 Poster: A snowHead
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mod's edit I've split this discussion on steep skiing from this thread in snowEvents
| achilles wrote: |
| You should be happy off-piste, and confident of skiing steep but not extreme desperate. Let's say can cope with with a 45 degree slope OK. |
45* sounds too extreme for me. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'll be surprised if we do anything which is 45* on our trip 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Arno, 45 degrees is a steep pitch - but no more than say the start of The Tunnel at Alpe D'Huez. And if you go down the Grand Couloir at Les Deux Aples, especially off the side, you'll be hitting slopes of about that, maybe more. I'm not saying that I expect to be doing that all of a run, let alone all day - but I think it's about what we should be aiming to cope with. I think there were pitches that we came close to that with Phillipe, too - though I am open to correction. It's been a while since I went to La Grave but IIRC on the main face there must be pitches that hit 40 - and be practically impossible to avoid.
What I am really trying to say is I want folk not to be phased by a slope equal to a significant black - and maybe rather remote with no escape. Not sure the best way to put it, really?  I am open to suggestions on a re-edit.
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brian
brian
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achilles, main face where at La Grave ? You could get down the Vallons or Chancel with nothing over 30 degrees iirc. 45 degrees is very, very steep !
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
45* sounds too extreme for me.
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Mosha Marc, Suicidal to me 
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brian, Don't think it was that gentle when I went down it, but then I was led by a madman. I am surprised by the reaction. Slopes that skiers more expert than I have told me were 45 degrees, and very occasionally greater, have got me thinking, even churned my stomach, but were do-able. OTOH, I respect the views expressed here. I will seek expert advice.
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achilles, the Tunnel is not 45*. It might have been 42 at the top before they blasted the bail-out track. Don't want to give you a hard time and it is hard to judge slope angles (which is why I have bought myself a clinometer), but a slope which is 45* for any great distance is a pretty serious undertaking. Depending on conditions and the situation it is bordering on genuine extreme skiing.
Let's not get away from the main issue - this sounds like a great plan and I hope it's a great success.
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Arno, thanks, and I am not out to appear macho. I am trying to give the flavour of steep - but not couloirs like Triffide 1. It could well be that my laundry has told me slopes were steeper than I thought. I've asked easiski to help with a better form of words - I've clearly cocked up. What I am after is good steep stuff, but not extreme - and dare I say it, if the odd coffee break and lunch are for wimps - then I'll be a wimp.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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achilles, that sounds much more like it 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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davidof, I live (thankfully!) and learn. I must say when I was there, the start of The Tunnel was just plain awkward. Conditions were decidedly crisp, almost polished in parts. The natural line down had been bulldozed by borders - and I didn't fancy a schuss down it. So it was an awkward traverse across, and a sharp tun to the left to get going. Thereafter, it seemed much more civilised. Must say, it seemed plenty steep enough at the time!
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You know it makes sense.
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I can recall GrahamN and easiski searching out the steepest sides on the grand coulior in L2A. I have no idea how steep it was but it was pretty steep. I would say what is more important is the snow condition rather tha the steepness of a given slope.
achilles, I hope you get your numbers, have a terrific time and write up a report for us all when you get back. Best wishes.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| JT wrote: |
| I would say what is more important is the snow condition rather tha the steepness of a given slope. |
Or as the French put it for 45 degree+ slopes
"if it is powder I would take my sister, if is is ice, my mother in law"
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Poster: A snowHead
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| davidof wrote: |
Arno will know this slope, it is the breche du Neige Cordier
it is 42°
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it also illustrates the point. it did feel genuinely steep at some points and i was only climbing it with crampons and an axe.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The back of the Valluga is around 40 - 50 degs for a short pitch at the start. Plenty of reasonable intermediates hop their way down. It just takes a calm manner and good snow. Sometimes, life begins at 40 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Arno wrote: |
| Don't want to give you a hard time and it is hard to judge slope angles (which is why I have bought myself a clinometer), |
Arno, I like your style 
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PisteHead, so far it has sat in my pack, unused but I'm definitely going to get it out next winter!!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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davidof, Boy - those things are too expensive for casual use. If there was a cheap one out there I'd go for it, but over €100 dollars - whew!
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easiski, I may go for one - it might save me looking quite so much of an idiot next time I post.
I've dropped a line to Fenland Skier suggesting the thread be split so that the steepness chat goes into a thread called 'How Steep is Steep?' in The Piste - with an opening note saying how it started (I don't mind looking as though I am a fool, snowheads already know that I am). I've learned a lot - but I think the discussion is masking the original point of the thread - encouraging snowheads to have a go at some steep stuff.
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| achilles wrote: |
easiski, I may go for one - it might save me looking quite so much of an idiot next time I post.
I've dropped a line to Fenland Skier suggesting the thread be split so that the steepness chat goes into a thread called 'How Steep is Steep?' in The Piste - with an opening note saying how it started (I don't mind looking as though I am a fool, snowheads already know that I am). I've learned a lot - but I think the discussion is masking the original point of the thread - encouraging snowheads to have a go at some steep stuff. |
Yes, good idea.
I understood what you meant in your original post. Generally steep slopes (black steepness) off piste where there might be some short pitches of 45 degrees. In other words and introduction to steep. It's a good idea if you can find the conditions in January.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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easiski, i think mine was about EUR20 from Telemark-Pyrenees
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According to BernardC and Yoda (who patiently answered the same question from me all day) the steepest pitch that we did with Phillipe on the Friday at the EOSB was about 40 degrees, and that was a short section between two rock outcrops. I would have been comfortable on a slope slightly steeper than that, assuming reasonable snow, but 45 degrees is probably too far outside my comfort zone.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rob@rar, well, the Phillipe standard is what I think we should aim at. But of course what we could do would depend on conditions. easiski is pretty good at challenging but not terrifying - and we would be guided by her for choice of guide, I suggest. So I think what you are suggesting you would like is what I am aiming for, too.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| davidof wrote: |
| You want steep, try skiing with these guys.... |
Now, now. You'll frighten the children. And me
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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How steep is the initial part of the blue thuit at LDA, the bit with the red thuit just across the green cat run?
What about the initial part of Gours?
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Poster: A snowHead
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89 degrees, if you can put in a jump turn and can see the ground!!!!!!!!! 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I like steep and I have confidence I can deal with it but I am not so concerned with degrees.
The slope above looks ok to me... it looks pretty wide. What is above and below it may make it a completely different proposition.
Ditto, on day one the snow may be very kind, on day 4 it could be a hole new ball-game.
A fall may just be a question of how far you go...not always a good thing in itself, but with rocks below that would defo tighten your ***** ...!!!!
I have had guides tell me I MUST traverse a pitch and it was the best bit (steepest) on the route....grrrr..but when you saw the rocks and cliffs below which you probably would have reached in a fall, you can see that it was a very good decision.
Steep can be only just the beginning.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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For those who have skied lake louise the steeper whitehorn 2 gullies were near 45 degrees on the inclinometer of someone I skiied with a few years ago, but I am not so sure having looked at measurements for JH (below) probably nearer 40-42.
Alta 1 at Jackson hole is 42 degrees - but it is the rocks that get you... Tower 3 is 42 degrees at the start and the problem is more the narrowness in the middle pitch.
I suspect until you get beyond 45 degrees the key factors are the width and the run-out. Anyone could hack a steep 20 metres, 200 metres is a different ballgame.
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HMmmmmm . . . must be my monitor, I swear that long thin brown skidmark in the second picture above looks a bit blue 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Over 45 deg and you probably won't stop if you fall until you either reach the bottom or hit something. Steep I don't have a problem with if a fall doesn't mean it's my last one. Steeps above a cliff or rocks, no thanks.
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The no fall thing brings into question what binding settings you should use. As I well know, the consequences of a ski failing to release can be severe. OTOH, on something really steep, loosing a ski could be dire. Being an old codger, I skied with settings on 6.5 last year - and did not change them for the steeps. But as those in my party know, there was the odd occasion when I was rather cautious.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| achilles wrote: |
| The no fall thing brings into question what binding settings you should use. |
Over 40 degrees, particuarly on hard snow and I lock mine. I would not attempt to ski the jager under any circumstances though.
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brian
brian
Guest
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