 Poster: A snowHead
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I tend to fast until 14:00 daily which means it's not advisable to take ibuprofen in the morning. I was thinking I could use a gel instead, any recommendations?
I'm interested in a combined ibuprofen warming/cooling gel or anything anyone thinks is good.
I'm not treating a specific injury.
It would be to treat light muscle fatigue soreness on days following heavy exercise i.e. the day after a powder day 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I use gel now occasionally, maybe for DOMS, or if I tweak something. You can't, I think, buy it in Canada, but it's available over the counter in UK. There are branded and generic versions; I try to use generic, it's all the same as far as I can tell. The tubes come with instructions to wash it off your hands, and it definitely has active ingredients - you can feel it working. I like tubes which are small enough to fit in the plastic bag to keep the airport security people happy.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Any reason ibuprofen?
There are lots of other stuff for muscle soreness. Hemp based, Tiger balm, etc.
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@phil_w, Thanks it would be mainly for DOMS I guess. I'll check out generic stuff.
@Gored, It's not a firm requirement I'm happy to try other things.
I have found that Ibuprofen pills are very effective for me but I can't take them in the morning while fasting which is where I am coming from.
I'm open to trying other options though.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I guess there may be subtle differences between different ibuprofen gel formulations but I'd be surprised if they were more than minimal.
But I could believe different people respond differently to ibuprofen versus diclofenac. Both are non-steroidal anti-inflammatories and, I understand, therefore work in basically the same way. But they are different drugs and so you might notice a difference? So perhaps experiment along that dimension too? Diclofenac gel is marketed as Volatarol in the UK
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Someone had to ask
"I tend to fast until 14:00 daily" why
I would think that's a recipe for muscle soreness on a day with high amounts of excretion?
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 28-10-24 12:27; edited 1 time in total
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| Garfield wrote: |
Someone had to ask
"I tend to fast until 14:00 daily" why
I would think that's a recipe for muscle soreness on a day with high amounts of excretion? |
Maybe avoid curries if experiencing high amounts of excretion..... 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I just had a look in my snowboarding drawer and I have two old partly used tubes. One Tesco branded, the other Sainsbury. Both 5% w/w, whatever that means. Both odourless, clear, not particularly horrid, and identical. I once bought some over the counter in Austria which was branded but it was the same. I'm sure you can pay more and get smelly stuff.
With the pills, you could always neck a few later in the day anyway, it acts pretty quickly and the D bit means you have time for that. I once rode with a load of heart surgeons who were handing around bowls of what I assumed were party drugs after riding... turned out it was just Ibuprofen.
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TBH the gels are pretty useless in my experience compared to tablets. Volterol maybe a bit more effective than prufen gel...
Your other option is to have a proton pump inhibitor to reduce chance of gastro problems and keep popping the ibruprofen pills if they are effective. The inhibitors are available over the counter (no script) I think in the UK. Talk to you pharmacist.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Henwc, Lansoprazole to protect the stomach if taking ibuprofen regularly, to help prevent stomach and intestinal ulcers?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@MHskier,
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The inhibitors are available over the counter (no script) I think in the UK.
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In UK PPIs, eg Lansoprazole, are only available on prescription.
Although they offer benefits, for example when regularly taking Ibuprofen, Naproxen, etc, long term use of PPIs also comes with potential side effects.
So it's a case of weighing up the pros and cons of each course of action, in the context of how serious and debilitating the condition is that you're trying to treat.
Personally I have a big bowl of porridge first thing.
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I find the higher strength Voltarol (Diclofenac) gel quite good.
Otherwise get youself in a sauna, followed by cold shower/ swim at the end of the day.
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You know it makes sense.
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| gendal wrote: |
I guess there may be subtle differences between different ibuprofen gel formulations but I'd be surprised if they were more than minimal.
But I could believe different people respond differently to ibuprofen versus diclofenac. Both are non-steroidal anti-inflammatories and, I understand, therefore work in basically the same way. But they are different drugs and so you might notice a difference? So perhaps experiment along that dimension too? Diclofenac gel is marketed as Volatarol in the UK |
If the PL numbers are the same, they are the same exactly formulation , just not branded and out of patent
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/pl-number-on-medication-packets_uk_591c5fbce4b041db8965e52d
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks all,
I think the general consensus is that the gels are inferior to pills but might help. No strong preference for different brands/features/flavours etc.
I don't take ibuprofen regularly, perhaps a pack to two a year so I'm not too concerned about stomach ulcers.
The reason for the fasting is worth a whole other thread and would no doubt elicit various responses from "dangerous fad" to "lifesaving miracle cure". It seems to work for me for general health and managing weight so I'll be sticking to it for now. I'm quite relaxed about it so if I'm on a ski trip with breakfast included I'll eat it. Thinking it over all my trips booked next year fall into this category so I'll be ok on when I'm away skiing at least.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Another shout for volterol! I just had a swollen knuckle, had cuprofen tablets for 3 days, got worse if anything. Chemist recommended voltarol, almost immediate relief, now after a week, still some swelling but much reduced and much more comfortable pain wise, still don't have full movement though. was impressed it actually worked at all.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Oceanfalls wrote: |
How about taking ibuprofen other than the oral route? Just think of the French fondness for taking meds via another orifice  : . My orthopaedic surgeon told me 'don't bother' with topical ibuprofen gel other than the feel good factor of a mini-massage. btw I'm a long-term user of ibuprofen pills, cbd etc. Best of luck. |
I guess it would be closer to lower back pain so might help haha.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I find Voltarol brilliant for localised muscle ache more specifically thigh burn on days 2 and 3 skiing when my technique hasn't quite recovered to the previous seasons standard.  Also good for lower back pain.
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I have been told by numerous doctors that topical Ibuprofen is generally a waste of time. The amount of active ingredient that actually gets absorbed through the skin is tiny too small to do anything, tablets are by far the best option. However I cant really take Ibuprofen tablets these days (annoying as I always found it the best option for pain / inflammation relief) as I take Clopidogrel which significantly increases the possibility of digestive issues. However I have arthritis in my hands (no sign anywhere else) and my hand consultant has told me that it does work on hands as the skin is much thinner than in other places and used in moderation that way its not an issue in relation to the Clopidogrel. It certainly does seem to have some effect and far cheaper than steroid injections! As far as I can see the 10% stuff is all the same just buy the cheapest generic.
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Thanks all, I'll get a tube of generic and a Volterol and do a comparison.
For information this thread was brought on by me doing a pretty long walk yesterday and waking up with a bit more soreness than usual. I can handle it but it would be nice to have something to take the edge off. Not long until the fast ends and I can pop a couple of standard pills.
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Use paracetamol tablets instead, 1000mg every 4-6 hours
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
I'm quite relaxed about it so if I'm on a ski trip with breakfast included I'll eat it.
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Definitely check this with a medical professional, but from what I understand you only need something small like a glass of milk or slice of toast with an ibuprofen. As you are relaxed about the fasting (and the prevailing scientific view seems to be the vast majority- if not all - benefits of intermittent fasting are overall kcal restriction rather than the actual fasting itself) I don't see why you wouldn't just do that.
Although, I think there are two bigger questions:
1. Why are you taking ibuprofen for general and light soreness? Some inflammation is normal and probably beneficial in the long term. Take away the inflammation and you also decrease the adaptation, for which inflammation is a trigger. It seems massively overkill.
2. Why not fix the cause directly? Improve your strength and fitness a bit and you won't get particularly sore following a day's skiing (where gravity is doing the heavy lifting).
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
2. Why not fix the cause directly? Improve your strength and fitness a bit and you won't get particularly sore following a day's skiing (where gravity is doing the heavy lifting). |
Ski lifts do it for me, haven't skinned for a while.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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What @boarder2020, says. Plus ibuprofen is pretty evil stuff best avoided rather than used regularly.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@boarder2020, Thanks for your help. Yep the main benefit from fasting for me is the weight control, if I eat all my calories between 14:00 and 22:00 then there is only limited time for me to snack and overeat.
I guess I haven't been as clear as I could be. The ibuprofen isn't intended for regular use. It's for when I do an unusual amount of exercise based on what I usually do. For example on Sunday I did a country walk that was approximately double the longest I have done in the past. This left me sore the day after. I could have used something the following morning to take the edge off.
On the fitness side I'm currently spending about as much time exercising as I can fit into my life due to family commitments. There are other sports I focus on more than skiing so it's unlikely my fitness will ever be ski specific. I'm realistic enough to know that if I really push it and ski 8 hours straight in challenging conditions there is going to be a bit of soreness the next day.
@adithorp, Agreed on the ibuprofen not being great, that's why I limit it to a couple of packs a year.
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| Quote: |
I could have used something the following morning to take the edge off.
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Again, a bit of soreness is normal. Why the need to "take the edge off"? It's just the bodies way of adapting. Ironically using ibuprofen every time you feel a little bit sore may well increase the likelihood of feeling a bit sore the next time you do something.
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There are other sports I focus on more than skiing so it's unlikely my fitness will ever be ski specific.
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99% of people are not skiing outside winter, yet the majority with decent fitness aren't having to plan on using ibuprofen in advance. General fitness should be enough to not have particularly bad doms following a day downhill skiing. Maybe worth getting your technique looked at, perhaps you are unnecessarily stressing certain muscles.
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You know it makes sense.
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Thanks for the help, all good points.
I agree that a manageable amount of soreness is desirable, I certainly don't use pain killers every time I feel a bit sore. I tend to push myself in the gym and 99% of the time I embrace the soreness the day after. Here I'm talking about the rare times I do an exceptional amount of exercise (for me) and the it starts impacting my ability to concentrate the next day or impacts my sleep.
I'm certain my technique can improve and that would help. I'd never get DOMS after skiing marked runs all day but my overall technique is not strong enough on steeps, moguls or variable off piste and I am working on this (see https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=170436 ).
The question about the gel is connected to this because I expect that if I pushed my limits on a full day off piste with an instructor the failings in my technique would cause me to be more tired than usual. I can't say if this would cause me major problems the next day or not but I'd like to be prepared. Perhaps I'm overthinking a bit.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Tue 29-10-24 14:25; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The fact that limited fasting whilst doing exercise is counter productive aside (the body will limit its calorie burn rate as its not being fuelled properly, whereas if you give it a sensible breakfast, it work much better ad burn more calories through the day......)
Good old deep heat is great for muscle soreness and if you do want some ibuprofen in there "Deep Relief" ('oo-er Mrs' name aside) is very good, has ibuprofen and levomenthol in it.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
Perhaps I'm overthinking a bit.
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I think so. If it's just the odd occasion and you feel that you really do need it the solution is probably just to take it in the morning with a slice of toast. It's not going to kill your diet or massively change total kcal intake for the day.
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The fact that limited fasting whilst doing exercise is counter productive aside (the body will limit its calorie burn rate as its not being fuelled properly, whereas if you give it a sensible breakfast, it work much better ad burn more calories through the day......)
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Fasting doesn't affect BMR (assuming like for like total daily kcal intake), you won't burn significantly more or less kcal by skipping breakfast. Similarly the cost demands of exercise stay the same - cycling at 200watts requires the same kcal demands regardless of when your last meal was. It may effect the substrate utilisation ratio - but not really relevant to the current discussion.
Fasting at best doesn't effect performance - shorter and less intense workouts likely to be least effected. It can definitely diminish performance for longer or more intense workouts.
The studies suggest what you consume prior to exercise has little effect on risk of DOMs. However, consuming carbs during and after is beneficial to recovery - which may mean less soreness.
Fasting is almost certainly not ideal if exercise training/performance is a goal. However, for many people it is a sustainable strategy to limit daily kcal intake. The benefits of decreased kcal intake will outweigh the small decreases in performance for most normal people.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@boarder2020, Thanks, my experience is consistent with what you say about fasting.
I tend to break it into two categories for my day to day life:
Training day - absolute performance level isn't really too important so I fast
Match day (any day I am outcome orientated) - I am maximising performance so I don't fast but try to fuel in an appropriate way for the exercise
I guess I should just be sensible and view every day on the snow as a 'match day' which would make the approach clear.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I’d emphasise the comment to talk to a medic and add some sessions with a qualified osteopath. It took me some time to get to a regime tailored specifically to me. In my case this is a set of morning back exercises, augmented when skiing or hiking, plus Neurophen+ (Ibruprofen + codeine) and Omeprazole (proton-pump inhibitor against Ibruprofen complications). And always taking the Neurophen+ with some food.
But this is me. A friend of mine has similar back problems but a different suite of exercises and drugs. So it’s all very specific to the individual.
Note that codeine is metabolised into morphine, hence the recommendation not to take it for more than 3 days, as it’s potentially addictive.
I tried the gels but they had absolutely no effect at all. Ibruprofen works well, but for me (and again, I emphasis this may be specific to me) the added codeine work much better.
Finally be careful about any other stuff you might take at the same time. Even regular over the counter stuff for, say, a cold or mild ‘flu can react with these sort of things so again, always good to ask the advice of a pharmacist. I recently discovered, for example, that they’ve changed the formulation of LemSip recently and the new ingredient has serious side-effects when taken with one of the drugs I have to take daily for another condition. So always worth reading the notes provided with anything you take.
I also used to be fairly scathing about people who had a gym personal trainer. But I am now a convert - at least to having a few sessions where they build a tailored set of exercises designed for your particular activity (in my case skiing and hiking). An then the odd refresher ahead of a holiday. Between my personal trainer, osteopath and doctor I’d say my situation has improved a lot. Much of what they recommend overlaps and complements their individual contributions. I now actually take a lot less medication for muscular pain than I used to.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Turmeric 10,000+ is a great anti inflammatory btw
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