 Poster: A snowHead
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We (a group of us) have been planning for several weeks now to go on holiday before the end of the season, somewhere convenient (read ski-in, ski-out and high), cheap, which can accommodate some of the party (including children) for a full week and have a Sunday changeover for the weekenders. I was left with the instruction "See what you can come up with". I am (she says modestly) a genius, because I have found us such a place.
And *now* what do I get? "Oh well, we're not sure about X, Y, Z" (this is not Megamum's X, by the way  ), "we might want to wait a bit longer, see what else is available nearer the time". Ugh - it really is like herding cats.
Is this quite common practice for ski holiday organisation, or should I be planning to holiday on my own in future? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've always managed to sidestep the role of organiser for exactly that reason, by the time you've organised what they've asked for you're then faced with half the group dropping out and the rest saying they want to do something different 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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FenlandSkier, I can see I'm going to have to plan my diary a lot better for next season to take in either PSB or EOSB. I'll have a word with myself, see what I can arrange  .
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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clara_jo, i have organised several large trips and everyone has been a logistical nightmare - I have also been informed i am sorting out next years one too !
so i know how you feel !!
you can't please everyone, the one i did for this year i got no helpful input at all so i ended up not giving them much of a choice so there was nothing to complain about until we got there !! But.. so far so good .. each one i've arranged has been a success
so my advice is - tell them the one you have found is the best choice thats left and to hand over the money sharpish before it disappears !!
Good Luck
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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clara_jo, I do the organisation every year and, frankly, the only way to do it is to give people deadlines and if they don't answer by then, then tough, then I book the accommodation on the basis of the numbers we have at the time. It's more difficult at short notice, I think, as it's easier for people to faff but I think you need to get tough with them - tell them to MAKE AN EFFING DECISION or it will be made for them! Debbi seems to have the right approach
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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the trouble with organising is that you end up with the overall impression that at least half of the group dont appreciate all the effort you put into it.. see which ones make a point of thanking you or buying you a gift for all your work .. next year let all the rest make their own arrangements..
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CANV CANVINGTON, good point ! I only got one van chaud for my efforts this year ! and a quick thankyou from 2 more through the car window in Gatwick carpark as we were about to drive home !! Still... if i hadnt arranged it , we wouldn't of gone so, i would still do it again .
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eng_ch, the problem I have is the numbers available to me are.... um, let me see, one! Me! I'm going to feel a prat booking an apartment for 10 for a week when I'm the only one that's committed, and can only go for 3 days anyway! So, rockets up backsides time...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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eng_ch, I've been a long term organiser of large parties and I agree with you.
However, now I've retired from this role. Phew!
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eng_ch, you're spot on. clara_jo, you're the one doing all the work in organising the trip, so you decide where you're going and then tell the group what the deal is - then let them take it ... or leave it. Sounds harsh but in reality it's the only way that works.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| masmith wrote: |
| eng_ch, you're spot on. clara_jo, you're the one doing all the work in organising the trip, so you decide where you're going and then tell the group what the deal is - then let them take it ... or leave it. Sounds harsh but in reality it's the only way that works. |
Spot on. And cash up front in full - refundable (less any non-reclaimable costs) only if a drop-out has been replaced by by another person who has paid in his or her cash.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I've never had a trip orgainsed for me and have been taking divserse groups from 5 to 20 for week ends and weeks at a time for the last 10 years or so. I'd struggle now to let somebodyelse do it for me now. It looks like I have become a complete control freak. However, I now have a group of compatible friends who understand the rules but it did take a while to develop this.
My top tips.
1. This is a benign dictatorship.
2. I decide where I want to go and when and tell everybody. I don't provide choices because agreement will never be reached. You either want this deal or not. Most people won't go to the trouble of organising themselves anyway so will just say yes or miss the boat.
3. GBP100 deposit guarantees a place - non refundable and first come first served. Money upfront if it is a last minute one.
4. We tend to stay in chalets and I try to fill the chalet to maximise discounts. I do not release discounts until I have filled the chalet and received all monies as this provides me with some wriggle room if I have drop outs post deposit. Generally I keep the discounts to pay for the staff's day off dinner.
5. People that don't add value to my holiday don't get invited again.
6. I used to get a bit upset that nobody ever said thank you but it doesn't bother me now and to be honest the whole process is pretty painless. eg I just orgainsed a last minute trip to Puy St Vincent for 2 families including flights accomodation ski school transfers etc off the back of quite a lot of internet research, a couple of emails and three phone calls. I have the other families cheque in my wallet already.
7. Think of the groups you have. Beginners are fine to take but not in isolation. ideally 2 or more beginners but not a beginner couple. My experience shows that one partner in a couple will love it and the other will not. This leads to disharmony and impacts adversely on my holiday. Also if taking children it is critcal that parents have similar outlooks on discipline, eating and bedtimes. We have at various times spent a week entertaining other peoples' children or being forced to pander to young children several hours after ours are in bed sound asleep.
The above sounds harsh but I always present it in a friendly manner and we have consistently had great skiing holiday.
If you are just doing a long week end don't get suckered into arranging a week or other alternatives for other people.
You organised it you get first choice of room.
and so long as you enjoy the trip it is a success
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ashton parker, 100% agree. Could have written that myself (except too busy organising )
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You know it makes sense.
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I agree with Ashton! If I am organising I tell them when, where and how much and when I want the deposit (i ALWAYS take a deposit). If they have payed the get booked and if they haven't then they aren't included and can make their own arrangments.
Onthe other hand - I have a mate who has organised a ski trip for us this season (18 of us flying out tomorrow). When I am not the organiser I do this - say YES OR NO, pay immediately - that way it makes life easier for the guy organising it!
In terms of who goes - I find that generally people that spoil the holiday for everyone else don't get invited again - problem solved!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I think, all things considered, on this occasion, being single, I shall follow them wherever the biggest family in the group decide. And shan't offer to help choose again
I am quite prepared to sort out our girls' weekend and mixed group (no families, no children) next season, because I know that I am dealing with "yeah whatever" types, but it's looking like it is the family with children that are going to be the ones with the swaying power this time round. Over to them for the organisation...
ashton parker, I like your list. I shall refer to it again!
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Poster: A snowHead
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And does anyone else have the problem where one of the lucky people - so-called friends - whose holiday has been organised for them gets there early AND WHIPS THE BEST ROOM?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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poma, that's not on, quite frankly, and they should be turfed out. Seriously. Our organiser deserved every sq. metre of the palatial room she and her husband got. (And he deserved it for being driver.)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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poma, the organiser gets first choice, end of.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I never have any problems. We have to pay a deposit on booking, so a deposit is paid promptly by the friends. They don't do the dirty on me because they are friends. We usually have a holiday on hold for a few days and they value my judgement. They will only be in on it if they have already agreed to the dates.
EDIT: Item 7 on Ashtons list is so true.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Parents who are over-protective of their kids are the biggest PITAs when arranging a holiday.
I was pestered incessently by friends of friends before a trip:
- will we have adjoining rooms?
- is there an interconnecting door?
- can they order exactly what they please at meal times?
- will they have to mix with other children?
- will their little legs make it to the lift station?
- will they be abandoned after a lesson?
- etc, etc, etc.
From giving detailed explanations, I was reduced to saying that my kids had been several times and seemed to have survived, socialised, got fit, self-reliant, etc. They were just as fussy when they turned up. They didn't ask to come again.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Fri 23-02-07 17:20; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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laundryman, I bet their kids loved it though.
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laundryman, Send them Mark Warners web address
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I think the problem with this trip is that my idea of cheap and some of the others' idea of cheap are two entirely different things. And when they said "we just want to get an extra week in before the end of the seaon" the underlying subtext was "but it needs to be as nice as the main holiday we had, but not cost us as much". And whereas I will sleep in the equivalent of a cell with a mattress if it means more time on skis, they want the spanking new chalet-style apartments BUT at a last-minute price. Ok, I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't prefer that, myself, but it seems the word "compromise" is missing in here somewhere.
I've got the days booked off and everything 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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clara_jo, When are you going?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Swirly, yes!
Frosty the Snowman, I think that's what they were used to; our haunt is a bit more rough and ready - and raucous good fun!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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TallTone, lol. Can't do the EOSB, got other commitments this year (damn, damn, damn).
I've got time off (and children being looked after ) from 22-25 March inclusive. The rest of the group wants to go 18-25 March, so in theory, it's doable and perfect.
I think my problem is that I'm a do-er and once I have an idea in my head, others' flakiness drives me to the point of distraction.
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having done the very un 2st century thing of having my kids in my early 20s' (i belive either late thirties or in your teens is the fashion now) most of my friends have kids from 2 to 8 yrs old.. once you get used to travelling with teens there is no going back.. even watching it is painful
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You know it makes sense.
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dont even get me started on mealtimes.. oh we have to eat before 6.. have you any organic cheese.. can we gat a table all together (at peak time) blah etc aarrgghhhh!!!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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CANV CANVINGTON, I agree!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Haha, never ever ever never be the organiser of such a complicated holiday. Ski holidays are not the easiest of choice to be the project manager for. In my university people stay as the ski club president/secretary/vice president for only one year stints, and it's not hard to understand why. There is always so much arguing on where to go, how much for, how to get there and the rest of it. I would never want this job, not even for money.
Everyone has an idea of their dream ski holiday but even though these items they "think" they want as part of it are not part of it, they still have a great time that I've always seen so far - and I've been about 8 or 9 times now. They never regret it even though the built in sauna and fitness room was part of a hotel they had no access to 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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CANV CANVINGTON, I'm losing the power of rational thought just contemplating it!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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laundryman, It's always the same, I used to help out with Scouts and the kids who we were continiously informed didn't like this and wouldn't eat that normally both eonjoyed this and loved to eat that once out of their parents watchful (and most probably nagging) reach.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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FAQ
Oh and it's a chalet-style apartment without bars on the windows 
