 Poster: A snowHead
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| kermit wrote: |
Face the fear every new resort, new run, 1st morning...
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I always start first morning, first run on something easy. Asking for trouble otherwise. I only start pushing my limits after a few days. Never hurt myself skiing that way in 25 years. That doesn't mean I ski easy stuff all the time either.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You overcome it when you know that you can always make a turn to slow down.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| Whitegold wrote: |
F1 is mostly about repetitive driving.
The same cars with the same technology on the same short tracks.
Round and round in circles.
Going a little bit faster, or a little bit smoother, each time.
All that stuff about superhuman skills in F1 is mostly hype.
It sexes up the sport. So they can charge higher prices. |
In your humble opinion right?
There is a grain of truth in some of the above, but it's not THAT easy. Imagine yourself at the start of a race, sitting in the cockpit. Engine sitting on hold at 14,000 rpm, cockpit temperature 50+ degC. Start lights go off, you drop the clutch (reaction time 0.15 sec), engine blasts up to 20,000 rpm, while you accelerate at 1G (same rate as freefalling off a cliff). While this is going on, other cars are less than a couple of feet away in all directions. Then go up through the gears on full throttle 2,3,4,5,6,7 hitting all the shift points at 20,000 rpm. Then brake from 300+ kph less than 200 m from the first corner, decelerating at well over 5G, trying hard not to lock up the brakes or smash into another car.
You'd be scared completely shitless, virtually everyone would. And you haven't even gone round the first corner yet  |
The first 1% of an F1 race is exciting.
It takes quick reactions and good spatial awareness.
But it is not terrifying.
Starts are practised pre-race, over and over again. Racers memorize the track layout. One is well cocooned in a shell. Plenty of protective clothing. Lots of doctors just seconds away.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| easiski wrote: |
Megamum, I just find it annoying. Some of us do really try to help people, and then you get really silly uninformed comments ........  |
Au contraire.
These comments are highly insightful.
Snowboarding is easier than skiing.
Fewer edges. Fewer planks. No poles.
For most, it takes roughly 5 - 15 weeks to become an advanced boarder.
Skiing takes roughly 10 - 30 weeks.
Snowboarding exploded in the 1990s, partly because it is easier than skiing.
No longer does your average Joe have to look like a loser, with sticks and skis flying everywhere as they panic down the slope in a pathetic snowplow.
They just hop on a single tray, and within hours or days they can be backsliding down the piste with an air of poise and dignity.
Further, snowboarders know it is easier.
That is why they dress it up in fancy clothing and fancy buzzwords. To compensate for, or detract from, the less taxing nature of the sport.
To be clear, I am not anti-snowboarding. I love it.
But that does not conceal the fact that snowboarding is easier than skiing
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Fri 2-02-07 22:15; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Whitegold,
Have you even been in a single seater race car?
Have you ever been driven round a track by an F1 driver?
Have you ever raced a car?
Have you ever driven a front engined Dragster?
I have.
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| Spyderman wrote: |
Whitegold,
Have you even been in a single seater race car?
Have you ever been driven round a track by an F1 driver?
Have you ever raced a car?
Have you ever driven a front engined Dragster?
I have. |
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Woopteedoo.
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Whitegold,
Then your previous coments confuse me.
The last one, pumps the blood a lot more than the others, however.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
I just think you have take Whitegold in the way he wants to be portrayed
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As an opinionated berk? He certainly sounds like someone who has never actually tried boarding for himself.
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| Lizzard wrote: |
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I just think you have take Whitegold in the way he wants to be portrayed
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As an opinionated berk? He certainly sounds like someone who has never actually tried boarding for himself. |
You are welcome to challenge my views. That is fine.
But please refrain from such discourteous commentary.
It does not put you in a good light.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Whitegold, you are Tim Brown Nose and I claim my £5. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Look, let's not turn this into some distasteful witch-hunt scenario.
Some people express their views more bluntly than others: that doesn't excuse petty name calling.
I was told by a fairly senior French instructor a couple of years ago that snowboarding was easier to take up than skiing and that in 3 hours he could teach the typical novice to cope with any piste on a snowboard: not something that he could do with a novice skier.
On the one occassion I tried snowboarding, I descended a lengthy blue piste (with a few tumbles) within an hour of first stepping on the board, after no more than a couple of 'hints' from a mate. From that little experience, I got the impression myself that it was indeed far easier to pick up the basics in snowboarding than in skiing.
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| Whitegold wrote: |
The first 1% of an F1 race is exciting.
It takes quick reactions and good spatial awareness.
But it is not terrifying.
Starts are practised pre-race, over and over again. Racers memorize the track layout. One is well cocooned in a shell. Plenty of protective clothing. Lots of doctors just seconds away. |
Hey,, go easy on Whitegold. He's making good sense here.
It's much like a World Cup Downhill. Sure, it takes some basic skill, but the racers get plenty of time to rehearse their start, they've had days to study and practice on the course, the slope is groomed like a table top, they don't even race if the weather gets a little messy  , the race trail is flanked top to bottom with fencing/bags/nets, there are patrol and choppers mere seconds away even though the risk of injury is slim because they all wear helmets.
I mean really, come on, what's to be scared about. You'd have to be a real sook.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Lizzard wrote: |
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I just think you have take Whitegold in the way he wants to be portrayed
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As an opinionated berk? He certainly sounds like someone who has never actually tried boarding for himself. |
He knows more about everything than everyone - what a PITA. After all, I've only been skiing for 50 years, I've only been teaching for 30+ I can't possibly know abything can I? He knows FAR MORE. Someone works with F1 - he knows FAR MORE. Someone's looking at snow out of his kitchen window - HE KNOWS BETTER - THERE IS NONE,
why doesn't he pi** off back where he came. Arrogant g*t.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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admin, Watch learning snowboarders - they fall, and fall and fall. It hurts. They break their wrists. It hurts. balance is much harder because you only have one edge. then they get to be able to sideslip - many never learn to turn... In one lesson a skier can be ploughing (controlling their speed) and turning, using the lift. Ever seen learning snowboarders on a lift? Nuff said. sorry, but it's crazy. Of course I know FAR less than some holiday skiers!
Anyone who thinks driving an F1 car is not scary and brve needs their head examining.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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FastMan,
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I mean really, come on, what's to be scared about. You'd have to be a real sook.
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Michael Schumacher broke both his legs.
Ayrton Senna Sadly lost his life.
Alex Zanardi lost both of his legs.
Don't tell me it's not dangerous and there's no fear involved.
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It's much like a World Cup Downhill. Sure, it takes some basic skill,
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Only basic skill to do a World Cup Downhill. Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha.
The safety measures in place in F1 & Ski racing, are there because it is so dangerous.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Spyderman, hear hear!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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And it's the lack of safety measures in normal life that make certain activities dangerous and scarey for a lot of people. If novice skiers knew they couldn't fall off the side of the piste as they were protected by safety nets, if they knew they wouldn't hurt themselves too much if they fell or crashed (back protectors, body armour, helmets etc), if they knew they weren't going to get T-boned by someone going much faster than them, if they knew there was someone standing there to pick them up each time they fell - then perhaps they wouldn't be fearing for their safety so much and perhaps the initial fears would be more readilly overcome. BUT imagine how the pistes would look with every piste fenced, with speed cameras, with marshalls waiting in attendance every 50 metres. There's already orange fencing all over the place to make things safer.
A balance has to be achieved between between safety and likelihood of a serious accident - what is an acceptable level of risk? We all take risks in skiing and it's one of the things that makes it a sport and makes it exciting. The fact that you're on a slippery slope is a risk in itself and that's something that one takes personal responsibility for. You learn, often with help from a good instructor, how to deal with it and become comfortable on the snow. An unacceptable risk is that of being T-boned by ignorant out of control wannabe ski or board racer, or some lumbering out of control big bloke who is lacking in the spatial awareness department!
If every single risk of personal bodilly injury is taken away by the nanny states we live in, and by resorts being sued by insurance companies on behalf of clients who have broken a finger, then the whole piste will become a mass of nursery slopes. And where would the enjoyment in that be?
Spyderman, Whitegold and all - I don't think comparing the danger of F1 with skiing really has much relevance. After all, F1 drivers are paid 10s of millions of pounds every year to take a risk - that's many times more than most people will earn in an entire lifetime, and more than most people would ever have inb the way of accident and life insurance cover. We all know it's dangerous, but thankfully the extent of a driver's professional training and the safety measures go a long way to mitigate a lot of the risk involved. With recreational skiing on the other hand, punters pay to do it , the risks are less due to slower speeds, some safety measures are in place - but lack of training, irresponsible behaviour, lack of thought for others, being egged on to do something too far above your ability, the fact that we're in mountains where avalanches can happen, the fact that some irrsponsible people will trigger avalanches, and the sheer high number of people who enjoy the sport, all mean that there is a risk and lot of people get injured or killed. I don't know the percentage of skiers injured or killed each year so can't compare it with motor racing (not just F1 as that's only one small group - but all motorsports) - but I wouldn't be surprised if the risks (at least of injury) in each were similar.
Dudes, I've waffled on - sorry!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
But please refrain from such discourteous commentary.
It does not put you in a good light.
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Ask me if I care!
(huge raspberry - sticks thumbs in ears and waggles fingers)
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Watch learning snowboarders - they fall, and fall and fall. It hurts.
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Aha. That would be why I spend all my time at the moment feeling as though someone kicked my head in at Smithy's last night. I knew it couldn't actually be that, since I never go in the place and am in bed by 10pm every night.
Boarding is fun when you get the hang of it though.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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easiski, Have to agree with you re boarders. Two of our have kids swapped from skiing to boarding over the last couple of years and watching their early lessons was enough to convince me its not as easy as some people think. for the first few days they seemed to fall about every 10 yards. After 3 weeks one daughter could 'get down' pretty much anything but on steeps this was acheived by a sliding scrape rather than carved turns. The boarders are also the only ones in the family to have broken a bone, funnily enough it was a wrist!
Watching other boarders on the slopes it does seem to me that falling is more an inherent part of the activity than it is for skiers. Maybe an experienced boarder would comment here, but when playing on 'average' pistes, it is quite unusual for any of our skiers to fall. Maybe once or twice in a week when someone catches an edge. But the boarders on those same pistes, who appear to be of reasonable skill, still appear to fall on their face or bum every couple of runs! Certainly doesn't look easy to me 
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I've got more than enough room for improvement on the skiing to consider acquiring fresh skills (which can't come that easy) boarding.
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I heard that snowboarding is no harder than skateboarding (probably not true), but the last time I tried skateboarding I smashed into a garage door and knocked myself out.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Spyderman, I took Fastman's comments to be ironic, don't you think?
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Spyderman,
I may be wrong but reading FastMan, 's quote I think his tongue was firmly wedged in cheek.
I also think that Whitegold enjoys playing devils advocate rather than being a real troll.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Spyderman wrote: |
FastMan,
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I mean really, come on, what's to be scared about. You'd have to be a real sook.
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Michael Schumacher broke both his legs.
Ayrton Senna Sadly lost his life.
Alex Zanardi lost both of his legs.
Don't tell me it's not dangerous and there's no fear involved.
| Quote: |
It's much like a World Cup Downhill. Sure, it takes some basic skill,
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Only basic skill to do a World Cup Downhill. Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha.
The safety measures in place in F1 & Ski racing, are there because it is so dangerous. |
F1 racers do thousands and thousands and thousands of laps every year. The injury and death rate is relatively not scarily high.
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You know it makes sense.
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Whitegold, If you didn't think you knew everything already, you might actually learn something new. I've worked in F1 as a front line race engineer for 15 years now, so I have a reasonable idea what drivers go through in terms of facing fear etc. Despite your casual dismissal of the fears, there are plenty to be overcome. But just like in other extreme sports they deal with it in a variety of ways. But the main factor in reducing fear is confidence in their own ability, which only comes from years of practice and familiarity. Without this, they would be terrified regardless of the perceived safety levels. This is far removed from a track day in a Formula Ford. That would be like comparing an average recreational skier against a top professional WC downhill racer.
So back to my earlier point, rational fears are normally real justified fears due to lack of confidence in your ability. They are best tackled by practice in situations where you are more comfortable. with gradual exposure to higher levels. You don't learn to face the fear of ski jumping by chucking yourself off the biggest jump. You do it by starting small, gaining skill, experience and familiarity. Then gradually go a little bigger. It's no different in alpine skiing. If a slope terrifies you, it's probably because you realise you haven't got the ability to ski it safely. Ignoring your rational fears is frankly quite dangerous.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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used to also be dead scared of skiing trees
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stuarth, they sound terrifying - imagine a whole forest carving its way towards you and forcing you ever closer to the edge!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| easiski wrote: |
| Lizzard wrote: |
| Quote: |
I just think you have take Whitegold in the way he wants to be portrayed
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As an opinionated berk? He certainly sounds like someone who has never actually tried boarding for himself. |
He knows more about everything than everyone - what a PITA. After all, I've only been skiing for 50 years, I've only been teaching for 30+ I can't possibly know abything can I? He knows FAR MORE. Someone works with F1 - he knows FAR MORE. Someone's looking at snow out of his kitchen window - HE KNOWS BETTER - THERE IS NONE,
why doesn't he pi** off back where he came. Arrogant g*t. |
Again, please feel free to challenge my views. That is fine.
But this is the second time I have had to ask in just a few days.
Please hold off on the aggressive commentary.
It is unnecessary.
It does you no favors.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Whitegold wrote: |
F1 racers do thousands and thousands and thousands of laps every year. The injury and death rate is relatively not scarily high. |
I don't think you have any clue what you're talking about. Most F1 drivers I know have had at least one major accident at some point in their career, often causing medical problems for the rest of their lives (eg detached retina, crushed vertebra etc). But they don't generally fear death or injury during races (or testing for that matter). The fear comes from pushing the limits of their ability to go that little bit faster. One small error can quite easily result in a huge accident, but their rational fears tend to keep them from over-stepping that mark. It's not like racing on your Playstation.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Is it possible that everyone could just agree to differ here please? I started off a fairly valid and now it just seems to have degenerated into a slanging match - As I've pointed out before - no-one will agree with everyone all the time, but I do think providing we all stick to our own arguments that a thread can be read to see where most of the concensus is.
I'm tempted to ask admin to just delete the whole thread altogether.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| Whitegold wrote: |
F1 racers do thousands and thousands and thousands of laps every year. The injury and death rate is relatively not scarily high. |
I don't think you have any clue what you're talking about. Most F1 drivers I know have had at least one major accident at some point in their career, often causing medical problems for the rest of their lives (eg detached retina, crushed vertebra etc). But they don't generally fear death or injury during races (or testing for that matter). The fear comes from pushing the limits of their ability to go that little bit faster. One small error can quite easily result in a huge accident, but their rational fears tend to keep them from over-stepping that mark. It's not like racing on your Playstation. |
It is important not to get swept up in the F1 hype.
The F1 hype is, shrewdly, whipped up, to get bums on seats. And to motivate stakeholders.
F1 has, thankfully, registered zero fatalities in the last 10 years.
Dozens of drivers have covered a grand cumulative total of perhaps up to 1 to 2 million kilometers of racing and testing during that timeframe.
As they say, do the math.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Megamum wrote: |
Is it possible that everyone could just agree to differ here please? I started off a fairly valid and now it just seems to have degenerated into a slanging match - As I've pointed out before - no-one will agree with everyone all the time, but I do think providing we all stick to our own arguments that a thread can be read to see where most of the concensus is.
I'm tempted to ask admin to just delete the whole thread altogether. |
Don't be afraid of an open debate. It is healthy. Some, but not all, persons in this thread have had some excellent viewpoints.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Megamum you're quite right but let's give people a chance to cool themselves down a little before we remove what is, on the whole, a very informative, in depth discussion on a subject close to many people's hearts.
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| If you didn't think you knew everything already, you might actually learn something new. |
I'd like to make the point that comments like this add nothing to the discussion and are in fact argumentitive for the sake of it. Look a t the post without it: it is packed with well presented facts and opinions, inviting debate and discussion by the forum as a whole. However with this phrase included, the post is weakened IMO as it takes on an aspect of personal quarrel.
Please understand, I don't mean to pick on you specifically uktrailmonster, I am simply using this as one example (and IMO not the worst example) of something that has cropped up a number of times in this discussion.
Remember, at snowHeads:
- it is (and must remain) OK to disagree respectfully with anyone. Otherwise we must inevitably end up with a little cabal of experts of varying degrees who define opinion for all and with whom no-one dare disagree. Then there's no point being a forum is there?
- it is not ok to rubbish someone or their opinion: no matter how wrong you think they are. If you wish to 'help them understand better why they are wrong' that's up to you. Otherwise just 'tut' and go make a cup of tea.
btw. Rubbishing someone's opinion and stating a strongly opposing opinion are not the same - if that's not obvious to you: go think about it or start a new topic to discuss it.
- State your views trusting that people will read everyone's opinion and sort out the truth for themselves.
Resorting to personal attacks or worse, name-calling in response to someone stating an opinion that you disagree with won't exactly inspire people's confidence in your viewpoint.
T Bar makes a good point - there is a big difference between trolling and playing devil's advocate in a discussion.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sat 3-02-07 16:11; edited 1 time in total
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Megamum, clearly stuarth has been skiing at Dunsinane!
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Lizzard, well I get it!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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admin, When one states one's views the person in question, doesn't state his - he just contradicts you - whoever you are, whatever your experience. That's not arguing the point or putting his point, that's just being and arrogant ..... People who clearly have expertise in certain areas are, in fact rubbished constantly by this person, regardless. It's that that causes problems, not the deserved insults he receives.
Anyone who actually cares about what they're trying to convey is bound to get upset. Of course the person concerned may not give a sh*t about any of this. May be on lots of forums doing the same thing, and maybe it's funny on others - since I don't frequent other forums I don't know. Honest and heartfelt advice is just contradicted, if you argue or disagree you're contradicted again!
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admin, Actually I thought that was a good piece of advice for Whitegold
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FAQ
) this became less of an issue, so I guess increased ability reduces fear in any given circumstance.
