical skiing I've found a range of not very good BASI L2's to excellent BASI L2's, and the same for CSIA L2's ranging from mediocre to excellent. As with any system, no matter how hard you try to standardise the standards, there is always a variation, depending on many things, trainer, examiner, resort, time of year of exam etc.
For example I know several BASI L2's who didn't ski moguls for their exams because there weren't any at that time of year.
So in terms of technical skiing BASI L2's vs CSIA L2's they both have a lower threshold of "pass" and a higher "glass" ceiling of the standard. Lots of overlap, but to say that one is above or below the other, I think is not possible. I see many BASI L2's and CSIA L2's daily in my line of work and see this variation.
In terms of teaching, in my experience, the skills system of the CSIA has the edge over the Central Theme, the former addressing the individual skier's skills, rather than a movement based system.
To answer the OP, once you've made your choice, it's crucial to stick to that system all the way up the ladder, BASI, CSIA, PSIA, APSI, NZSIA etc., as cross-pollination in practice is not that easy.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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veeeight, i think the general stereotype in Europe is that BASI has a slightly higher tech standard and the Canadian training is more teaching biased at least at the entry levels. This is of course debatable....
you are quite right about overlap within the levels. In my group of twenty at a recent BASI level 2 course the top 4 were ex racers and already at BASI 2 tech level , and , the bottom 2 that passed shouldn't have IMO. Poor teachers and clunky skiers. Not what i would look at and call an "instructor"
FYI, BASI level 2 moguls, off piste and free style portions of the course require a lower level of competence to pass as opposed to short and long radius turns.
rungsp, I would second veeeight, in choosing which system to train within and would pick the one where you are most likely to teach. CSIA if canada is your ideal GAP year destination , BASI for Europe PSIA for the states, etc..... OZ and NZ seem to be more relaxed about hiring instructors with "foreign" qualifications so i wouldnt go down APSI or NZSIA route unless training there.
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skimottaret,
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veeeight, i think the general stereotype in Europe is that BASI has a slightly higher tech standard and the Canadian training is more teaching biased at least at the entry levels.
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I'd agree with that.
veeeight, My statement was made as a general observation, in that in my opinion the technical level for a pass in BASI L2 is higher than that of CSIA L2. I have done both and can therefore make a direct first hand comparison. I also know CSIA L2 instructors that have reied and failed at BASI L2, plus others that would not have a hope of passing BASI L2.
Of course there will be CSIA L2's that are better than BASI L2's. There is a pass standard, some will scrape it, some will pass easily.
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You know it makes sense.
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Spyderman, Did you do your CSIA L2 in Andorra, or Canada?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Spyderman, Veeeight, can either of you shed any light on technical level equivalences between BASI and PSIA?
I understand L1 PSIA is akin to BASI L1 with the exception it is exam based with training done elsewhere. But I may be wrong.
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Poster: A snowHead
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veeeight, Fernie,B.C.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Snowshark,
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Spyderman, Veeeight, can either of you shed any light on technical level equivalences between BASI and PSIA?
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I know absolutely nothing about PSIA, sorry.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm 17 and in the same position as you're son. I've just today finished (and passed) my BASI level 1 course. With that I can teach on artificial and indoor slopes. I've found the course very interesting and I've really developed as a skiier, but also as an instructor. That's a 5 day course.
The next step is to do my BASI level 2, that allows me to teach pretty much anywhere, bar France. That's a 10 day course run on snow, probably in the Alps. I'll probably do that at Easter.
Once I've done that, I'll go away in our summer, probably to NZ and do as long as I can out there before starting Uni.
Just as a note, I've gone through BASI because it's ALOT better than CASI. CASI's are not really recognised as much as BASI are, not taking anything away from the qualification, it's more the types of drills they get you to do with the BASI course.
If you want any pointers, send me a message, hope that helps a tad 
Jono.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Also, because people will probably be very confused, BASI have now changed everything...
BASI Diploma Level - Previously known as Level 1
ISIA - Previously known as Level 2
Level 2 - Previously known as Level 3
Level 1- Previously known as ASSI
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Jono, well done you must be chuffed 
why do you recon BASI is "way better" than CSIA? do you have mates that have done the CSIA?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Yeah, got friends that have done CSIA instead of BASI, and in all honesty, they wouldn't keep up on a tough run. It's not that their standard is low, it's just that the exercises/training done to get them to that level isn't as vigorous, so give them a really tough bit of mountain and they will no longer just be able to "ski" but have to really think about it.
Like I say, not taking anything away from it, because the exit level is the same or similar to BASI, it's just that the training you need to pass to get you at that level isn't quite the same yet.
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Jono, Congrats. Did you do your course at Castleford? If so, is Shona Tate still the instructor?
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Jono, well said, and that ties up with the stereotype that I have heard from others with regards to BASI vs CSIA.... good luck on your level 2 where are you doing it?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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One of the Castleford instructors passed his CSIA 2 no problem but bombed out on his BASI 3 (I'm still using the old grades), failing on some technical elements of his skiing. I think he's doing a re-sit this week on the Hintertux glacier. He reckoned that the technical skiing requirement for BASI was higher but that he learnt better teaching skills with CSIA.
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It was Pete Silver Gillespie that took the course, utter ski god. Grahame and Jon that are both Basi 2 (3) level also helped with the course, shadowing it. (They're both instructors here at Castleford.)
Don't really know where I'm going to do it yet, want to do a week away on a practice course and then maybe have a bash at it. Would like to be able to do it without needing to do a technical resit, but that really will need me to pull my finger out.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Jono, i can recommend New Generation in Courchevel, top trainers and a good organisation behind the scenes. Also as a young guy if you carry on with them they may sponsor your BASI 2 (sorry ISIA) training course costs if you pass your grade 2 and go to work for them in switzerland.....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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spyderjon,
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I think he's doing a re-sit this week on the Hintertux glacier.
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P S-G is in Tux now, so the re-sit will probably be with him.
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Snowshark, There's not really a direct comparison BASI vs PSIA, but the PSIA3 is the ISIA level.
I do slightly despair of the European stereotype of BASI L2 vs. CSIA L2 (which no doubt manifests itself) but at the same token here in Whistler we see many (newly qualified) BASI L2's struggling down terrain that (newly qualified) CSIA L2's ski with relative ease - so despite "standardised" exit levels, differences do seem to exist.
As for worldwide recognition of BASI qualifications being better over CSIA qualifications that really is tosh  CSIA's work all over the world without problems.
At the end of the day, choose a system, and stick with it.
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You know it makes sense.
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veeeight,
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As for worldwide recognition of BASI qualifications being better over CSIA qualifications that really is tosh CSIA's work all over the world without problems.
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who said anything like that? I said stick with the governing body in the geography that you will most likely teach in which seems sensible to me. No one is arguing that BASI has better recognition than CSIA. I recon as CSIA has much bigger base of instructors than BASI it probably is more recognised. But if someone is going to teach in Switzerland and Oz (and poss. the USA) my recommendation wouldnt be a Canadian license.....
You may despair over the stereotype but we have it from several people on this thread that the CSIA peeps have struggled when compared to the BASI equivalence. You could argue that the standard is lower for people sitting exams in Andorra but Spyderman, did his in BC and recons the level is not as high and he has both badges.
I myself trained with a guy on my Level 2 course that had done his CSIA in Canada and although he passed (just barely) the Trainer told him "never tell anyone who passed you" as he was so close to a fail....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
who said anything like that?
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Jono (although he did say CASI which I'm not sure if he knew what he was saying)
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| But if someone is going to teach in Switzerland and Oz (and poss. the USA) my recommendation wouldnt be a Canadian license |
Mine *would* be a Canadian license, based on my knowledge of those people doing the hiring!
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| the Trainer told him "never tell anyone who passed you" as he was so close to a fail |
Oh come on, we all know people like that from all systems!
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Mon 16-07-07 10:17; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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see below
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 16-07-07 10:18; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Quote:
who said anything like that?
Jono
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veeeight, you are right, having a closer look i stand corrected!!! 
would you really recommend going down the canadian license route to someone who lives in the UK and is planning to teach in Switzerland and Australia???
Hmmmm... should he wish to progress how many level CSIA 3 courses are offered in Europe and Australia as compared to BASI?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Well, I know the guys that do the hiring clinics in Perisher & Thredbo, they work or have worked with me in the past in Canada, and have seen BASI Grade3's teach alongside all the other systems.
Also, some of the Brit ski schools in CH (that I know the guys from) also like employing CSIAs for their teaching skills, but obviously I can't speak for all of them though.
Felix from Powder Extreme (Verbier) is a CSIA4 (and works with me in Whistler when he's there).
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| Hmmmm... should he wish to progress how many level CSIA 3 courses are offered in Europe and Australia as compared to BASI? |
Well quite, so all this should be taken into consideration when making a choice of which system, and how far you want to progress.
I really don't want this to descend into a slanging match.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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It is wise to think about the qualifications you take/hold in relation to where you want to work. We all hear allot about which qualification is higher etc. I wonder if in reality this is actually about certain instructors egos! Basically if you want to work in Canada you are best off with a CSIA qualification. BASI is linked with European System which in terms of the top qualifications see them as equivalent to degrees. With that comes a certain level of education that is a requirement (other than just skiing ability) like off piste etc.
With the lower qualifications they all vary a bit in with regard to levels. In the ISIA and above qualifications the levels are more comparable (with skiing technique). A CSIA level 3 would demonstrate the same level of technical competence as a BASI ISIA teacher, a CSIA level 4 would rack up to the ISTD.
There are differences in other areas though. For example BASI ISIA and ISTD have to complete 6 then another 7 (ISTD) days of high mountain safety and ski mountaineering training (as do the Europeans). I don't think this exists at this level in CSIA?
ISIA are now implementing a policing system and intend to bring in two levels of stamp/card. This may effect the level at which organisations can issue the ISIA licence. The rules in the past have been a bit vague in relation to off piste training and second language for example. This could effect the organisations that don't formally include these requirements in their training (APSI, CSIA, PSIA etc)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
didnt think it had
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There's time yet, we're still on Page 1
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isn't all this arguing about whether a CSIA1 is better than a BASI3 (in old terms) a bit of a red herring? if you want to teach for a real living you need to be setting your standards considerably higher than either of those. IMO
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Arno, yeah you are right but you need to get on the ladder somehow and get some teaching experience. For instance if you go through the BASI system you need 70 hours of teaching prior to even taking the level 2 course and another 200 before the ISIA tech/teaching exams.
the main point of the argument for me is what system should one choose for the long term should you wish to try to go up the ladder and teach for a "real living" (just slightly more than burger flipping money)
Getting hired isnt easy at the lower levels isnt easy but can be done with a bit of perserverance...
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| veeeight wrote: |
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who said anything like that?
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Jono (although he did say CASI which I'm not sure if he knew what he was saying) |
Sorry, didn't have my spelling head on, I did mean CSIA though.
And I'll try and re-iterate the point I was making, I wasn't taking anything away from the CSIA course, just from the very little amount of what I've seen and heard about the two courses; people that have done the BASI course over the CSIA course do seem to be a little better IMO, but also the people that have done both have reccomended the BASI course to me over the CSIA.
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