 Poster: A snowHead
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| stevew wrote: |
| SMALLZOOKEEPER, when skiing in in rear entry boots I was told that when skiing steeper slopes to reduce the flex in the boot by using the slider - as I said thickie baton is here! |
Having skied in rear entry and in regular ski boots for quite a few years I've not once felt the need to adjust the flex, even if it is possible on some boots. stevew, do you frequently change the flex on your boots depending on the type of terrain you're skiing on?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rob@rar, not any more although I did tend to tighten them us as the holiday goes along but now seem to have found a happyish compromise between pain, comfort and skiability 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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My first ever boots were Sally SX61's or somthing like that. They had two sliding things between the lower and upper boot that increased or decreased the flex.
I'd have them stiff for icey snow and more flexable for bumps and the like.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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SmallZooKeeper, I've just won another pair of boots on ebay - they were really cheap at £10.50. Please would you let me know how easy it will be to get my feet into them and whether they would be good enough to take me on to the next level of skiing seeing as they should be a fairly tight fit. Details are here
ski boots I've just won on ebay
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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petemillis,
Oooh - stop it - I'm supposed to be preparing a brief for my minister not clutching my sides! or have you really, really, really 
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petemillis, for fun you could leave those outside a hotel room in the Alps overnight and see if they get polished - this was standard service in Swiss and Austrian hotels until the advent of plastic boots.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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holidayloverxx,
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Winning bidder: millisperformance
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He has actually won them.
Good work petemillis... I think...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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petemillis,
I'm sure Hello will be fighting off OK to take pictures of your lovely home......
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hertz rent-a-quote,
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As I say, invest the money and plenty of time with an inspired ski teacher. No fancy boots or high-precision fit required.
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Interesting.
I did invest the money with a good instructor last week in L2A. And, pretty quickly, he concluded that the main problems I was having were due to my boots. I'm very knock-kneed, left worse than right, and this was preventing me from edging the left ski properly - I just couldn't get the left ski onto its left edge enough as I physically couldn't bend my knee any more. My boots had no canting adjujstment and the bog-standard footbeds. One very thorough boot-fitting experience later, with custom footbeds and canting adjustment, and I noticed an instant improvement.
So, unless you're lucky enough to have feet which are very "normal" and your knees are perfectly aligned, I think a high-precision fit is most definitely required.
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jonm, Seems most of the ski instructors i work with agree too.
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You know it makes sense.
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Think there might be a mix-up of terms here - you can have a very close fitting "high-precision" fit or a not-so-close fitting comfort fit that won't solve your problem, OR you can have either a close-fitting "high-precision" fit or a not -so-close fitting comfort fit, each with adjustments made (i.e. cuff adjustments, special footbeds, canting) to correct your alignment problem.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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petemillis, I see what you're saying, but is a fit with canting/cuff adj and especially custom footbeds, not high-precision by definition? IOW what's the point of a custom footbed if it's not a close fit?
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Poster: A snowHead
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What I meant that a high precision fit can still be wrong. The boot can be precisely fitted to your foot - in either a close or comfort way, whichever is fit for purpose, but still failing to correct a problem. Like the fitter gets the correct shaped boot, the correct sized shell, sorts out pressure points so you've got a lovely high precision fit. But the cuff isn't adjusted, nothing is done with regard to canting. My buddy had boots fitted in just such a way yonks ago in Tignes, including custom footbeds, but no account was made of the fact that he walks like John Wayne. He found it harder to ski in these very close fitting boots thant he did in the sloppy rentals. And I don't think custom footbeds need to be the reserve of close fitting boots - a custom footbed is sure to provide benefit even in boots that have more of a comfort fit as well.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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petemillis, sure.
I think the important point I want to make is that it's essential to get boots fitted by an expert. I made the horribly naive mistake of buying some boots where getting them "fitted" merely meant heating them up and me standing in them in the shop. I shan't name the retailer, but suffice it to say that the difference with my new boots - that have been fitted properly and adjusted to take into account the peculiarities of my knees and feet - is amazing. (I can definitely recommend Carrel sports in LDA if anyone's there and needs new boots fitted!)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I love the way I just get ignored in these threads - and yes, I guess that is tantermount to giving you all permission to ignore this too 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Frosty the Snowman, OK, so you noticed an improvement - great - HOW did they know that they boots could be improved upon - did they have to rely on your verbal feedback, could the lack of fit be 'measured' or quantified in some way or did they just have x-ray eyes! I suspect that they rely on verbal feedback - if so does a more experienced skier stand a better chance of providing relevant information than the like of someone as novice as me?
holidayloverxx, 
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Megamum, I think they have to rely on your feedback. Only you can tell how/where the boot hurts/doesn't feel right etc. I'm not sure being a novice matters too much - I'm definitely a beginner and I was certainly able to tell my bootfitter where the problems were accurately enough for him to fix them.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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jonm, OK, so there is the crux of my point - if you have average feet are you really going wrong if you use your average local bootfitter and think your boots fit OK? Frosty the Snowman, says he thought his boots were comfy (I read fitted OK into that statement - I may be wrong), but 'the boys' improved things for him. He must have originally said that he felt the boots were OK - so what did 'the boys' do that showed him that things could be improved upon - I'm sure they did more than just make the boots overall tighter. Maybe they do have x-ray eyes!
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Megamum,
What are average feet? Do they exist? I can put a pair of boots on and know if they can through adjustment, be made to fit. Quite often a shop will sell you a pair of boots at least a size too big, so they feel comfortable, makes for a quick and easy sale. I've had my boots for 2 years, wear them 3 times a week all year, plus trips, and still only have enough room in them to wear liner socks only, not enough room for proper ski socks. Yet I can be in them all day, no problem. An experienced bootfitter will know exactly which boot will fit you before you even try them on. Until you've experienced what level of fit can be achieved, it's hard to describe, but it will improve your skiing.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
Frosty the Snowman, says he thought his boots were comfy (I read fitted OK into that statement - I may be wrong), but 'the boys' improved things for him. He must have originally said that he felt the boots were OK - so what did 'the boys' do that showed him that things could be improved upon
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They threw the old ones in the bin 
As I bent my ankle the boot was flexing open at the crucial area ie as I put my weight into the front of the boot the heel became slacker. I was told what should happen is that when the ankle is bent then the boot should actually increase its grip and push the heel into the back of the boot. Perhaps I didn't explain it well - If not I shall try again. Also rather than using the ball and toes to press down on the ski I can use the whole of the foot from the heel forward. This considerably increases feel, efficiency and reduces the point pressure on the ball of the foot.
The downside is that the toes feel cramped when walking in the boots, (fine when skiing)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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What are average feet
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I mean those folk who know they haven't got an obvious problem - a bunion, flat feet, raised foot bones etc.
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I can put a pair of boots on and know if they can through adjustment, be made to fit.
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Ah....but I wouldn't be able to do this.
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An experienced bootfitter will know exactly which boot will fit you before you even try them on
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So there is the problem in knowing how experienced and competent your boot fitter is. Although there wasn't much experience here of the chap I used - one or two folks said I'd be OK. So I have boots - to my limited experience they seem OK - the chap handed me the first pair and said that they would no doubt be the ones - but then had me try on several other pairs and still went back to the first ones - which weren't the most pricey either. How can I tell if they are OK or if I was sold a 'pup' and they can be improved upon? To chase the point how could an 'experienced' boot fitter tell if all s/she has to go on is what I tell her and for the moment I think they are probably OK?
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Megamum,
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Ah....but I wouldn't be able to do this.
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That's why it's important to use an experienced bootfitter.
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So there is the problem in knowing how experienced and competent your boot fitter is.
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Word of mouth is probably the best recommendation as well as reputation.
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how could an 'experienced' boot fitter tell if all s/she has to go on is what I tell her and for the moment I think they are probably OK?
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They know the shape of the boots on the market and match the boot shape and size to your feet, making any adjustments neccessary for a good fit, can make footbeds that offer the correct support and can align the boots to your stance, bow legged, etc.
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How can I tell if they are OK or if I was sold a 'pup' and they can be improved upon?
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If you are comfortable, you are more than likely OK, but you can always take yourself and your boots, along to CEM in Bicester or SZK in Chamonix and get a professional opinion, as to what you've got and if they can be improved.
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You know it makes sense.
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Spyderman, OK - maybe I need to come along to a  's bootfitting session. So in terms of bootfitting being a 'black art' or a 'science' it's a 'science'?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Megamum,
'Science' and 'Medicine'
Most of these Guys are trained in Biomechanics, Anatomy and Podiatry
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Tue 20-03-07 0:44; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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somehow I always thought that SZK was more of a 'medicine man' 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Frosty comments: "The downside is that the toes feel cramped when walking in the boots, (fine when skiing)"
A negative sign. Toes shouldn't butt, even when the lower leg isn't pressed forward (despite what some shops will tell you). The lower leg will be upright for much of the skiing day. Toe butting can cause black toenail, which is definitely something to be avoided!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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David Goldsmith, This is wrong David. Sorry. Ski Boots by definition, are ski boots, reducing the length of the boot will, too , reduce the volume to offer a better fit. Some of the manufacturers are elongating the toebox area to accomodate this kind of fit. When flexed, the toes will always move back, due to the resistance in the cuff. When we, unweight the skis, we stand upright to the rear preasure of the cuff, however we keep the knees slightly bent. As the boot coller is fixed onto the shell at around a 12 -18 degree angle, it will be impossible to walk in the boot and not touch the front if the boot is not 3-4cm too long.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| David Goldsmith, This is wrong David ... reducing the length of the boot will, too , reduce the volume to offer a better fit. |
I strongly disagree. Toes shouldn't butt, and the crucial area of fit doesn't relate to the toe area - it's the part of the foot around the heel, instep, forefoot and cuff. Giving people boots which are too short can result in black toenail. A little bit of roominess in front of the toes is welcome, so long as the main body of the foot is snugly fitted.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| The lower leg will be upright for much of the skiing day. Toe butting can cause black toenail, which is definitely something to be avoided! |
My lower leg has never been upright in any alpine ski boot I've worn, regardless of type. There has always been at least some flex built in to the boot.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Upright as distinct from vertical. The leg is upright, in that sense, for much of the skiing day.
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| David Goldsmith ... As the boot coller is fixed onto the shell at around a 12 -18 degree angle, it will be impossible to walk in the boot and not touch the front if the boot is not 3-4cm too long. |
Where does that figure of 3-4cm come from? It seems a gross exaggeration. The difference between a toe butting and not butting is more likely to be a length consideration nearer 0.5cm. That little bit of extra length won't affect the ski control for a recreational skier if the main body of the boot fits snugly.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| Upright as distinct from vertical. The leg is upright, in that sense, for much of the skiing day. |
That's quite a big distinction!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Is the leaning tower of Pisa upright? [it was designed by an Italian ski boot manufacturer]
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David Goldsmith, as legend has it, you haven't skied since the old days in Zermatt therefore haven't had a pair of modern ski boots fitted. May I suggest you visit one of 'our' bootfitters and experience how techniques and boots have changed over the years before making such sweeping generalisations as above.
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FAQ
