Parents' responiblity for safety in ski classes - including original quote [title edited]

A snowHead

I've not gone digging for the references but my memory says that there is an intersection where risk meets reality and in high risk sports activities that tends to be 6:1 as the median participant to instructor ratio. Lower than that and the risk curve flattens out, above that and it rises exponentially(?).

I'd be more interested in communication quality between instructor and pupil(victim) than outright numbers. They both have to be able to understand each other in order to both teach and learn.

A snowHead

Hello! Gabriel's dad here. I've been watching this thread since my original note on the SCGB forum got linked / re-posted. One thing about nursing a small person with a broken leg in a ski hotel is that you have plenty of time on your hands, so I thought I would register and update / respond to a few comments.

Firstly, thank you to those who have expressed kind wishes for Gabriel's recovery. He is in pretty good spirits, and I will be taking him home tonight.

There seem to be a number of themes running in this thread: the inevitability of risk in snowsports (and life), the question of ski group sizes for children, and the role of parents in managing risk for their children. I get the feeling some posts are just rehearsing established positions, but it is good to see some considered debate too.

Let me address the general point about risk first. All physical activity (and inactivity!) brings risk. I spent 10 years racing motorcycles so am intimately acquainted with emergency medical facilities from the inside and the outside. I am also a qualified motorcycle instructor, so have some perspective on managing training groups. Gabriel has never been wrapped in cotton wool, and never will be. He has been cycling without stabilisers from the age of 3, rollerblading from 4 and skiing from 6. He participates in a junior football league, and does karate and fencing. When he is old enough, I look forward to taking him scuba diving with me as well. (If I'm honest, I kind of hope he won't follow me into motorcycle racing, but if he does, fine.) In all these activities, there is managed risk. I accept that, and have no patience with the 'no child may ever be hurt' culture in the UK. In fact, the more relaxed and realistic attitude here in France is one of the things I like about France and the French.

Turning to the question of group sizes for children's lessons, I think my view now is that the ESF does allow excessive group sizes, both for effective learning and for safety. I believe a group of 12 mixed nationality 7 to 12-year olds, led by an instructor with limited English is on the margin of what is acceptable as 'managed risk' in normal conditions. The conditions when Gabriel had his accident were not normal; they were very difficult, with lots of new, wet, sticky snow, high winds, falling snow/sleet and very, very poor visibility. One poster has commented that Gabriel 'effectively caused his own accident' by falling heavily. As a statement of cause-and-effect that may be correct, but I think it misses the point: with a week's experience on prepared pistes, and with no instruction that he recalls or understood on how to manage his skis differently in powder, he was not skilled or equipped for the conditions he was led into. If I let him do some cutting on the electric band-saw in my garage without instruction or supervision and he cut off his hand, would you say he 'caused his own accident'?

That sounds dangerously like I am blaming the ESF, and that is not something I want to do. The ESF is the ESF, and they run their business (yes - it is a business) the way they see fit. My whole thrust is that, as parents and as skiiers ourselves, we need to take responsibility for our own safety, and not abdicate it to the ESF or anyone else. There have been a number of comments that I am carrying excessive guilt for what has happened to Gabriel. I am not; in fact I think I lack the gene for guilt. I do, however, accept responsibility for it. In my view, for us to learn and develop as human beings, we must be aware and realistic about our own behaviour and actions, accept responsibility, and adapt. It is true that Gabriel could have fallen anywhere, and that he could have had the same accident in a small group. The reality that I acknowledge, however, is that I was uncomfortable about the group size and the conditions: my instincts were shouting at me and I ignored them; I deferred to 'authority' of the way things are done here. (A small digression: anyone interested in psychology will know of or be interested in Milgram's experiments on obedience to authority - lessons for all of us there.)

My original post was an appeal to parents to follow their own judgement and instincts, as I failed to do. I do not suggest for a minute that parents should interfere in the teaching of their children, or tag along behind classes. Having decided you are happy to send your child into ski school, send them; get on with the day and enjoy your skiing. What I do propose, however - and what I will now demand of myself - is that you actively DECIDE, every day. On the day Gabriel had his accident, I didn't actively decide to send him; I just took him along on autopilot. That is not guilt talking; it is just being real, and it is a lesson to learn from. When we go skiing next year - which we will - it will become part of my pre-ski drill for Gabriel: chocolate in the right pocket: tick; orange in the left pocket: tick; thought about the conditions and the group, and happy to let him ski: tick.

Finally, let me say again, I am not ESF-bashing, however popular a sport that may be. I acknowledge Gabriel's accident could have happened even in a small group, but I also accept that my (non-)decision to send him into that lesson that day was inappropriate, and would have been inappropriate even if he had not been injured. I am ready to learn from that, and hope others will too. We will be back skiing next year, and I will be arranging individual lessons for Gabriel - not because I think groups are inherently bad, but because I have in mind a wonderful teacher in Les Deux Alpes who I trust to help him rebuild his confidence. After that it will be back to groups for the social aspect that Gabriel so much enjoys, but I will be wary of large groups, and will be reviewing every day whether I am satisfied with the arrangements.

If you're coming out to France next week, I hope you have a wonderful time. The conditions are fabulous, and this is a wonderful sport, even with the occasional knocks.

Best wishes, Paul

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PaulClark, an excellent post, and welcome to snowHeads. I read your thread on the Ski Club forum as well. I have quite often been quite shocked when I've seen large numbers of children in classes with only one instructor and thought that there's no way the adult could be properly 'in charge' of them all.

I have great sympathy for you and Gabriel - it's a horrible shock when your son is hurt and in pain like that - I know, it happened to our son, who was seven at the time, in Andorra. They set his leg without any pain relief and his screams were awful, and we had a very bad night or two because he was scared and in pain. Ten years later he's still skiing, probably better than his dad and me!

I think you're right and, in hindsight, he probably shouldn't have gone into ski school that day. But hindsight is a wonderful thing, and you, and now lots of other parents, have learned from it. He'll be a hero at school with his leg in plaster Very Happy

Best wishes for a safe journey home with him.

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PaulClark, welcome to sH snowHead

and as Rachel said, an excelent first post.

My daughter broke a bone in her leg last year, so I can empathise to a degree with your current situation. She made a full recovery and we go to France on Sunday.

Hope you can enjoy the remainder of the holiday and that Gabriel makes a full and speedy recovery.

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PaulClark, welcome to the nut-house. Sorry that you've been discussed in the third person but it is an interesting subject and one we all need to consider. It's only through informed discussion can we make choices that keep us and ours safe . . . Plus influence service providers to meet standards that we set rather than we are forced to accept. In this case it seems that there were errors of judgement all round . . . It's up to communities like this to not let that happen again.

And yes we've all fallen out of trees etc. Life isn't safe, but what none of us need is for the odds to be stacked against us before we do something stupid. wink

edit: AAAAGH!!! MEA CULPA, I'M AN INSENSITIVE T**T, please give Gabriel my best wishes for a safe and speedy recovery and not to stick anything sharp down the cast.

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PaulClark, welcome to SnowHeads, my best wishes to Gabriel for a speedy return to the ski slopes. My apologies, I wasn't suggesting that you were ESF-bashing, as I am no longer a SKi Club member, I can't read the post in the forum. I hope that both of you will continue to enjoy your skiing in the future.

After all it is free

I do think that groups of 12 or more are too big. However as I understand it that's the officially recorded max number for classes throughtout france in the ESF and most of the ESIs. It's the same in the Austrian ski school and used to be in the Swiss ski school. Too many people want lessons at the same time and the schools are obliged to provide lessons for everyone with a TO that they have a contract with. Education for the newer skier is needed to not book automatically with the TO and to choose their school themselves - but they mostly don't know this is an option. Sad

WRT the accident in question, I don't quite see the problem. shame the boy broke his leg, but that happens in life. It was a clean break of the tibia so a relatively easy one. You can't take your kids out of ski school for a day and expect them to go back the next day - the group will have moved on and they won't. It will also make the kids into the sort of wussy english children that so abound these day (I've had 2 this week)... I would not accept a child back after a day's absence for no better reason than that the weather was bad. Skiing is something we do outside in the mountains in the winter time - bad weather is part of it, however unpleasant.

I do have to say, though, that where I've only had 4 peeps streatchered off the mountain in over 30 year's teaching, I do know of instructors who have one a week. Shocked

I agree that it's a shame that Gabriel broke his leg, but I don't think that a smaller group would have prevented it. I do think that you have a responsibility as a parent to ensure that your child has adequate care and supervision, but equally you need to trust the professional who is supervising your child to make appropriate judgements as to safety and lesson numbers. I think that if you have a legitimate concern as to the supervision then you should take steps to rectify it, however I don't think that looking at the weather is cause for concern.

When it comes to instincts, dangers and our children, they're not always trustworthy IMO.

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PaulClark, welcome to snowHeads and my apologies for describing you as Gabriel's Mum Embarassed

I must read slower and think quicker in future.

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PaulClark, welcome to snowheads. I don't think I would necessarily agree that poor conditions mean you "should" have taken Gabriel out of the class. When we have visitors at our apartment, and conditions are really bad, I always tell them that with a ski instructor is the very best place to be, and I believe that to be true, despite the occasional accident. It is uncommon for accidents to happen in ski lessons, and I know of several which have happened specifically because of people disregarding instructors' advice (one woman in a chalet we stayed in broke her neck trying a run in the afternoon which her instructor had actually told her, during the morning class, was too difficult for her. What an idiot. Expert and prompt first aid and a great deal of expenditure by her insurance company bailed her out). Best wishes to Gabriel for a prompt recovery. snowHead

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PaulClark, Welcome to sHs and best wishes for a speedy recovery to Gabriel.

I really do think there should be an Instructor taking up the rear when skiing with children. Another issue I have is with lifts; whilst in Tignes this year, we witnessed a very small child (age 5yrs ish) being thrust onto a TBar with a 6'2" heavy set man. They both struggled, and needless to say the child fell off and the man then also had to dismount to rescue her.

I did, however, notice in Switzerland that there were two Instuctors with the childrens groups.

IncogSkiSno, I agree a responsible person in the rear would be a good thing, but many people would not be prepared to pay the extra for another employee, and + there are insurance considerations if this person was not a fully qualified instructor. If they were then half the people on holiday wouldn't be able to have lessons at all. there's no easy answer.

You know it makes sense.

easiski, Interesting. I have read your previous posts on the money that instructors earn, and it is clear that someone other than the instructors is making money here.

The UK half-term and other holidays do lead to surges in demand which must be difficult to cope with, but I believe that - not dealing with the specifics of the accident Gabriel had - there is a duty-of-care upon ski-schools accepting pupils and being temporarily in loco parentis, which is not voided by all the "skiing is inherently dangerous" posts so far, and there should be clearly defined maximum pupil:teacher ratios for young children especially. We all know how quickly they can get themselves into trouble, and I think it is unrealistic in what is fundamentally a hostile alpine environment (cold, slippy, strange, other snow-users etc etc) to expect an instructor to look after more than 6-8 older kids or 4-6 younger ones. I think ski schools need to be willing to say "we are full", and maybe to insist on pre-booking of kids ski-school places to allow proper planning.

This is one reason why our kids have had all their skiing in North America, where they have never had more than 4 in a group lesson, and often just 1 or 2. I think this is clearly safer in all sorts of ways, and also leads to a better standard of tuition. When they can ski well (and the 10 year old is pretty good in bumps, trees and powder now) then I will take them to Europe.

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[quote="Lizzard"]

A snowHead

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PaulClark, A refreshingly open account - well done, & I'm glad Gabriel is on the mend Very Happy

Last Easter, my daughter (21at the time & studying French at uni) helped out at the ESF in Plan Peisey. She is a reasonable skiier - & they had her helping in the nursery area & then as they progressed, the nursery slopes - following on & picking up stragglers. She enjoyed it & found it very hard work physically. She said that the children who behaved badly, were the ones who's parents were clucking around throughout the lesson, & once left to the instructor, concentrated more & improved rapidly. She was also amazed at the apparent ability of the instructor to see exactly what was going on at the end of the snake!

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Back home with Gabriel now. He tolerated the journey (2 trains and 3 ambulances: excellent arrangements by CEMA for Woolwich Insurance) extremely well, and is in fine spirits.

It is an interesting reflection on our modern culture of blame and over-protectiveness that a modest proposal for parents to be a bit more proactive in considering the suitability of teaching arrangements has been interpreted quite so often as a desire to meddle in the conduct of lessons or 'wrap in cotton wool'. Perhaps more parents than I realise have that attitude.

In exactly this vein, I must come back on the comment from "Easiski" that she would not have a child back in class who had been taken out for a day for "no better reason than the weather". I should declare an interest here: Charlotte (Easiski) taught me to ski last year. She is an exceptional teacher and will be my first choice to get Gabriel back on the slopes next year. (Will be in touch later in the year, Charlotte.) However, she misinterprets me if she thinks I suggest considering taking a child out of class JUST because of bad weather. My point was that I will consider the conditions AND the group/instructor. With Charlotte, that would be easy: if she is happy to take Gabriel out on a certain piste on a certain day, I would trust her judgement unequivocally. But having discovered the joys of travelling by train to the snow, we will not want to go to Les Deux Alpes where Charlotte teaches every year, so there will be times - like this year - when Gabriel has to be with instructors who I am less completely comfortable with. And yes, while I am certainly not in the business of raising a wussy kid, I think it will be appropriate to consider the conditions alongside the instructor.

I started my original thread in the SCGB forum with the determination not to blame anyone for Gabriel's accident, and I will stick to that. But Charlotte's comment about knowing instructors who have one pupil stretchered off a week against her record of about one per decade has got me thinking. Even allowing that the comment may have included a bit of hyperbole, there should not be such a discrepancy. Just because snowsports has inherent risk, that should not be a cover for completely avoidable risk. If Charlotte - and doubtless hundreds of other excellent instructors out there - can manage a very low accident rate, we should all demand that those who are at the high end of the accident curve learn from their more excellent colleagues and improve their performance.

The comment has been made that it is hard for us all as individuals to know where practices are good, and to apply pressure where there are unsafe practices being followed. But we do have one weapon: most of us book through tour operators, and tour operators take a cut on lessons, which we could equally well book direct. When booking a ski holiday, we should therefore DEMAND that the tour operator is managing, adding value to, and accepting liability for, the quality of the instruction, or book direct and cut them out of their margin. Last year, we skied with Mark Warner and they were excellent. Gabriel had instruction from ESF instructors (who were lovely), but Mark Warner bind the ESF by contract to provide the same instructors for the season, exclusive to Mark Warner guests; to meet certain standards of English; and to limit group sizes. By contrast, Crystal who we went with this year disclaim all responsibility for the lessons, and just take a cut. Mark Warner earn their margin; Crystal do not, and we should collectively refuse to book lessons with them and similar operators until they step up and take responsibility for the product.

We must also ask those inside the industry what they are doing. Charlotte: I know you are passionate and courageous about confronting those who injure children on the slopes through reckless skiing. How far will you go to confront those - like the example you cite - who are injuring their pupils through reckless instructing?

I have put my hand up to my own responsibility as a parent in failing to secure safe teaching (in terms of group size) for Gabriel. Others have identified the power of the tour operators over the ski schools as an issue. Perhaps as parents and customers of the tour operators, we have more power than we realise to improve things.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

PaulClark,

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PaulClark, am interesting post

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

slikedges, hear hear....

I think more than anything I take away from this thread a feeling of uncertainty about how responsible the ESF feels for children under its care. I am sure there is excellence out there, but I cannot see that lessons of above 8 kids with a single instructor are safe or effective, espescially in poor visibility conditions, and kids should not be exposed to risks just because they might fall behind a day or the school cannot make suitable provision. In addition the longer snakes also present a significant obstruction to other skiers.

However - the real villains perhaps - looking online at prices - may be us - the parents....

Looking at prices online for 5 days ski school including meal and supervision at lunchtime - and I may well have completely screwed this up here... please feel free to tear to shreds.

ESF Tigne le lac 231.60 euros = £155 approx - max 12??? per instructor

Evolution 2 at Tignes = 365 euros = £250 approx - max 8 per instructor - all instructors in radio contact with base.
Altitude ski school Verbier = 675 CHF = £280 - 3 to 6 kids per instructor
Jackson Hole Ski School = $550 = £282 - max 4 per instructor
Whistler Ski School = $Can 535 = £240

Is there a bit of a pattern emerging?

petemillis, I can obviously only speak about France, but anyone responsible for others on a mountain has to be qualified to do so. If the helper was under the supervision of the instructor that would not help much would it? Just another person to supervise. this is why the "extras" only work in the jardin (and just outside later in the week). I think it would be a good idea, and I think it would be a good idea if classes were limited, but remember the thread about british ski schools and their prices?

As stoatsbrother,suggests people are not always willing to pay for smaller group lessons or for additional staff. I don't think (not trying to be snotty) that many of you realise just HOW busy everyone is during the holidays - I've had many, many emails last week from peeps wanting private lessons - 1 or 2 - in the morning - this week! Shocked

they sometimes seem put out that they can't get exactly what they want at the last minute! The shops here have almost no small skis left and there are parents weeping because they can't hire skis for their little ones! (really Jutta told me). By tomorrow lunchtime there won't be a single instructor free for a single hour for the whole of the week. Shocked

this happens every year. rolling eyes

To get back on subject though; Hello Paul - didn't realise it was you! Very Happy

You see what a lively bunch we are now don't you???? You've certainly kicked off an interesting debate, and thanks for the vote of confidence folks.

WRT how far I would go about instructors with poor injury rates - there's actually nothing I can do. They're all self employed and the worst offenders are "permanents" that is part of the collective. They can't even get rid of the alcoholics! (ESF & ESI here).

Just this afternoon some people in a group with some of my peeps did not want to book afternoon lessons with the European ski school, but prefer to wait and hope for tomorrow morning because they want morning lessons, and how good the school or how many in a class or how good the english spoken is, is neither here not there. Shocked

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At base it's the instructor you have to be comfortable with, if you aren't you'll be second guessing them all the time. You have to share the same evalution of acceptable risk. Even at the dry ski slope where I used to teach there was a huge and noticeable risk scale from one instructor to another. I don't think I even had an accident go into the books and I don't remember ever loosing someone from one of the 6 week courses - several of my colleagues considered a few strained thumbs, twisted knees and a 20% dropout rate to be 'normal'. They believed you had to push to make progress, I believe that a) you don't and b) even if you did most people would rather do a bit less well and finish in one piece!

Some people would rather they were taught by my colleagues, others rather by me. I suspect the problem is that the esf tends towards the laidback end of the scale and most people would prefer their kids at least were under the care of someone more like me.....Would I take 12 kids up the mountain, on my own, in deep wet snow, christ no. I used to have enough trouble with 10 of them on a 20m baby carpet slope!

The other issue is that I (all of us!) know enough about skiing to make a choice - if we rock up with my friends 6 year old at a lesson and don't like the look of it we'll have no issues saying 'actually never mind, we'll do something else' and going and booking private lessons, insisting they split the group, a different instructor etc. Thats what 10 years ski experience gives you. But if like Paul you are new to it all, wouldn't you be inclined to 'trust the experts'? "Maybe I'm just being silly, they are called the ski school of france after all - surely they are regulated and safe, everybody else is obviously ok with it, it must be the done thing....". Thats the bit that worries me because every holiday I see things I think shouldn't happen and usually with an ESF or ESI badge at the front - teeny kids slipping and sliding all over the place and an oblivious instructor 200 yards down the hill.

Glad to hear Gabriel is coping well and wish him better luck next year!

aj xx

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stewart woodward, I should probably have qualified my statement a bit. Last year, I was informed this was the case at Les Deux Alpes by both Mark Warner staff, and by the team of ESF instructors working with the Mark Warner children's groups. The same three or four instructors were definitely covering all classes throughout the season at La Berangere, and all children's classes were exclusively in English, and exclusively for children staying at that hotel.

I understand that similar practices are followed by Mark Warner in other resorts where they operate, although you are correct that this is not always with the ESF. There must be some exceptions, as MW have a few chalet hotels that are adult-only apart from Xmas and Half Term, and clearly they can't be retaining the same instructors to teach children for a full season in locations where they only take children for a couple of weeks a year.

Whilst I am not sure of the precise implementation in every location, my underlying point is that MW are doing the right thing by becoming involved in managing the quality and delivery of training by their contracted partners, rather than just passing through (over-)bookings on freesell and raking off a commission. They deserve to be supported with lesson bookings. Operators who add no value of their own do not.

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When my daughter was working in the Jardin with ESF, she said the Espirit nannies were very watchful of their charges - came to lessons & stayed with them, & took them home if they got overtired & overwrought!

An afterthought - I would not my post above to be seen in any way as critical of Paul's choice in using the ESF - merely to point out that the ESF may not be able to provide more intensive supervision than they do at the prices they charge, which may be determined by what their core market are willing to pay...

Knowing which Ski School to choose to use is pretty difficult when you get to a resort you do not know well, espescially if you are relatively new to skiing, and TOs may possibly not suggest a choice of School and Hire shop, as it may make their life easier if all the punters use the same one...

You know it makes sense.

PaulClark,

I have taught Mark Warner kids/adults and whilst all the instructors could speak very good english the classes were not exclusivly for MW clients.
The only TO i know who has exclusive classes is Ski Esprit, a TO who does not always get great coverage on snowHead

The exculsive classes are probably due to their lessons being 2.5 hrs not 3 hrs.

The ESF in Tignes does offer guaranteed class sizes but for a different cost. We still get more people booking on the cheaper courses rather than the more expensive guaranteed class size!

geri

Esprit nannies usually stop in the Jardin with the younger children (3-5 yr olds) but they do not ski with the groups who go on the mountain.

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pam w, that's exactly it. Very Happy

For the record: the phone hasn't stopped ringing today with peeps wanting cours collectifs for their kids - driving me mad. Mostly French, but a number of brits as well. Shock

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Having just come back from a Swiss holiday with a 7 & 4 yr old in ski-school I know that my pair are best left alone to have their lessons. If I am within eyeshot they do not concentrate on their lessons and only want to show off in front of me, or with the youngest he want to come to me. I have no experience with ESF, but the Swiss ski school in our resort seem to provide one teacher per max 8 kids, two per 8 with the youngest and all seem to be in radio contact with their base. If the kids need to come down they look after them at the office and come to find me on the slope. I am quite happy with these arrangements, but do feel that it would be wrong to blame the teacher if any of them got injured - a) the teacher would already feel bad enough, and b) its a dangerous sport - accidents happen - would you blame yourself if you gave them a two wheeled cycle and they fell off and broke their leg? I wouldn't, so why should we blame an instructor if they trip over their own skis - they wouldn't learn if they weren't being stretched to do something new. As with my own ski education the kids will have to learn to ski in all conditions, if they can experience bad conditions with a qualified instructor then so much the better.

PaulClark, I hope Gabriel gets better soon, and that he goes back to ski school. As others have said, his plaster will be admired at school and become quite a talking point. Certainly find a school that you are happy with, but then if he were mine I would let him go if he wishes - I find with mine that you can't wrap them up in cotton wool.

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As some of you will know, I'm currently training for my BASI 3 with BASS in Morzine. Having just spent three weeks shadowing maximum group sizes of 6 I've found this thread both thought-provoking and fascinating. I've spent quite a lot of time thinking about the thread since I came across it yesterday. The thread prompted fierce debate amongst our group of trainees whlst we were free skiing today.

First of all PaulClark, welcome to snowHead

s. It's a shame that Gabriel's accident was the thing that brought you to us and he has my best wishes for a full and swift recovery.

Yes, we like a dangerous sport. Yes, the accident could have happened when skiing with a parent.

But a fundamental job of a ski instructor is to choose appropriate terrain and ensure it's traversed safely. None of us having seen Gabriel's accident it's impossible to make specific comment. But I can relay and incident I saw last week.

One of the groups I was shadowing was second week skiers - broadly 2eme etoile skiers in the ESF system. The instructor chose to lead them into deep snow and it was carnage - five out of six fell. Three needed help getting back up because they couldn't deal with the snow in their bindings. The instructor in question chose 20-30m of deep snow between two green runs. He positioned himself halfway through the snow and asked me to stay at the top. He told the children to run straight to get used to the feeling of the snow. He specifically told them not to turn. He set them off on parallel courses to minimise the risk of collision.

The bottom line is that the instructor knew that if he led that level of skier into deep snow that it was a near certainty that they would fall and need help.

If anyone thinks that having twice the number of children in the group doesn't either affect the difficulty in safely managing the group or the pressure on the instructor to find challenging terrain then they should try shadowing a ski lesson. I found it hard enough to keep track of six girls, all in pink, skiing directly in front of me.

Just my two penneth - and what would I know - I neither have children, nor am qualified in any way.

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PaulClark, & other parents

Its half term/French/Dutch/Belgium/etc holidays and our buisiest week this season here in Tignes.

The ESF is FULL yes FULL and the other ski schools are the same. Our director has decided on maximum class sizes for kids and adults and we have stopped selling lessons.
The problem is we still have parents basically begging us to accept their kids and now having to decide how they are going to 'teach' their kids.

So what do you do? Teach them yourselves or don't let them ski?

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boredsurfin , What a facetious comment about Ski Club you made near the start of this thread- what did Ski Club have to do with anything ? - time for an apology now ? That would be nice. rolling eyes

Help!!

Parents' responiblity for safety in ski classes - including original quote [title edited]

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