 Poster: A snowHead
|
| Whitegold wrote: |
It is important not to get swept up in the F1 hype.
The F1 hype is, shrewdly, whipped up, to get bums on seats. And to motivate stakeholders.
F1 has, thankfully, registered zero fatalities in the last 10 years.
Dozens of drivers have covered a grand cumulative total of perhaps up to 1 to 2 million kilometers of racing and testing during that timeframe.
As they say, do the math. |
I don't see what relevance this has to the debate about facing fears? Just because F1 cars are relatively safe, it doesn't mean they're not scary things to drive.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
never once felt any fear while on snow, but i cant say the same about whitewater kayaking. at times that used to scare the shite out of me. the roar of the river as your approaching what you know is a grade 4+ rapid. or the dissapearing horizon of a grade 5 drop off (waterfall). fear though is a good thing (imho), keeps you alert, reminds you that your really alive, well alive up until you went over that waterfall anyway.
i think we train the fears out of ourselves, i kinda agree with whitegold about the f1 thing, how many f1 racers come into that sport from a non racing career, yeah maybe they had fears when they started in carting, formula ford etc, but by the time they reach the pinnacle of f1 there training will be so honed that racing will just be an every day thing. maybe f1 scares us but for the pros it would just be another day at the office. i am a roofer, used to be nervous about roofs but now i dont give it a second thought. the thought of walking along an inch wide ridge tree 40-60ft+ in the air might scare some folk, but for the trained/experienced roofer its just an every day thing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| graeme wrote: |
| maybe they had fears when they started in carting, formula ford etc, but by the time they reach the pinnacle of f1 there training will be so honed that racing will just be an every day thing. maybe f1 scares us but for the pros it would just be another day at the office. i am a roofer, used to be nervous about roofs but now i dont give it a second thought. the thought of walking along an inch wide ridge tree 40-60ft+ in the air might scare some folk, but for the trained/experienced roofer its just an every day thing. |
Absolutely, that's my whole point about fear. The main reason you're not scared of the 60ft drop is because you know what you're doing. It's the same with skiing. An experienced skier is not likely to get scared on an average red run, but a total beginner would be terrified. Extreme sports are different in the sense that participants typically have the ability to block out their rational fears, allowing them to take irrational risks. F1 drivers are full of adrenalin during races, particularly at the start and during pit-stops. Most of what they do in the car is subconscious, well outside of their rational thinking.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| graeme wrote: |
| .......maybe they had fears when they started in carting, formula ford etc, but by the time they reach the pinnacle of f1 there training will be so honed that racing will just be an every day thing. |
I think you'll find that the drivers beg to differ.
In most sports, and at most levels, there is always a fear before the green light/whistle/bell. Once the sport starts then the training will kick in, but just before that it's brown adrenaline time for us all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
marc gledhill, sorry marc i disagree here, the sport does not start when the green light illuminates. the f1 circuit to these people is about the full time at each venue, the actual race is only a small part of this (very important part though...lol). they basically live around the f1 lifestyle, and as such there training/experience will incorporate everything associated with this, wether it be practice, qualifying, press comitments, partying, etc etc. why would a driver sit around fearing/worrying about what may or may not happen, they are toooooo proffesional for that, if they did then surely they would take those fears onto the grid and into the race. a bit like me worrying about being on a roof, slipping and hurting myself, if i think about it then it could happen. sorry but that does not happen, wether i block fears out i cant say, all i know is that i need to concentrate on the actual job at hand, not fears of what may happen, if something did happen then it would be time to think about it......lol
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
admin, Interesting question isn't it, when is a post a 'troll' and when is it a piece of devils advocacy? Is someone who constantly plays devils advocate helping to stimulate lively debate, or trolling for a bite?
I guess we all have our own views on what is reasonable, and since you're the boss, yours carry the most weight 
Personally my sympathies lie with those whose posts are useful and amusing (or best of all both!). Playing devils advocate is all too easy and doesn't require much knowledge or experience, just a stubborn willingness to contradict. All IM (very) HO of course 
uktrailmonster, So did I (think the advice was good, I mean) 
Megamum, No deletions necessary (again IMHO) the expletives haven't really started flying - yet 
Whitegold, Ok , sorry about the Nose part  (still claim my fiver though) 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
stuarth,
| Quote: |
When skiing tricky spots I find that I focus very quickly on all the things that could possibly happen if things go wrong no matter how unlikely.
Skiing a 50 degree slope is not a problem, but if there are rocks to hit at the bottom, no matter how small the chance of actually hitting them is, I have problems. |
I had the same problem as this the firts couple of times skiing tricky terrain, and also the first few times trusting myself to go fast downhill in the woods on my bike. Then one day as I was driving along in the car I saw a pothole in the road. I didn't want to hit it so I kept an eye on where it was and drove straight into it. And once when I was driving excessively fast, I wanted to get a bend just right, focussed on the apex which was, unfortunately, a kerb, and hit it resulting in me spinning the car and writing it off. It was then that it dawned on me that you need to look at the route you want to take. The apex I went for should have been on the road next to the kerb, not the kerb itself.
It then dawned on me that you fear something, look at it, focus on it and then come desperately close to hitting it. Now, I focus not on what I might hit, but instead on the nice easy route between the things that I might hit. It works well. Don't consciously try and put the dangerous bits out of your mind, as that focusses your mind on them more. Instead, focus on the safe bits then you get through easily.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Sat 3-02-07 19:13; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Kramer wrote: |
| Spyderman, I took Fastman's comments to be ironic, don't you think? |
| T Bar wrote: |
Spyderman,
I may be wrong but reading FastMan, 's quote I think his tongue was firmly wedged in cheek.
I also think that Whitegold enjoys playing devils advocate rather than being a real troll. |
Kramer, "T Bar", good catch. Being new here perhaps it was too early to expect people to pick up on it.
As to Whitegold,,, he's just pulling your chain, guys. He can only lead you around the room by it if you keep clinging steadfast to the opposite end.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
graeme, Does your heart race and adrenalin flood through your body when you're up on that roof? Because that's what happens to F1 drivers at the start of every race. It's a very highly stressed situation. We sometimes monitor their heart rate and they certainly do not stay calm and relaxed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
uktrailmonster, I find in stressfull situations I can often cope. It's the aftermarth where I have problems. Take dealing with a nasty RTA by yourself. I have the leadership skills to do a more than adequate of organising things, people and bystanders, but after I get home, I think it must the adrenelin, cuts lose in my system and I shake like a leaf. I've often wondered if it's the body preparing for 'flight' but not having then to do with the adrenelin in terms of powering running muscles etc. The same thing happened on that 12' gantry - Once I was in the water the adrenelin rush left me totally incapable of doing anything to keep myself afloat. I was like it to some extent the first time I got down the blue slope from the top, but then some of the adrenelin had been used up in the exercise needed to get down.
Is it adrenelin? and does anyone recognise this effect or am I unique in reacting like this.
P.S. I'm happier with how this is going now - thanks everyone - please all feel you can still contribute if you wish - I'm just not overly keen on conflict esp. if I've caused it!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Megamum, you've not caused any conflict! Any conflict on this thread has been incidental. It's a very interesting subject that you've raised.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I like whitegold. His/her posts are often alternative, but rarely insulting, rude or nasty.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
laundryman,
easyski, whitegold hope you are still with us.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Just to get back on topic a little bit....
A tip which someone gave me a few seasons ago which does seem to help it that when you get into a stressful situation on skis, remember to breathe... Seems a funny thing to say, but I find if I deliberately breathe out as I hit ice I can angulate and control better, and going through dodgy snow concentrating on regular breathing helps with rhythm. another thing from a texan ski instructor was to start any cornice/lip into a steep pitch with your skis straight down the hill because then you had already done half your first turn. Works for me.
whitegold yes I am sure F1 is scary, but I agree with you it as boring as hell. I think the same applies to downhill racing. I agree with FtS. Nice to have a different opinion around.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
stoatsbrother, good point I reckon about the breathing: at the bottom of something daunting, I often wonder if I'm out of breath through effort or through neglecting to breathe at all!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
stoatsbrother,
| Quote: |
| another thing from a texan ski instructor was to start any cornice/lip into a steep pitch with your skis straight down the hill because then you had already done half your first turn. |
That definitely makes sense - good tip. And it also means that you've often cleared the very steepest by the time you complete the second half of the turn, rather than skiing across the slope to start with and worrying about initiating the first turn on the steepest pitch.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Jammygal, welcome to snowHeads
Good to hear you enjoyed yourself and got rid of the fear!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Jammygal, even after 65 weeks of skiing, my vertigo fear sometimes escapes the box and reduces me to a quivering wreck!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
welcome Jammygal,
I dont like heights, edges (not even high ones !!) or flying.
But there is something about the beauty of the mountains and the enjoyment of skiing/boarding that makes all those fears go away !
(Well, except for the plane that needs a little extra medication & a stiff drink ) but nothing would stop me from my winter hols !
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Megamum wrote: |
Is it adrenelin? and does anyone recognise this effect or am I unique in reacting like this.
|
From my own experience, I would say it is. In a past job I have been in a number of situations where I have had an Adrenalin rush. I always felt a bit shaky and washed out after the incident was over.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
graeme, Does your heart race and adrenalin flood through your body when you're up on that roof? Because that's what happens to F1 drivers at the start of every race. It's a very highly stressed situation. We sometimes monitor their heart rate and they certainly do not stay calm and relaxed. Sat Feb 03, 07 18:18
|
but that does not mean this sensation is fear, excitement maybe
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Perhaps in addition to monitoring heart rate of F1 drivers, it would be worth measuring methane levels in the cockpit to try and get a handle on whether the increased heart rate is due to excitement or fear.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
stuarth,
Agree, I'd always go in at an angle
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| petemillis wrote: |
| Perhaps in addition to monitoring heart rate of F1 drivers, it would be worth measuring methane levels in the cockpit to try and get a handle on whether the increased heart rate is due to excitement or fear. |
You volunteering for that job? 
I don't how this topic turned to F1 as some sort of comparison, but I don't think it's that useful, F1 drivers are just like elite athletes in every other sport, they are not normal human beings. The fact that they've made it as F1 drivers probably means that their response to fear is different from all the people who didn't.
As much as it's nice to fantasise that 'I could have a been an F1 driver if only I'd been given a chance, they're no different from me', the reality tells a different story.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
stuarth,
| Quote: |
| Errr, I always got told where possible it was better to launch cornices onto steeps at an angle (unless it was for a film shoot! wink ), that way you can control your speed more easily on landing. |
Ahh. I wasn't thinking drop-offs. I had the sort of thing whare you're just going into a really steep pitch from a flat bit at the top, like when a black pops off the side of another piste. Now if it was off an edge then I agree, at an angle might be more controllable for us who aren't making films!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| zebedee wrote: |
I don't how this topic turned to F1 as some sort of comparison, but I don't think it's that useful, F1 drivers are just like elite athletes in every other sport, they are not normal human beings. The fact that they've made it as F1 drivers probably means that their response to fear is different from all the people who didn't.
As much as it's nice to fantasise that 'I could have a been an F1 driver if only I'd been given a chance, they're no different from me', the reality tells a different story. |
I'm afraid it was me that first mentioned F1, due to my experience working with drivers. I was just trying to make the point that it's generally not a good idea to block out your rational fears, like F1 drivers (and other extreme sports people) naturally do. As you say, they are not "normal" people and are capable of taking risks far beyond what most people would naturally baulk at. But in order to do that "safely", they have to have the necessary skills to match!
In the real world of recreational skiing, most fears (not including phobias like vertigo) are just a rational manifestation of lack of confidence in your ability. A good instructor should be able to judge whether someone's fears are rational (i.e justified because they really haven't got the ability to tackle the "scary" slope) or irrational (i.e. they have got the ability, but just lack confidence)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
Megamum, I'm not qualified to answer your question about adrenalin, but I suspect that is the main cause. It's almost certainly adrenalin that increases your strength and awareness in stressful situations and it certainly does make you feel drained afterwards. But I'm not sure it's adrenalin that causes people to literally "freeze with fear".
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| Megamum, I'm not qualified to answer your question about adrenalin, but I suspect that is the main cause. It's almost certainly adrenalin that increases your strength and awareness in stressful situations and it certainly does make you feel drained afterwards. But I'm not sure it's adrenalin that causes people to literally "freeze with fear". |
It is. Generally it's an overload of Adrenaliine in people who aren't used to dealing with it that causes the paralysis with fear.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
More specifically it's probably an evolved response to danger. First thing you do is stay very still, and then prepare to run away very quickly from whatever it is that is scaring you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
uktrailmonster, fair point, i think it got a bit diverted along the way 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| graeme wrote: |
but that does not mean this sensation is fear, excitement maybe |
It's neither really, extremely high stress would be a better description, which comes from a combination of fear, excitement, worry, sensory overload etc. As several people have mentioned already, F1 can be deadly boring on TV, but not usually for the guy in the car! All F1 drivers love driving, but none of them regard it as simple fun, in the same way you might consider indoor karting as fun. But this is all digressing from the main discussion here.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
I remember being scared stiff on my first red run. It felt like a cliff with snow smeared on it. I was almost too scared to turn so made long trips from one side of the slope to the other to try to minimise the number of turns. I very quickly learned that this was so wrong! I got into a rhythm of turning so that as I finished one turn I started the next. This was much better and kept my mind occupied so I didn't have time to be scared.
I've had some scary moments paragliding....long straight glides, high up with no turbulence can be really scary because I find my mind starts to think about the risks. When flying in more challenging conditions with a bit of turbulence and some thermals to hang onto my mind is busy enough not to have time to worry about scary stuff.
I hope that makes sense.
I also hope there aren't any psychologists reading this.... 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
and I can seriously say I had the fear big time!!!!!
