Hi All sorry for the long post probably put in too many details.
I would like to improve my off piste skiing so that I can get the most out of my time on the mountain. I am interested in getting to the point where I have the technique nailed in a bit so off piste skiing is more fun and relaxing.
I am a pretty decent on piste skier and I can handle pretty much everything on piste (excluding serious mogul runs) without having to think too heavily about technique, this make it both fun, relaxing and not tiring.
I am a much worse off piste, I would say that I am a significantly worse off piste skier than the average for someone with my level of ability on piste.
I have had some off piste lessons because it tends to become a focus for the instructor once you reach a certain level, i.e. they want to hit the powder or un-pisted runs. This means I know the technique but still have to consciously focus on it to get it to work.
Fitness wise I have no problems and my weekly UK exercise program delivers me in good shape for fairly heavy skiing.
It seems a next step is to go to a marked un-pisted area and lap it until I really start getting the feel for the technique. This would be somewhere like the run 42 under the E5 cable car in Ischgl.
Is this a sensible next step or is there a risk will I develop a load of bad habits that make things worse?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Don't be fooled - there is no specific off-piste "technique". All of the 'tools' you need for off-piste skiing can be learned and practiced on-piste and form part of the overall 'toolset'.
I've known a lot of skiers (including myself back in the day) that think they're pretty poo-poo hot on piste, skiing fast and in control most of the time, but in reality they're only using a very few tools to do so. It's these that struggle off piste 'cos the tools they do know well aren't generally the ones that work best in soft snow, breakable crust or chopped-up crud. This may or may not also apply to you, of course -
I'd suggest just venturing more and more into the side piste areas next to and between groomed runs. This puts a lot less pressure on you if the snow is shít and/or you find yourself floundering, when you can just cut back to the piste, think about what went wrong, try to practice on the piste what you think you should have been doing, then try again.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Chaletbeauroc, Thanks, the reason I went with 'decent" as a description of my piste skiing was an attempt to say something less than actually 'good' if that makes sense?
I take the point about it employing varying elements of a broad skillset instead of two different techniques. I agree about the side piste stuff, the option to escape would allow me to be a bit more confident and bail out if I'm going wrong.
My confidence was shaken a bit on a steep un-pisted run in Flaine (Diamant Noir) at Easter this year, it was very warm and the thick snow was cut up and really sticky. I lapped it a few times to try to crack it but I didn't ever feel like I could just enjoy it and relax.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Fri 4-10-24 14:35; edited 1 time in total
TBF that particular run has a couple of very steep sections. I always liked that they would leave alternative runs down from the top unpisted on alternative days, but just because it's a marked run doesn't make it any less challenging than, say, the Gers bowl side piste areas.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
The instructors could be taking you there for a reason.
henwc wrote:
... it was very warm and the thick snow was cut up and really sticky.
I lapped it a few times to try to crack it but I didn't ever feel like I could just enjoy it and relax.
Skis are harder to use in wet heavy snow than snowboards, so maybe I'd not worry too much about that specific.
In Whistler people often use fat skis to make that kind of condition more fun, or they download.
Lapping the hard stuff sounds like a good idea to me, so long as you feel you're progressing with it.
@Chaletbeauroc, Thanks very much for your time and the advice, it is really helpful.
I realised that I was trying a run that was more difficult than I was capable of in the conditions. That means I was not developing a good technique because the run was beyond my skills.
It is the same advice I would give a beginner i.e. get the skills right on the easier runs and then gradually move up if you feel ready. If it gets too tough and you are skiing to defensively go back to something easier and skill up some more.
I can do the same thing using side piste.
@phil_w, Thanks for the response. Sorry it wasn't intended as a dig at the instructors, I believe they are trying to progress things in the natural way. I will keep trying the hard stuff but I'll be a bit more open to moving to something a bit easier if I'm being a bit too tentative and using bad habits. The usual sign of this for me is getting back seat with my skis moving further apart, clearly a bit sub optimal.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
As @Chaletbeauroc says there's only really one 'correct' way to ski on modern skis and the only real difference between on and off piste is having your weight about 1" further back, so just spread equally over the toes and balls of your feet rather than being slightly more on the balls toes (but very much NOT leaning back!) - and that's only because you're skiing more unpredictable snow and having your weight 'central' gives you the best chance of reacting when the snow doesn't go quite where you expect it and you need to regain your balance.
And instructors don't start taking you off piste for lessons when you get more advanced because it's more fun for them (though it probably is ) but because it amplifies and punishes the issues with your core technique. Most people who get to the 'advanced' level (and generally your considered advanced if you can ski, ratther than just get down blacks) do so with a mixture or technique and "coping mechanisms" and it can be hard to get them to accept those coping mechanisms are 'wrong', because they work. Take them off piste and suddenly those 'tricks' that work on piste stop working and they have a harder time arguing there's nothing wrong.
Lessons, probably on piste are the answer - but the trick is finding an instrustor who 'speaks your language'. I had a lot of advanced lessons over the years that I got little from - then had lessons (in piste) with Gavin on a PSB and he was just on the same wavelength as me and transformed my skiing, and with hindsight I can now see most of those other instructors were trying to say the same thing just not in a way that clicked. After 4 lessons with Gavin I even got praise from the French guide I use for off piste - though with him no good deed goes unpublished/compliment given without a backhand so it was "Your skiing is a lot better now. Your turns no longer scare me."
After all it is free
After all it is free
Henwc wrote:
I have had some off piste lessons because it tends to become a focus for the instructor once you reach a certain level, i.e. they want to hit the powder or un-pisted runs. This means I know the technique but still have to consciously focus on it to get it to work.
…
It seems a next step is to go to a marked un-pisted area and lap it until I really start getting the feel for the technique. This would be somewhere like the run 42 under the E5 cable car in Ischgl.
Off piste isn’t so much about “off-piste technique” but which technique to use under given condition, and how to apply them to the best effect. To get that, there’s no other way but to ski off piste a lot, under different conditions.
So yes, go ski those un-pistes areas as much as you can. But make sure you ski different aspect and at different time of the day. You’ll eventually figure out what works for you.
Last edited by After all it is free on Fri 4-10-24 15:13; edited 1 time in total
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To get comfortable skiing off piste you have to ski a lot of off piste. And that isn't always easy. The obvious one being that conditions are not suitable.
Skiing off piste lends itself in my mind to skiing a line a few times. Because you will feel more comfortable skiing a line were you know where you are going and where there are obstacles/traps. And it's not boring repeating like it can be on a piste.
I agree with the above that it's not lot there is a whole load of new technique(s) to master. Feel certainly comes into it, smoothness too. Sudden movements that you may get away with on a piste may cause a fall and with it a loss of confidence. And of course falling off piste needs more recovering from in terms of clearing the snow from body, etc.
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Quote:
My confidence was shaken a bit on a steep un-pisted run in Flaine (Diamant Noir) at Easter this year, it was very warm and the thick snow was cut up and really sticky. I lapped it a few times to try to crack it but I didn't ever feel like I could just enjoy it and relax.
I’m one of the oddity that I LOVE spring skiing!
I don’t know what you have in mind by “crack it”. Warm sticky snow is usually quite “forgiving”, in that if you are off balance, just relax and go with the flow, you’ll eventually stop. You don’t have to worry about long slide into danger, or hitting anyone or anything, because the “warm sticky” snow will slow you down.
I know people worry about wrecking their knees when they fall and the ski not release. But that’s often because they’re tense and try to fight with their skis. (And as others suggest, hire some fatter planks, to get the feel of what it “should” feel like. Then replicate on your own mid-fat all mountain skis)
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The biggest challenge is mental IMHO.
In my experience the biggest obstacle to enjoying non-pisted terrain is the student's fixation with repeating a turn shape that is early and heavy most of the time.
Which is most people's go to move on-piste. Very few people use the turn shape to finish the turn, relying on pushing the snow surface and skidding the tails.
In non-pisted, unconsolidated snow you have to be patient at the start of the turn and give your skis the time to sink into the snow naturally. Not with force.
Once the skis have created a platform of consolidated snow - based on your speed, your weight, and the dimensions of the skis - then you're in a position to pivot both skis across the fall line simultaneously to slow down.
You continue pivoting through to the completion of the turn where you'll feel the speed decrease, the skis lighten and start to come back up to the surface.
Powder skiing is three-dimensional.
Instead of a symmetrical 'C' or 'S' shaped turn it will look more like an 'inverted J' shape.
By being patient and light on your skis you'll be skiing the snow conditions and the terrain underneath it, not a predetermined shape where one turn will feel effortless followed by one which is either too quick or too slow.
Does that make sense?
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Fri 4-10-24 15:28; edited 1 time in total
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Agree with @Layne, @abc, that you can't beat lots of time skiing off piste to actually get good at it. As said, it's as much about learning to read and adapt to conditions and terrain than actual technique.
Imo you can't beat n America for learning to ski off piste as due to the nature of resort set up you can ski all kinds of off piste terrain safely without any need for concerns about avalanche or a guide/partner.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Mjit wrote:
As @Chaletbeauroc says there's only really one 'correct' way to ski on modern skis
I very much did _not_ say that. There are lots of different ways of skiing, both on and off piste, some of them better suited to certain conditions that others, but none of them "correct" or incorrect as such. I have always made a point of insisting that there's no "wrong" way of skiing, just that there may be better ways than a student is current;y doing.
Oh, and your suggestion about weight distribution? No. It may be that the "one way" that you ski requires that, but in general it is not something anyone starting out off-piste should even be thinking about, it will not help them.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Mike Pow, Much of what you say makes sense, but you fall victim to generalisations, particularly about turn shape. Different conditions give different outcomes, but in general I'd still be aiming for S shaped linked turns in most snow conditions. Oh, and "be light on your skis" is really confusing, unless you can tell someone how they can lose weight quickly, and not a helpful thing to tell someone who's struggling. Yes, _I_ know what you mean, but relative newbies to off-piste will not, even if they think they do.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Thanks all all very helpful,
@Mjit, Thanks, I'll consider lessons on my next trip which happens to be S21BB
@abc, Thanks, I'll keep practicing. I'm typically a big fain of spring skiing, and I enjoy the slightly slushy stuff. On the day in question the snow was very heavy and wet (air temp was 15 Degrees C) and the resort closed the run an hour or so after I was on it for some reason. By 'cracking it' I meant attempting to get a more flowing run where I could enjoy it a bit.
@Mike Pow, Thanks, that makes sense, when I am comfortable on less steep soft snow (20 degrees of so) then I can get a bit closer to what you describe. When its nearer 45 degrees I tend to loose it a bit and I certainly turn to early. This supports the view that there is is a mental side to it.
@boarder2020, Thanks, agree I need lots of practivce.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Trying to remember where I first heard "Its not that you can't ski well off piste, its that you can't ski well and the off piste tells you'.
Its about 3 factors - fitness, technique, equipment;
The off piste is far less forgiving about all of these than pistes. (fairly sure that my skiing last year was worse than 2-3 years ago, despite improved technique from more practice/instruction as a direct result of not being anywhere near as fit... On piste I can mostly get away with it by substituting technique for fitness almost everywhere; In the off piste there are conditions where (me) getting down well requires more energetic techniques - I can do them, but not for an entire run...)
The solutions involve good instructors, practice and out of season fitness work. Practice needs to include easy off piste terrain and piste work. Also remember off piste != powder; Off piste = whatever happens to be there. Could be light, deep powder, could be icy; could be heavy snow, could be windcrust; etc etc
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Chaletbeauroc wrote:
@Mike Pow, Much of what you say makes sense, but you fall victim to generalisations, particularly about turn shape. Different conditions give different outcomes, but in general I'd still be aiming for S shaped linked turns in most snow conditions. Oh, and "be light on your skis" is really confusing, unless you can tell someone how they can lose weight quickly, and not a helpful thing to tell someone who's struggling.
Many thanks for your reply.
You're correct, it is very difficult to distill a series of dynamic actions into words.
If you have the confidence, sensitivity, and skills to aim for 'S' shaped turns in all snow conditions and terrain then more power to you.
I would suggest that the OP is not at this favourable stage of their skiing development.
Hence my reply and recommendations for them.
Having helped hundreds of skiers transition from the piste to unconsolidated snow off-piste and watched tense bodies and frustrated faces change to relaxed happy skiers I know that what I teach works.
The OP may not have heard these recommendations before and/or heard these recommendations but explained in a different way.
Being 'light on your skis' means being confident to let the skis run in the fall line with equal balance on each ski until they sink enough in the snow to create a solid platform on which to turn. You're effectively grooming the snow to make your own 'piste'. Once that's achieved then the OP can pivot both skis across the fall line simultaneously gradually adding more balance to the downhill ski and less balance to the uphill ski. The chest should stay as square to the skis as possible, creating a 90 degree angle between the chest and the ski.
As both skis and body travel through the arc of the turn to completion there will be a natural rising of the ski tips out of the snow allowing the transition into the next turn.
The biggest challenge for the skier is embracing the acceleration and speed at the start of the turn when both skis are pointing straight down the steepest part of the slope (the fall line).
Having the patience and confidence to enjoy the free fall. Resisting the urge to send the skis sideways before a platform is established and before the balance has shifted more to the downhill ski.
Acceleration at the start of the turn is your friend, even though it feels scary at the time.
The opposite of this which unfortunately is still being taught across the world despite the 'night & day' improvements in both ski and boot technology is
initiating the turn with a pole plant which would spear a shark
quickly pushing the snow with the downhill foot and ski while the uphill ski leads the turn
keeping the torso pointing straight down the mountain, making the skier look like a matador about to wave through a bull
That makes for a frustrating and tiring run/day.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Mon 7-10-24 8:46; edited 2 times in total
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Henwc wrote:
Thanks all all very helpful,
@Mike Pow, Thanks, that makes sense, when I am comfortable on less steep soft snow (20 degrees of so) then I can get a bit closer to what you describe. When its nearer 45 degrees I tend to loose it a bit and I certainly turn to early. This supports the view that there is is a mental side to it.
Pleasure.
I would suggest concentrating on lower angle off-piste slopes for now.
45 degrees is steep, and not the place to learn and/or develop skills.
On the day in question the snow was very heavy and wet (air temp was 15 Degrees C) and the resort closed the run an hour or so after I was on it for some reason.
I think in heavy snow, you actually need to let the ski run a bit faster, trusting it’ll come around naturally instead of trying to force the ski to turn sooner than it can. As others said, use turn shape to slow down instead of braking.
I’ve been in similar situation once. It was very tiring. (I thought I was tired because I’ve been skiing non-stop all morning and skipped lunch. But others in the group, who took a lunch break, were also knackered. So it’s the snow) But I was also slow to recognize that’s the condition I had been before, the infamous “Sierra Cement” very common to happen in the Lake Tahoe region where I used to live. I was working too hard for that condition. Having moved away from California, I was slow to adapt to that condition.
Bottom line, you need to ski different off-piste condition to learn which technique work best. And be prepared to improvise. Chuck it up as a learning experience.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
2 Henwc
Its been probably mentioned already, think about whats the difference between piste and offpise, generally on piste you could load the tips of the skis on turn initiation, ie starting new turn, piste skis are almost designed for that, offpist that endup in over the bars becasue the surface is not hard. In general, offpiste require more centered position.
@Henwc, Have you considered doing a Snoworks course? The All-Terrain courses that they run would help, I'm sure.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Henwc,
Quote:
When its nearer 45 degrees
Seriously? How often are you near a 45° slope? Really??
After all it is free
After all it is free
@under a new name, The slope mentioned earlier, Diamant Noir in Flaine, does have a couple of pitches approaching that, although I never actually measured them. There's another one over towards Samoens that has a long pitch of around 42 degrees continuous, which I have measured (inclinometer on compass) so some bits of it will be more than that.
So yeah, they're not common, but short sections of that steepness do exist. And those are just the on-piste parts, going off the edges, particularly of the first one, will find many drops where you may be steeper than that for two or three turns.
@DCG, I made some real breakthroughs with Phil, including on an off-piste course where we learned, of all things, to stem/plough the start of a turn on breakable crust. His approach to ski teaching, not always completely in line with BASI, always inspired me. I'd certainly second your recommendation.
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@DCG, good shout on Snoworks. I did their ‘off piste’ course last year and it was great. I consider myself a Gumby skier but I handled it fine and picked up some great tips.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
Mike Pow wrote:
Henwc wrote:
Thanks all all very helpful,
@Mike Pow, Thanks, that makes sense, when I am comfortable on less steep soft snow (20 degrees of so) then I can get a bit closer to what you describe. When its nearer 45 degrees I tend to loose it a bit and I certainly turn to early. This supports the view that there is is a mental side to it.
Pleasure.
I would suggest concentrating on lower angle off-piste slopes for now.
45 degrees is steep, and not the place to learn and/or develop skills.
Walk before you run.
I was thinking exactly the same thing 45o is very steep for off piste. You need a full quiver of off piste techniques to tackle such slopes including jump turns. I wouldn’t take a developing off piste skier anywhere near such a steep slope.
I’d be amazed if an instructor took you on anything like that given your description of your own skiing and if you did that on your own in fresh powder you are putting yourself in danger.
The majority of the time you want to be under 30o for both technique development and avalanche safety
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Sun 6-10-24 3:25; edited 2 times in total
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Two other things to think about / seek in fresh powder
1. The ‘rebound’ when you ski powder it’s really hard work using your muscles to get out of the snow to turn (the equivalent of unweighting in piste) if you are using your legs alone and it’s easy for developing skiers to become exhausted. Once you find your confidence (easy to say) and start skiing smother lines you will find that the rebound does a lot of this for you. Powder snow is elastic in a weird way such that when you push down into it in the middle of your turn it will compress then immediately push you back up. It is this elastic rebound that enables more experienced skiers to use less effort and appear to bounce out of the powder with ease, even getting air on occasion. This is critical to skiing deeper powder without exhausting yourself. Nicely illustrated at 57 seconds in the video above.
2. There is no such thing as leaning back in powder. Instead it’s having your weight less forwards and only ever if your tips are sinking and you need to get them out of the snow to turn. Just like on piste, if you are anything back from centre on your skis you are only using a 1/3rd of the skis surface area. You really need all of it when off piste otherwise you’ll sink. So turn with your tips and keep your shins pushing into the front of your boots at all times with your skis together as one. Again easy to say and hard to perfect. Bizarrely wider, specialist off piste skis make developing bad habits easier imo as you can get away with more. Use the whole of your ski and turn with your tips (in powder)
Good luck with your development. The PSB easy off piste days sound good for your level,
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Sun 6-10-24 7:28; edited 3 times in total
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Henwc, Some good points coming through
Here's my 3 penn'rth....
Narrower stance
You need to focus on keeping your weight centered on both skis, as near to 50:50 weight distribution as possible. If one ski is weighted but the other not they will try to track in different directions (with inevitable consequences) in deeper snow. Think of skiing both skis as a single platform much like a mono-ski
Ski the fall line - body down the slope
Keep your shoulders square to the slope - if you let your shoulders twist into the slope you will start weighting the uphill ski more, with the consequences alluded to above
Pole plants
With current "modern" ski techniques so many skiers don't know how to plant the pole. In powder particularly it serves multiple purposes:
1) A trigger initiating the turn
2) A potential point of balance (though don't expect to support all your weight on it - sometimes just a "virtual" balance point)
3) Helps up-unweighting in deep snow, allowing your skiis to become unpressured as you make the next turn
4) Keeps your hands forward (and hence your centre of mass) - a good focus in all forms of skiing
5) Keeps your body square to the fall line as described above, and helps project your body forwards and down the slope - your skiis will always catch you up
6) Probably many others too...
Oh, and did I say Pole plants ....
BTW: consider using poles with larger powder baskets too.... Mine have easily interchangeable ones
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
geoffers wrote:
@Henwc, Some good points coming through
Here's my 3 penn'rth....
Ski the fall line - body down the slope
Keep your shoulders square to the slope - if you let your shoulders twist into the slope you will start weighting the uphill ski more, with the consequences alluded to above
Everyone has their own take on what works in powder.
However, the above recommendation is so outdated as to make it obsolete IMHO. Advances in boot and ski technology don't require you to build up the torque that was once needed to 'get your skis around'.
Let your upper body stay square to the arc of the turn, like a spoke in a wheel.
Look to where you're going, go to where you're looking.
Get comfortable with this because if you venture into the trees at some stage you absolutely want to be looking where you're going, not down the fall line.
Obviously if the snow is deep and light enough for you to be 'in it' not 'on it' then the turn shape will be dramatically less emphasised as the snow acts as your speed control. It will look like like you're straight lining but you'll be making just enough of a turn to continue a flowing momentum down the slope
Ski the fall line - body down the slope
Keep your shoulders square to the slope - if you let your shoulders twist into the slope you will start weighting the uphill ski more, with the consequences alluded to above
.... don't require you to build up the torque that was once needed to 'get your skis around'....Let your upper body stay square to the arc of the turn, like a spoke in a wheel.
Ooops, sorry Mike - probably my bad description, as I was hoping to portray what you describe, so I guess should have said for the body to stay square to the turn rather the slope etc
I wasn't suggesting using your upper body to "torque" your skis around, but just not to "leave-it-behind", which could result in potential pressure imbalance on the skis etc etc.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
geoffers wrote:
Mike Pow wrote:
geoffers wrote:
@Henwc, Some good points coming through
Here's my 3 penn'rth....
Ski the fall line - body down the slope
Keep your shoulders square to the slope - if you let your shoulders twist into the slope you will start weighting the uphill ski more, with the consequences alluded to above
.... don't require you to build up the torque that was once needed to 'get your skis around'....Let your upper body stay square to the arc of the turn, like a spoke in a wheel.
Ooops, sorry Mike - probably my bad description, as I was hoping to portray what you describe, so I guess should have said for the body to stay square to the turn rather the slope etc
I wasn't suggesting using your upper body to "torque" your skis around, but just not to "leave-it-behind", which could result in potential pressure imbalance on the skis etc etc.
Cool. Same page
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I think there are probably as many types of off piste snow as there are days in a season. So beating yourself up about the pitches that are garbage is not helpful. However if you can get a consistent easy access pitch then lapping it until you can ski it unconsciously is a good development idea.
I think the real objective is to learn to ski by feel. That way you naturally adapt to changes in the snow better. Probably needs some guided development. I've seen all the sH fave bash instructors achieve great results and rave reviews.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
.
There are no pistes close to 45º. The Swiss Wall (just in Switzerland) and the Harakiri in Austria both claim to be the steepest black run. Harakiri's steepest section they claim is is 78% (which is 38º) and The Swiss Wall as "up to" 76% (just over 37º). Both a bit scary in icy conditions. The more extreme Double Black Diamonds in the USA can be a different matter. But yes, there are quite a few 45º off-piste slopes around (or even a few at 50º), especially in places like Chamonix and La Grave, if you look them out (in a few years time). How are your jump-turns?
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Sun 6-10-24 17:39; edited 1 time in total
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
snowball wrote:
.
There are no pistes close to 45º.
Maybe the OP meant 45%. A lot of people seem to mix up % and deg
... It is this elastic rebound that enables more experienced skiers to use less effort and appear to bounce out of the powder with ease, even getting air on occasion.
This is critical to skiing deeper powder without exhausting yourself. Nicely illustrated at 57 seconds in the video above....
It's off topic, but I'd say the opposite!
It's not necessary to "bounce out of the powder"; skis turn just fine in it. The video style at 57s looks exhausting as well as ugly, like he's trying to beat the mountain into submission. The later yellow jacket skier looks to be skiing much better, and he demonstrates that the bouncing isn't necessary. Mike Pow's video shows a much smoother approach to skiing powder, one which is much more common in my experience at least.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@DCG, yes.
@phil_w +1
After all it is free
After all it is free
snowball wrote:
.
There are no pistes close to 45º.
Maybe not in the Alps. Definitely there are in Scandinavia. The top of Experten in Trysil is, there's a similar run in Tandådalen, and the Olympic downhill run in Kvitfjell (Lillehammer) is steeper than 45 degrees in places.
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Surprising, I haven't skied in Scandinavia.
Generally downhill racing tracks aren't very steep since they are taken almost straight. With the exception of the brief Mausefalle drop just after the start of the Hannenkam, which is just over 40º (they do an 80metre jump, landing at 120kph) but the scary thing is it immediately changes to almost flat, putting enormous compression on the legs.
The detailed description of the Kvitfjell downhill I could find only mentions one steepness, on the Wintherhogget section, which they say is particularly tough. That had a pitch of 64%, which is a bit over 33º. Of course there may be steeper bits further down.
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FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
) but because it amplifies and punishes the issues with your core technique. Most people who get to the 'advanced' level (and generally your considered advanced if you can ski, ratther than just get down blacks) do so with a mixture or technique and "coping mechanisms" and it can be hard to get them to accept those coping mechanisms are 'wrong', because they work. Take them off piste and suddenly those 'tricks' that work on piste stop working and they have a harder time arguing there's nothing wrong.
