 Poster: A snowHead
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| Arno wrote: |
I know plenty of people who earn their turns and are useless skiers |
fair point. suppose a simple rating system is fundementally flawed.
I was rubbish at powder and trees before this season, yet could race (even downhill) pretty reasonably.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I was originally just pushing back a bit because although the 1-10 scale is flawed its better than some of the alternatives- ask a bunch of alpha male types how good a skier they are:
Intermediate (had 1 week's holiday before)
Advanced (Got a gold badge on that week's ski holiday)
Expert (Been skiing twice before and have read a magazine).
I'd be fairly confident going into S+R that I'd know more about a lot of the kit than most staff but put me in SZK's shop & the answer might well be different. That is why I'd rather ask resort based staff their view because they ski the stuff day in day out.
I also agree with JT that you could get far too wrapped up in artificial grading & judgmental points about style which can be massively subjective without necessarily being able to articulate what the customer might need any better.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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fatbob, fair enough, but I was more interested in suggestions to train the -customer- to articulate irrespective of the clerk.
And whether an explicit Strengths and Weaknesses statement by an instructor would be useful. Especially written on a slip of paper so the customer needn't reinterpret.
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brian
brian
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JT, give us a clue 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| paulhothersall wrote: |
veeeight On another topic, have you got the instructor wage scale for whistler for last year? Mine is a couple of years out of date, and I am looking at waht to do for my work permit........ I alsready have a oaching job lined up, but that is not fulltime. |
Send me your email via PM and I'll email it to you.
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Just as an aside - as with so many things on a mountain, a good dose of caution is to be recommended. I'm a pretty competent skier and on the S&R 1 - 10 I could, on different days, rate myself anywhere between a 4 and an 8.
When talking to Guides / Instructors I tend to err on the side of caution and assume that I will be tired sooner and that the conditions will deteriorate, in the same way that you might assume that a small cliff drops on to rock rather than lost of lovely powder until you've thoroughly checked the terrain.
Actually, this approach goes for most things in life: under promise and over deliver is always much more enjoyable for both parties than over promising and under delivering.
Next time I'm on snow I might say I've never skied before 
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| zammo wrote: |
| Next time I'm on snow I might say I've never skied before |
I used to do that in Saalbach, but that was more to do with the instructors that the beginners got, compared to the haggard old men that the intermediates had...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Have you noticed how none of the scales attempts to cater for "Ski's upside down" or "lands hard switch off of ramp" dunno if thats telling me something here.
Perhaps have a 1-10 nutter rating for us freestylers.
A freind of mine said that Freestyle is just an excuse for bad skiing - like to see him go down the half pipe!!!!
Shall be in the park again this crimbo over in Courchevel!
A
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adam_button, I took a snowmobile down a half pipe.
I consider that gives me an 11 on your nutter rating !!! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Odin, I took a Renault Twingo up a red run once. Where does that leave me (other than stuck in a Renault Twingo up a red run...)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I was going to do a joke about taking a girl up the Khyber Pass, but I won't.
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Anyway, haven't we had this conversation before?
If you need the scale you're not nearly as high up it as you either want or would like to be. And clearly if you're waiting on your next consignment of race skis, by the half dozen, you don't need the scale.
But I suppose the shops who publish these are trying to give customers some sort of scale on which to gauge themselves. Does sort of seem a little bizarre when you consider they apply them to race skis, or am I being simplistic?
Anyone got any idea how to drive a Twingo back down a steep snow covered slope?
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You know it makes sense.
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
| Anyone got any idea how to drive a Twingo back down a steep snow covered slope? |
In reverse.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Odin, logarithmic scale: 11 is for bobsled run skaters.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| JT wrote: |
| You can disappear up you own backside with all this, its only a guide, talk to the shop/techs and see if you can get common ground. Better still, if in resort, try a few. These guides point you in the right direction, they shouldn't pick the ski for you..what do you want...blood ...??? |
I agree, JT, and congratulations on the England captaincy by the way.
Once you get into details, you may find that some people are, say, an 8 when carving on groomed snow, but a 6 off-piste. Or vice versa. It is just a rough guide. And once you get up to around the 10 mark, there is no need for further levels because there already are other measurement schemes in place: instructor or mountain guide qualifications, FIS points or national ski association points, NASTAR (US) or WISBI (Austria). For freestylers: what's your best trick? Or how many rotations?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Ford wrote: |
what about, Level 16 lives in the Mountains only skis in perfect conditions where and when 'serious' skiing is practised  |
A fair point, but it could also be said that the true indication of a strong off-piste skier is one who can ski in less-than-perfect conditions and make them look perfect. And that takes practice...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Another point:
I can imagine that patrollers, and ski team coaches and technicians, might respond with something along the lines of: "There are pretty skiers, and strong skiers. You might think you're a good skier, but how do you look skiing through steep cruddy bumps carrying two 100-pound bundles of poles - or four pairs of DH skis, two on each shoulder?"
There are many different ways to measure skiing ability. In the end, the only way to do it in detail is probably with a verbal description rather than a numerical level.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Martin Bell, or, indeed...how do you look (as a patroller):
- bringing a suspected spinally injured skier in a sled down 5km of bumpy reds and busy blues
- while keeping said sled suspended off the ground to minimise potential additional injury
- with your gloves stuffed down behind said patients back for lumbar stability
- in -5 C snow & hail...
Pretty awesome, I would submit! (thankfully no permanent or serious harm done but I was the patient in question).
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 14-08-06 22:45; edited 1 time in total
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| David Murdoch wrote: |
| Anyone got any idea how to drive a Twingo back down a steep snow covered slope? |
In reverse. |
Thanks. Now I'm REALLY stuck. Any other bright ideas?
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David Murdoch, wait for the thaw. In the mean time, you'll be a mogul.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If it's parked nose up the slope it would be just the right shape for a ramp as well.
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
| But I suppose the shops who publish these are trying to give customers some sort of scale on which to gauge themselves. Does sort of seem a little bizarre when you consider they apply them to race skis, or am I being simplistic? |
I thought the S&R scale was just so you had an idea what level of boots and skis to buy so you didn't end up with boots way too stiff ditto skis? I note on a lot of ski tests they give an ideal skier level. For example you wouldn't put a beginner on say, Rossi B2s but you would put an intermediate. I'm not sure the scale is for judging how good you are compared to skier X or Y but could obviously be used that way although I'm not sure to what end.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Martin Bell wrote: |
Once you get into details, you may find that some people are, say, an 8 when carving on groomed snow, but a 6 off-piste. Or vice versa. It is just a rough guide. And once you get up to around the 10 mark, there is no need for further levels because there already are other measurement schemes in place: instructor or mountain guide qualifications, FIS points or national ski association points, NASTAR (US) or WISBI (Austria). For freestylers: what's your best trick? Or how many rotations? |
I think you are pretty much there Martin
I would like to say add that maybe a descriptive element of the ski re skier style/build to be fully useful.
Eg The high end Salomon skis (none race) are typically more favored by lighter, less agressive skiers, and say something like a atomic are stiffer/heavier and take more effort. Volkls top end are similar, but their lower end are more easy going. Yes it is a generalisation, but then without testing a whole bunch of skis it does let you narrow down the choices.
Basically in the ski description, don't have a bunch of meaningless numbers, have a relative description of what ski is like compared to the others in the class. (yes I know the full on ski tests have some of this in there). this description could include what sort of terrain and level of effort, and an indication of skier weight or difference in going longer or shorter makes to the overall performance. This is needed as some manufactuers vary the ski accross a specific model. Ir the radius changes, or the sidecut does, or say the longer ski may have a different flex (some "softer" for a longer ski with same feel, some a stiffer feel as more material with same flex)
I think one of the issues is the difference between personal preference for skis feeling, and also what the ski is for. Most one trick ponies, like powder or high end race skis are realativly easy to explain the feel and how suited they are to a certain need. The middle ground for one ski fits all is the single hardest thing, and unfortunatly the one thing the normal skier is after!
The rating of say a ski is suited 25% for piste, 75% off piste is actually a good idea, as more skis are sold as the "ultimate - only need one pair - everthing ski". ie the traditional ski type breakdown is less relevent now. At the high end it is still there, but then how many2 week a year skiers have a 4+ pair quiver?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| David Murdoch wrote: |
| Anyone got any idea how to drive a Twingo back down a steep snow covered slope? |
In reverse. |
Thanks. Now I'm REALLY stuck. Any other bright ideas? |
Weigh it down to improve traction and grip. Drive it out forwards if poss. I assume chains're already on?
If that fails you could always put it in the little bag it came in and carry it down. 
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You know it makes sense.
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
| paulhothersall wrote: |
| 25% for piste, 75% off piste |
Does this mean that the ski is 75% less good on piste than a 100% piste ski and 25% less good off piste than a pure "off piste" ski (whatever that is). In which case too much of a compromise in my book as surely, if you're skiing 25% on piste and 75% off piste it's only 37.5% as good than a 100% excellent ski in a particular condition, sometimes, maybe?
((I've never seen skis that are good or bad, just good or bad skiers...  )) |
It also has to do with how people judge their amount of time "off piste", and what they consider "off piste".
I've heard people say they spend 50% off piste. Then I watch them ski. Maybe 1 run a day is off piste, but it does take almost 50% of their time to get down it! (unfortunately, memory and ego play tricks). You also get the guy who goes 1 metre past the piste marker poles, and considers himself an off-piste skier.
Where does that stack up against someone like you (or whoever) who goes for powder that a couple of metres deep, hikes to get it, and can ski it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I'm with Fenlandskier - leave the twingo there and we can go over it
A
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Poster: A snowHead
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Wear The Fox Hat, I have no idea...
adam_button, It's a pale green one. If you scratch it, you pay the CDW...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Is it still stuck there David Murdoch?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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FenlandSkier, yours to find out, mine to keep snow covered...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I do have a certain pedigree when it comes to stuck cars and ski resorts, although mine went no further than the car park without a VDI towtruck.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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FAQ
