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How Steep Is Steep?
 brian
brian
Guest
It gets slightly more interesting as the cornice builds ...

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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person

horizon wrote:
davidof, those look tantalizingly outside my comfort zone! (but yummy...)

As a general comment, it's sometimes hard to judge steepness from photos. For instance, the following two photos are of the same couloir - seen across a valley and then from within looking down, when skiing it. (but the guide did make us rappel the last 10 yards or so, mostly because it was frozen ice when it narrowed down).








That's just the difference between measuring up for a coffin and needing a new pair of ski pants. They both look steep Very Happy
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

brian, I think your picture is a good one to caption.
I would say something like= 'now let me see if I can remember to get it right. I apply pressure to the downhill ski to turn or is it......?'
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brian, Holy crap! Shocked Shocked Shocked (Yes, I know I shouldn't have looked.) Still, I guess starting along there would save having to decide whether or not to jump in (see earlier posts) - you'd be in thin air for the first few seconds (minutes?) whichever way you started!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Wonder why there are no tracks... wink
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can't see how old the ones on the right are.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

And even if you were crazy enough to go in off that cornice you'd probably find that it broke off and chased you down the mountain.....
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!

Zero wrote:
And even if you were crazy enough to go in off that cornice you'd probably find that it broke off and chased you down the mountain.....


yeah, hucking cornices looks good on the extreme ski videos but is not such a great idea in real life... they tend to break at unexpected moments if you are underneath. General backcountry practise is to break a section of the cornice with a ski or saw (you are preferably roped) to see if it takes out the wind loaded slope below, then ski through the gap. YMMV.
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davidof, I saw one break this year about 15 seconds after a couple of skiers went over it. They then stopped about 50m below it for a chat and take in the view. Luckily came down quite slowly so they had some time to get out of the way after some shouting from the lift - "BEHIND YOU !!" Shocked
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davidof wrote:
.......General backcountry practise is to break a section of the cornice with a ski or saw (you are preferably roped)............


Never been beyond the crack line or likely crack line skiing. But when climbing in the snow, I was taught to treat cornices with great respect, and not go beyond the crack line un-roped or belayed. That said, I did it only for a week (a fantastic week in Glencoe) and so was very much a novice. Are you saying there are circumstances when a skier can be reasonably confident that a cornice won't give?
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achilles wrote:
Are you saying there are circumstances when a skier can be reasonably confident that a cornice won't give?


no definitely not and I agree 100% with your post.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.

Brian's photo shows the edge more as I remember it, with a big cornice. There were only two or three places to go in. II's photo, by contrast, makes the whole thing look possible, but perhaps that's because it was the start of the season.
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snowball, Not my photo it's Ben Thorburn's.
Backtrack is the easyest entrance as you traverse across the steepest bit.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.

Looking at the slope with the cornice from the viewpoint of the photo, I wouldn't ski it. Even without the overhang the aspect of the slope is all wrong which might explain why the tracks ski off left. With just the photo to go on, the face looks like the start of a choke point, the steepness is the least of the problems here.
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 brian
brian
Guest
This is the Backtrack entrance, the "advised" way in when they're worried about cornice collapse. There's a small lump of fencing at the top of the bit the skier's on to create a bank of snow to ski down. There's also an anchor point for a winch cat behind there but I've not actually seen them use it.



... and this is the view from the higher of the 2 entry points in the above photo.

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achilles wrote:
Never been beyond the crack line

But when skiing in Scotland you're always guaranteed that "the crack will be good"Smile
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person

This one off Roche de Mio, near La Plagne is a steady 40 degrees for the first 300m or so ..... and a great favourite of some snowheads Very Happy




.... but conditions on the day are everything. This day was GOOD..!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

BernardC wrote:
This one off Roche de Mio, near La Plagne is a steady 40 degrees for the first 300m or so ..... and a great favourite of some snowheads Very Happy




.... but conditions on the day are everything. This day was GOOD..!


Where abouts is this from the top of Roche?
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BernardC, I was there last year and had a quick look.

Conditions were very hard, icy and rocky.

I'm ashamed to say I tinned it Embarassed
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BernardC, But what a run out, surely you straight lined it?
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II wrote:
snowball,
Backtrack is the easyest entrance as you traverse across the steepest bit.


Easiest, yes, but not the best IMHO. Instead of a long traverse the higher entry (at the other end of the bowl) gives you a nice long(ish) series of linked turns down the fall line (and since it starts higher you get more turns anyway).
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

From looking at those pics, I would have to agree with snowball; that Backtrack entrance looks OK/fun, but a bit/lot tame by the standards of this thread. A man of brian's kalyber should be going for the snowball route Shocked (cornices permitting of course).

BTW - the last time I was up at Nevis, there was only a rope tow on Aonach Mor (which we could see as we hiked along CMD), and it was before I'd started skiing. Maybe I need to rectify that Cool .
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!

stoatsbrother wrote:


I suspect until you get beyond 45 degrees the key factors are the width and the run-out. Anyone could hack a steep 20 metres, 200 metres is a different ballgame.



Excluding snow conditions, weather, rocks, cliffs and obstacles, this is spot on.

The difficulty of a piste is about length, angle and width (LAW).

It can be quantified, on a scale of 1 - 10.

10 is hardest, 1 is easiest.

The top section of the Valluga in St Anton, on average, might be:

L = 4 (it is just a few hundred meters)
A = 9 (it is 40 - 50 degs)
W = 8 (it is wide at the top, but narrows at the bottom)

Total = 21 / 30

Trifide 1 in La Grave, on average, might be:

L = 8 (1000 meters or so)
A = 9 (it is 40 - 50 degs)
W = 9 (it gets fairly narrow in places)

Total = 26 / 30


In short, anything over 20 out of 30 is steep and difficult.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, 's

Quote:

BernardC, But what a run out, surely you straight lined it?


...I negotiated this couloir with 'great aplomb & style', whilst singing etc, etc..... (one may observe that I am in 'Charlie' position .... overcome by the beauty of my surroundings .... Toofy Grin )

...... those persons of dubious parentage at the bottom & most of them boarders to boot, Toofy Grin more or less straight ligned it. I do know that one of them, Mo-mo went down seven turns - I know because I counted ... Cool

.....Mi said that he did it to escape my singing ...... Toofy Grin

(But what a great day on the Orange planks from the Zoo .... ! & this was just en-route to the Bellecote .... Very Happy ....

....... aaah..! ....starts me thinking of the great days that are next season .....

aaah.. a Hamlet moment..... Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Trifide 1 is just a longer version of the flypaper....
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 brian
brian
Guest
GrahamN, been over both many's a time. What I haven't done yet is gone round to the next coire to do Spikes and Easy Gully (an easy winter climb not an easy ski btw). You really need the Braveheart running for these (and it hardly ever is) or it's a long walk out !
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.

Same here. A friend of mine did one of them, which required a jump and he had to get some climbers (this was their steep bit) to get out of the way for him to do it. They were rather impressed as he flew by! Cool
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Only 20 posts to go Madeye-Smiley
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