 Poster: A snowHead
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Yes it was me; I'm now sitting back in the motorhome wincing with pain across my back wishing I'd taken his details. Going down to the hospital shortly as this was as my last session before starting home from a six week trip.
Sitting on the slope in the immediate aftermath I felt OK, they say that swearing helps! I even managed a couple more gentle runs but then took the gondola down to Les Diablerets and subsequently walking back is when the pain really started.
It was a bit bumpy (2pm) but not busy. I was riding a new board, which was quite soft for me, and was practising tight controlled carves. I was two thirds down a consistent 300m section of red about 50m wide and was taking up less than 10m of it doing turns of about 6ft radius at slow speed, probably on something like my fifteenth set. You really couldn't be more controlled and predictable. Nobody else was within 30m.
Just as I came off my toeside turn there was a wail and immediate impact, no time to react. He'd come diagonally across the slope at about 20mph I suppose, average intermediate speed in those conditions. It was body to body with a bit of helmet and ski/board clash, he fell about 4m down from me but seemed OK. He did ask if I was OK and, at the time, I felt like I would be so I just glared at him and rode off. He was probably about my age, mid sixties.
I wear a back protector all the time, not bruised or aching anywhere but feel like it's probably some sort of whiplash to my trunk muscles across my right back at chest level. Took some ibuprofen ten minutes ago and it's already reduced the spasms.
What can you do? Carving is all I do, if its good conditions I ride mostly blues with big S turns checking uphill every other turn but in these conditions you have to concentrate on the bit of snow or ice 5 to 10m in front.
The glimpse I had of him approaching he was out of control but I don't imagine he was before collision was imminent. He just hadn't been paying attention to my riding. Lots of skiers, including kids, ride the same sort of track when it's like this, though not so aggressively,. Is it just that skiers, no matter how experienced, don't expect snowboarders to carve their boards?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@BoardieK, bummer, bad "luck" (not that luck was really involved, sounds like just poor judgement from the skier). Was waiting to see if this was in Vermont...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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(Assuming not a spoof) it’s interesting to get both sides of the story. I hope you make a full recovery.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Thanks guys. Just been packing away the boards and skis in the garage, ibuprofen not as effective as I first thought. 
Hospital about an hour away.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@BoardieK, I had almost exactly the same happena couple of weejs sgo. The only major difference being, I was on skis and hit by a boarder. Luckily my aches and pains eased over the next couple of days. Hope yours fo the same.
Reality is what you wear on your feet doesn't affect whether you can be a d1ck.
Of course it could have been our fault. No doubt yours was caused by releasing the energy in the flexed board and I pulled off the fabled "skaters turn" or some other physics defying moves to accelerate into their path 
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@adithorp, haha, of course. I didn't bother to comment on that thread, and resisted the urge to add this to it for fear of reviving it.
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@BoardieK, No doubt they'll be along to tell us we were breaking their personal set of rules 
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That really sucks. I hope you recover well and soon. I agree with the other posters, it matters not if you are on skis or a board. There are those who simply don’t understand, or wilfully ignore, how to use the slopes safely. As evidenced by your accident, and all the guff written elsewhere about “real world” and how the need for the uphill slope user to avoid crashing into those below on the slope is somehow difficult/inconvenient.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Very sorry to hear about your injury! It's good for all of us to remember that in the immediate hour after an accident, when we are still pumped up with adrenaline and possibly anger and confusion, we tend to underestimate our injuries. It's easy to injure oneself even more in that pain-free window of time. In fact, it sounds like you wrote this post the same day that you had the accident - I'll bet you felt even worse the next day.
It's probably for the best that you let the guy ski off - not much to do after the accident and shouting at him wouldn't have left you any less injured.
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I got clattered from behind in Bormio, 3 weeks ago.
The "young man" was simply skiing too fast for his ability - I shared several words educational advice, and like you, carried on after a brief pause.
I was fine all week and I'm fine when on my feet now.
However, I'm getting some real pain in the coccyx, especially, sitting, driving or getting up.
My bumps and bruises rarely last long, so this is becoming a slight worry.
Still, off to France at Easter, so it'll be reyt.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Sitting in the "Urgences Adultes" waiting area at a very nice new hospital near Villeneuve, however the queue and waiting times are typical of an NHS hospital.
I've been seen by the triage nurse, she was non committal of course but seems all ribs and spine is ok. Hopefully I'm wasting my time here but the pain seems to be inside my ribcage so best checked I also have Addison's Disease and don't want to go into crisis unexpectedly.
@diaphon, interesting about that "pain free" half hour.
Has anyone, first or second hand, actually ever taken the perpetrators details in this sort of collision?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| BoardieK wrote: |
Sitting in the "Urgences Adultes" waiting area at a very nice new hospital near Villeneuve, however the queue and waiting times are typical of an NHS hospital.
I've been seen by the triage nurse, she was non committal of course but seems all ribs and spine is ok. Hopefully I'm wasting my time here but the pain seems to be inside my ribcage so best checked I also have Addison's Disease and don't want to go into crisis unexpectedly.
@diaphon, interesting about that "pain free" half hour.
Has anyone, first or second hand, actually ever taken the perpetrators details in this sort of collision? |
That’s where the German or Austrian health systems come into their own. I know through experience at Radstadt for example.
Don’t they 99 times out a 100 ski or snowboard away within seconds? Sometimes passers by intervene and hold them.
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| BoardieK wrote: |
| Has anyone, first or second hand, actually ever taken the perpetrators details in this sort of collision? |
Initially yes but didn't follow it up as much as I should have done.
Was watching a race in Bormio from the start area, sat down on the snow. An Italian teenager skied over the roller above this and crashed into us, hitting the trainee sat next to me. The head of the local Guardia di Finanza was there to provide medical cover for the race and arrested the perp. When I went to the GdF office later they suggested not pressing charges as it would require returning to Italy for any hearing, we agreed to this. In hindsight, we should maybe have left open the option of a lawsuit to cover the costs of private physio for the trainee.
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You know it makes sense.
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I had three ribs busted by an over -terrained middle aged man losing it on a narrow steep section and crashing into me. Both picked ourselves up, didn’t feel too damaged so just had a chat (where he admitted it was just too steep/narrow/hard for him). Advised him to stick to terrain he could manage and skied off. Month of pain and inconvenience followed. The pain didn’t really kick in until the next day. Now I always insist people share details when I see an accident. And happy to intervene to ensure that happens.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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So bumpybrandy had travelled transatlantic?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Hope you are ok BordieK
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| WinBoard2 wrote: |
| Hope you are ok BordieK |
Mostly ok if I don't move but waiting room chairs not made for relaxing.
Thinking of changing my username to BoredieK 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| zikomo wrote: |
| There are those who simply don’t understand, or wilfully ignore, how to use the slopes safely. |
I still think the ski schools are missing an opportunity here to improve slope safety.
In my experience, slope safety and techniques to reduce risks of collisions (either as uphill or indeed downhill skier/boarder...) are just not taught by the ski schools. They focus entirely on technique and "staying in control". The problem is, staying in control does not mean they suddenly understand how to ski safely. You can of course be in control but still ski dangerously.
My kids have been through a couple of weeks of Austrian ski school over last few years and I don't think slope safety has been mentioned once. As I pointed in various other threads, why shouldn't they teach this topic from an early stage, it then becomes a natural part of their thought process when deciding what manoeuvres to make, what line to take, how fast to go etc.?
There will no doubt be exceptions and not all ski schools are the same etc etc, but it's not surprising to me that there are a large number of people who do not use the slopes safely. They have simply never been taught what skiing safely really means.
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I'm not convinced it should need a lot of explanation - and the rules are often displayed round ski resorts, for example on the pylons of lifts, where you can scarcely miss them, and at lift pass offices etc. But even if you had never been told that if you are skiing faster and overtake somebody you should give them plenty of room, it's kind of obvious, really!
I'm sure, though, that I was at some point told the rules, or reminded about them, in lessons.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| BoardieK wrote: |
| WinBoard2 wrote: |
| Hope you are ok BordieK |
Mostly ok if I don't move but waiting room chairs not made for relaxing.
Thinking of changing my username to BoredieK |
I suspect you might have a cracked rib or two. If so it’s painful and uncomfortable but will sort itself out. Muscular damage in the core is much worse! But also likely will sort itself out.
Wishing you the best. It’s not fun when this happens.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Pyramus, Why don’t you qualify as an instructor and implement your ideas on how skiing should be taught?
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| BoardieK wrote: |
Has anyone, first or second hand, actually ever taken the perpetrators details in this sort of collision? |
Yes, end of last season I was comprehensively wiped out whilst stationary. I could see some fast skiers coming down a piste and I waited on the off-piste side of the poles for them to pass. One of them failed to make a turn and collided with me, breaking 3 of my ribs (I suspect you may have a similar injury). Ski patrol took all details before they ferried me off the hill on a skidoo. To cut a long story short, knowing the identity of the guilty party made no difference. My health insurance picked up my bills, I've no idea whether they tried to recover anything from the other skier - I filled in the form they provided and had a good witness (local instructor).
Hope you have a good recovery.
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| Origen wrote: |
| But even if you had never been told that if you are skiing faster and overtake somebody you should give them plenty of room, it's kind of obvious, really! |
I disagree, people are unfortunately learning the hard way. If it was obvious, why are there literally 10s of thousands of collisions occurring? And it's more complicated than "giving them plenty of room" as I've tried to explain on other threads. When pistes are busy and/or narrow, in practice, most skiers are guilty of being too close to each other due to the density of people on the slopes (bit of pole clicking anyone?  ).
Research paper on ski collisions:
https://www.injuryjournal.com/article/S0020-1383(22)00356-4/fulltext
A few extracts:
"Skiers wearing a helmet had an increased risk for being the more severely injured when colliding with another skier. In skier vs. snowboarder collisions the skier had a nearly eight-fold higher risk of being injured more severely."
"Collisions were most prevalent on easy graded slopes during a downhill run but collisions between two skiers also frequently occurred on more difficult slopes. On easy slopes there is a greater frequency of skiers and snowboarders with less experience as well as a higher density of skiers and snowboarders resulting in an increased frequency of collisions. In steeper slopes it is easier for skiers as well as snowboarders to increase speed resulting in short reaction time and high energy when involved in a high-speed collision. The fact that there is a different angle of view between skiers and snowboarders must also be taken in consideration. Ruedl et al. found that people injured due to a collision were more often skiers and of higher skill levels compared to those injured by a self-inflicted fall [[11]]. Concordant to our study, another study by Ruedl et al. showed that snowboard accidents in general are likely associated with male gender, younger age and often occur in terrain parks [[13]]."
"Awareness of an increased risk must be raised for females and particularly while standing or sitting on the slope."
So basically, don't wear a helmet, and don't be a female stood around instagramming 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| zikomo wrote: |
| @Pyramus, Why don’t you qualify as an instructor and implement your ideas on how skiing should be taught? |
I wish I could mate, if I could wind back 25 years 
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People ski like dicks not because they don't know, but because they don't care. They probably drive the same way. If being followed by a police car they would drive correctly.....till it had gone.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Pyramus wrote: |
| zikomo wrote: |
| @Pyramus, Why don’t you qualify as an instructor and implement your ideas on how skiing should be taught? |
I wish I could mate, if I could wind back 25 years |
Age is not the barrier. Actually being able to ski that well, spending the time, and some dedication is all it takes. But anyway just carry on telling us all how we should teach. You clearly know better already, without the ability and training.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Pyramus, You don't seem a day over 16.
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Interesting paper! I was also surprised by the finding that helmets increased the severity of injuries, that finding is prominent in the abstract. But digging into the details, none of the findings are actually very robust.
The odds ratio for wearing a helmet is close to 1, meaning that it didn't make injuries meaningfully better or worse. More importantly, they only considered accidents when one skier wore a helmet and the other did not, and they asked which of the two was worse off. Likely skiers who don't wear helmets are different from skiers who do wear helmets (I'm guessing those without helmets are old school skiers with more experience). The effect of helmets may be inversely correlated with the effect of skier type. Anyway, OR = 1 means no meaningful change in risk.
The other conclusions in the paper are thin in the same way. They are all statistically valid, but too poorly controlled to understand and effect sizes are tiny. Yes, being female means you get hurt worse if you collide with a man, but that's probably just a function of body weight.
Anyway, it was a fun read and always nice to see real data!
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You know it makes sense.
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Goodness, here we go again.
Hope you mend well, @BoardieK,
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@BoardieK, hopefully the injuries aren't too bad, and the recovery is swift!
And now for a thread drift but a prime example of people not knowing and/or respecting the rules of the slope. For those that use Facebook and are in the group "Facebook Ski Club" might have seen a dad post a video of his two kids skiing in Serre Chevalier. They both straight line the whole way down a mildly busy piste, the girl cutting up a cautious skier coming within 0.5m, and then they both chuck in some dodgy parallel stop while dad congratulates them on some fast skiing.
Virtually all the comments, including some from myself, told the dad that his kids were out of control and dangerous to other slope users. He complained, said he was just posting a video of his 2 kids having fun and the group was pathetic and left the group.
That's classic for how people behave skiing. So many people ski out of control, don't look uphill before setting off to check anyone is coming etc!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| rjs wrote: |
| @Pyramus, You don't seem a day over 16. |
Here we go again, the passive aggressiveness of Snowheads.
@bumpybrandy where are you dude?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Well I gave up at 4am and left, somehow I didn't expect over 8 hours of waiting in a Swiss hospital. We start the drive home today.
Thanks for the kind thoughts; if I move slowly I'm OK, when dog the yanked the lead this morning that was like a knife in the back. The worst thing is not knowing which movement is going to hurt so I'm tensed up all the time.
I think that, although the skier wasn't going particularly fast for the conditions, he was just on his ragged edge and didn't have time to assess the situation ahead. I'm pretty sure my injury is from landing awkwardly and not the initial body check but it's all just a blur really. However, I'll take the physical injury over last time I (think) I was hit when I found myself at the bottom of a slope looking around and thinking "Where am I and how did I get here?"
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| zikomo wrote: |
| you definitely seem to think that you know better than well-respected and experienced professional instructors which is very odd. |
Load of rubbish! What makes you think that?
What I find odd is that most of you seem to think the FIS code of conduct and typical instruction provided in ski schools cannot be improved (even marginally!) to help reduce collision counts or at least reduce the risk of collisions occurring. As if it's all perfect, and we all know nothing is perfect!
I'd be happy with even a glimmer of an attitude that accepts it isn't perfect and can actually be improved.
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| Pyramus wrote: |
| zikomo wrote: |
| you definitely seem to think that you know better than well-respected and experienced professional instructors which is very odd. |
Load of rubbish! What makes you think that?
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Everything you write 
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| BoardieK wrote: |
Well I gave up at 4am and left, somehow I didn't expect over 8 hours of waiting in a Swiss hospital. We start the drive home today.
Thanks for the kind thoughts; if I move slowly I'm OK, when dog the yanked the lead this morning that was like a knife in the back. The worst thing is not knowing which movement is going to hurt so I'm tensed up all the time.
I think that, although the skier wasn't going particularly fast for the conditions, he was just on his ragged edge and didn't have time to assess the situation ahead. I'm pretty sure my injury is from landing awkwardly and not the initial body check but it's all just a blur really. However, I'll take the physical injury over last time I (think) I was hit when I found myself at the bottom of a slope looking around and thinking "Where am I and how did I get here?" |
Sorry to hear and hope you recover quickly. Which hospital sis you attend? We've used the one in Hopital Riviera-Chablais in Rennaz to attend to a deep cut on the leg and only waited a couple of hours.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Pyramus wrote: |
I'd be happy with even a glimmer of an attitude that accepts it isn't perfect and can actually be improved. |
I don't think anyone has claimed that "it" can't be improved (whether "it" is the FIS rules or ski instruction). However, no one seems to be persuaded that you know how to improve "it". You berate snowHeads for being resistant to change but you will not change your position one iota.
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I feel your pain, Im a snowboarder that got hit from behind by another boarder coming from off-piste and jumping into me ! Damaged my ankle which ruined the holiday and its never been the same since.
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