 Poster: A snowHead
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| greengriff wrote: |
This was prompted by something in the Telegraph article linked in the 'I'm never going skiing again...' thread. The one valid point the author had in my view was about her friend getting her leg mangled leaving the lift.
Some years ago one of my children was having a lesson and the instructor explained that his personal unbreakable skiing rule was to get as far away from the lift as quickly as possible. He stated that the number one cause of devastating knee injuries was slow speed accidents leaving the lift, because bindings do not release under such circumstances. I've no idea if his claim was accurate, but it intuitively made sense, and since then, regardless of where I actually want to go when I leave the lift, I take the safest path away first, then stop and afterwards set off in the direction that I actually want go.
However this doesn't stop other people being dicks, and last week a guy in the far right seat who wanted to go left simply cut across everyone else, directly knocking over my little boy and causing another lady to swerve to avoid him. Her skis became entangled with another skier's and they both fell. Luckily no harm was done. Unfortunately one does see variations on this behaviour regularly.
Equally as bad last week was the management of skiers by the lifties. I'm not joking at all when I say the *only* lift where the attendant was moving people away from the exit was the gondola up into the resort where everyone was on foot!!!! Nuts. At almost every chair lift there were people standing right in front of the exit, snowboarders doing their bindings and even people who'd taken off their skis and were having a little sit down, whilst the lifties did nothing.
So, that was an incredibly long-winded way to ask: Is there a proper rule with regard to leaving lifts? Googling 'skiers code' and reading the first few results reveals it's not even mentioned. |
I always assumed you should ski quickly and away from others, regardless of where you want to end up - once clear of incoming skiers you can then proceed to go where you wanted to go.
The only time this went wrong was one time when I got on the lift and one ski fell off. Despite the lift operator seeing this happen and giving the ski to someone on a lift behind me it never occurred to them to tell someone at the top to stop the lift when we got to the top (I would have thought they have radios or a phone to connect top and bottom), leaving me to attempt to ski off on one ski. Needless to say I knocked a fellow skier over because I cannot ski on one ski. Thankfully no-one was hurt.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| shefmarkh wrote: |
| greengriff wrote: |
This was prompted by something in the Telegraph article linked in the 'I'm never going skiing again...' thread. The one valid point the author had in my view was about her friend getting her leg mangled leaving the lift.
Some years ago one of my children was having a lesson and the instructor explained that his personal unbreakable skiing rule was to get as far away from the lift as quickly as possible. He stated that the number one cause of devastating knee injuries was slow speed accidents leaving the lift, because bindings do not release under such circumstances. I've no idea if his claim was accurate, but it intuitively made sense, and since then, regardless of where I actually want to go when I leave the lift, I take the safest path away first, then stop and afterwards set off in the direction that I actually want go.
However this doesn't stop other people being dicks, and last week a guy in the far right seat who wanted to go left simply cut across everyone else, directly knocking over my little boy and causing another lady to swerve to avoid him. Her skis became entangled with another skier's and they both fell. Luckily no harm was done. Unfortunately one does see variations on this behaviour regularly.
Equally as bad last week was the management of skiers by the lifties. I'm not joking at all when I say the *only* lift where the attendant was moving people away from the exit was the gondola up into the resort where everyone was on foot!!!! Nuts. At almost every chair lift there were people standing right in front of the exit, snowboarders doing their bindings and even people who'd taken off their skis and were having a little sit down, whilst the lifties did nothing.
So, that was an incredibly long-winded way to ask: Is there a proper rule with regard to leaving lifts? Googling 'skiers code' and reading the first few results reveals it's not even mentioned. |
I always assumed you should ski quickly and away from others, regardless of where you want to end up - once clear of incoming skiers you can then proceed to go where you wanted to go.
The only time this went wrong was one time when I got on the lift and one ski fell off. Despite the lift operator seeing this happen and giving the ski to someone on a lift behind me it never occurred to them to tell someone at the top to stop the lift when we got to the top (I would have thought they have radios or a phone to connect top and bottom), leaving me to attempt to ski off on one ski. Needless to say I knocked a fellow skier over because I cannot ski on one ski. Thankfully no-one was hurt. |
I had something similar happen to me, in Pamporovo, decades ago! My ski came off as I was getting on a one man chair.. My instructor picked the ski up. It was the worst chair as well - only went at full pelt and the edge of the chair was neatly positioned just above the top of my boots.. Every time!!! Needless to say I also fell over a the top - it was only my second time skiing, after a 10 year break. That was a bitterly cold chair, on your own!! Nice and wooden - no namby pamby cushioning either and no slowing down to gently scoop you up or waft you on your way the top either!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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People complain about the cost of North American resorts. But one thing is, the lifties in NA mountains are usually quite attentive. In that kind of situation, you can signal to the liftie as you reach the top for him to slow/stop the lift.
The scenario mentioned earlier, people in the previous chair fell down and blocking the exit ramp. Almost each and every time I saw it happened, the chair was stopped. Sometimes the liftie even came out to pick up the scattered equipment so the path is clear before he re-start the chair.
I ski mostly in North America resorts. That’s been my experience.
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@abc, That's the way it is in France. As a more elderly skier I was embassed the other week when the lifty slowed the lift as I approached the top.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@johnE, naively, I expect that to be the case in all countries. So I was a bit surprised reading what some of the people had written (pile up at the exit ramp and the chair kept on running).
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Had one today. Started pulling the bat down while we were still on the travelator. The wanted to pull it up about half a mile before the exit. So that theory is proven. Thankfully I had an inkling as he came barrelling up and nudged me in his haste to make the lift. There were exactly 6 people at the entrance area for a 4 man lift. I had my hand on the bar and just sharply halted it which elicited an expletive. Which was interesting. Stern look and just carried on chatting to my daughter on the other side of me. Then a brief and polite word at the top.
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| zikomo wrote: |
| Had one today. Started pulling the bat down while we were still on the travelator. The wanted to pull it up about half a mile before the exit. So that theory is proven. Thankfully I had an inkling as he came barrelling up and nudged me in his haste to make the lift. There were exactly 6 people at the entrance area for a 4 man lift. I had my hand on the bar and just sharply halted it which elicited an expletive. Which was interesting. Stern look and just carried on chatting to my daughter on the other side of me. Then a brief and polite word at the top. |
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@abc,
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People complain about the cost of North American resorts
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Ok, there are some things that are just great about sliding in NA, but paying that much dosh to stand in a queue at the bottom of the hill for hours on a powder day because every blooming shop in town is closed and the schools have shut for the kids to go play is just wrong! I mean, at resorts like Kicking Horse or Revelstoke, if you don't get in line before 6am you're not going up for ages. Mind you, if it's not a powder day you've probably got the place to yourself! But you are right, the French lifties could do with a lesson in how to do their job from just about anywhere in NA.
Anyway, when I board I go to the right seat...I'm goofy...just so I can see which pillock it is that's going to spike me with his pole, or snowplough off on top of my board, just so I can buzz him later! When I ski I just stand up and bug off as quick as possible, well out of the way of anyone.
Either way, people that stand about (or sit) in the off load area should be castrated as far as I'm concerned  , cruxifiction's too good for 'em!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@gixxerniknik, how do you “buzz” someone?
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There is some whole next level of angst/self righteousness going on here. The lifts go round and round all day every day with next to no drama.
1. Don’t get choosy on your preferred seat. Get used to them all. It’s not hard to go straight ahead when alighting.
2. If someone is anxious about raising the bar early, let them, you are not going to get magically ejected from your seat into the abyss below and they will be less stressed. I’ve never even thought of deliberately holding the bar down on someone. That is weird.
3. If you are in a queue and have to share… get chatting.
4. If you are competent and an instructor asks you to chaperone someone under 1.25m do it. Or don’t… but I’ll think you are a bit weird too.
5. If it’s non detachable reach round and grab the arm rest first.
6. Get off, go straight ahead, evacuate the landing area. Continue your day
7. That’s it!
It’s not like having to prepare for liftoff from the west wall poma. We have it easier than it has ever been.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| dode wrote: |
2. If someone is anxious about raising the bar early, let them, you are not going to get magically ejected from your seat into the abyss below and they will be less stressed. I’ve never even thought of deliberately holding the bar down on someone. That is weird. |
Then colour me weird. Regardless of how anxious the demented early bar-raisers I’m sharing a chair with might be, my skis are staying firmly on the bar until we’re safely over the netting. If they want to raise it earlier, they can ask: and they’ll get a polite explanation as to why not.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| dode wrote: |
There is some whole next level of angst/self righteousness going on here. The lifts go round and round all day every day with next to no drama.
1. Don’t get choosy on your preferred seat. Get used to them all. It’s not hard to go straight ahead when alighting.
2. If someone is anxious about raising the bar early, let them, you are not going to get magically ejected from your seat into the abyss below and they will be less stressed. I’ve never even thought of deliberately holding the bar down on someone. That is weird.
3. If you are in a queue and have to share… get chatting.
4. If you are competent and an instructor asks you to chaperone someone under 1.25m do it. Or don’t… but I’ll think you are a bit weird too.
5. If it’s non detachable reach round and grab the arm rest first.
6. Get off, go straight ahead, evacuate the landing area. Continue your day
7. That’s it!
It’s not like having to prepare for liftoff from the west wall poma. We have it easier than it has ever been. |
Quite.
4 pages ?
Queue up. Get on, sit down, get off. Don’t be a dick during any part of the process. Have a nice day 
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Personally not bothered by early bar 'lifters' . . .can sometimes make sense on a fast chair exit approach (better than leaving it to the very last minute when beginners are faffing) and would certainly not physically stop someone from doing it (unless there were perhaps tiny kids on board) . . .
Early bar 'downers' however (those eejits that yank it down on top of your head just because they're probably on the inside chair and have managed to settle their posteriors 1 second before you have) should be shot at dawn . . .they're need to realise they're on holiday and relax! If I'm on a lift solo / with mixed individuals / non brits I don't know then I'll happily stick my arm up to stop this happening . . . a quick scowl to the guilty party usually does the trick
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You know it makes sense.
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Re early bar lifting: I do and don’t try to prevent it. Generally I don’t mind, but there are some lifts I use frequently that are prone to very sudden swingy stops over a very long drop. For those lifts, i will take my skis off the rest quite early but keep my hand / arm over bar until there is a net under us.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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When I first learnt to ski I spent days trying to get up too quick and always sat back on the ground usually, sometimes on top of someone else, the last day I took my two kids and helped them to stand up by lifting their back bottoms up with my hands, this made me stay on the lift slightly longer and so the chair was in the right place for me to stand up, ever since then Im usually the last one off the lift which keeps me out of the way of anyone falling, always happy to take a child with me on a lift and even a nervous beginner adult, we had one in our family group last year and just told her to not rush until her knees were below her hips, she didnt fall once and I even resisted putting my hand under her bottom to lift her up too  . I find its far worse getting on than off a chair especially a six or eight man one, people cant seem to ski in a straight line after the gate and start pushing each other around plus sticking their poles into you or skis, just hold the dam things in front of you so if its icy you can just stop yourself in the right place without snowploughing to a stop taking every elses room, dont get me started on gondolas where they wont move inside properly to fill if right up, I know the French don't queue but last week was really bad, trying to jump the line and then blocking the entrance for others, we had to barge our way into a eight seater one in megeve where there was six French taking the eight seats and were quite annoyed when I stamped in, no one moved up to make room and my wife was too polite to sit in either of the half empty seats which I couldnt get to, I would have sat on top of them if she hadnt been in my way, two who were sat even tried to get out before me who was standing right infront of the door, my rules for gondolas are first in last out and vice versus.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Harry Flashman wrote: |
| rokoko wrote: |
| It's surprising how some lift attendants seem to zone out on the job. |
Doesn't surprise me at all - what a horribly repetitive job. I feel for the folk relegated to lift duty, watching us idiots all day long. Especially on a powder day... |
I am quite sure that in 2024 you could fit a video camera at the top to capture a season's worth of video and then train an AI system that could with great accuracy stop the chairlift in the event of a problem. Or at the very least sound a warning to alert the lift attendant that there is a problem. Honestly, it's a machine vision system that you could probably have implemented a decade ago, though these days would be a lot cheaper. It's the sort of system you could knock up with a Raspberry Pi for a few hundred quid. To be honest I would be surprised if the lift manufacturers are not already working on it. The great thing about computers is they don't get tired and zone out. The other thing about an AI system is that you could tune it to er on the side of caution aka stop the lift more than needed as the downside is minimal.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| dode wrote: |
4. If you are competent and an instructor asks you to chaperone someone under 1.25m do it. Or don’t… but I’ll think you are a bit weird too.
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Historically I would have had no issue with that and would say the same. Sadly these days I would be very weary unless there was another adult on the lift to avoid false accusations. While the chances are very low of a false accusation the potential downside is so massive to make it not worth it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There cannot be a one rule fits all for this gripe.
There are so many variations of chair lift, that it is just not possible to categorize their individual idiosyncrasy.
What really gets me when you get on the one person chairlift called "cliffy" is that sometimes the bar does not close properly and you cannot get it on with a backpack on as the chair is too small. (or you are too fat)
Then when you arrive at the top people are just lying around, hanging around the landing zone, having a fag and things.
GET OUT OF THE WAY!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| turms2 wrote: |
ok sounds silly but until this topic i had no idea that Etiquette has also this meaning " a set of customs and rules for polite behaviour, especially among a particular class of people or in a particular profession."
In German Language Etikette is the label with info we found in clothes and in Greek Language also....
Interesting what someone can learn in a snow forum  |
Yes, one of many "false friends". The worst ones are those that may appear to be the same but are actually subtlety different; one of the faves, and I realised this was the same for Italian, German and French is the use of 'actual' (various spellings) to mean current, now, present, up to date, correct. In English it means real, genuine so when I first heard it used on a German radio station I used to listen to in the car, "das aktuellste Wetter" I was a little confused. How can your weather be more actuak than anyone else's? The 'Actual' weather is what I see out of the window, not what someone on the radio is saying, however current and correct that may be.
I then started to notice all the times when colleagues, mostly native in those languages would use it in a way that might confuse other Brits and Yanks, and would generally ensure to clarify if necessary. Lots of other examples, of course, but that one sticks in my mind for some reason.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sun 11-02-24 18:40; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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My Dad used to show us Warren Miller films, particularly as examples of how not to exit a lift, should be standard viewing perhaps?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@zikomo, pass very close when they aren't expecting it...makes them jump! No harm done but it makes me feel better! I do it on the bike too!
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@zikomo, Irresponsible and juvenile I know, but we can't all be model humans!
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@Belch,
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should be shot at dawn
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I am totally with you here!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| gixxerniknik wrote: |
| @zikomo, pass very close when they aren't expecting it...makes them jump! No harm done but it makes me feel better! I do it on the bike too! |
Ok. Except it is not. Ever. If you have a problem with someone have the basic courage to speak up and tell them. It’s weak, and dangerous, to try and exact this sort of “revenge”. Not least as they will have no idea why you did it.
Better to assume people doing impolite or dangerous things simply do not know any better. So help them understand. The exception is when polite and justified confrontation is met with an aggressive response. That should be met with a more robust approach. IMV.
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| zikomo wrote: |
| gixxerniknik wrote: |
| @zikomo, pass very close when they aren't expecting it...makes them jump! No harm done but it makes me feel better! I do it on the bike too! |
Ok. Except it is not. Ever. If you have a problem with someone have the basic courage to speak up and tell them. It’s weak, and dangerous, to try and exact this sort of “revenge”. Not least as they will have no idea why you did it.
Better to assume people doing impolite or dangerous things simply do not know any better. So help them understand. The exception is when polite and justified confrontation is met with an aggressive response. That should be met with a more robust approach. IMV. |
But what happens if that’s then met with a loud “Do you take this further, pal?”
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Snow&skifan wrote: |
| zikomo wrote: |
| gixxerniknik wrote: |
| @zikomo, pass very close when they aren't expecting it...makes them jump! No harm done but it makes me feel better! I do it on the bike too! |
Ok. Except it is not. Ever. If you have a problem with someone have the basic courage to speak up and tell them. It’s weak, and dangerous, to try and exact this sort of “revenge”. Not least as they will have no idea why you did it.
Better to assume people doing impolite or dangerous things simply do not know any better. So help them understand. The exception is when polite and justified confrontation is met with an aggressive response. That should be met with a more robust approach. IMV. |
But what happens if that’s then met with a loud “Do you take this further, pal?” |
Also simple. They are always, and I mean always, playground bullies. Stand your ground. Explain you are not afraid of them. They will literally not know what to do. It’s like watching a slow motion brain explosion.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I have been skiing for many years and for me leaving a lift is what I consider the more dangerous part of a ski day. Common sense tells me sit left peel left, right peel right and central go straight and there will be a natural separation to allow safe movement from the run off after leaving the chair. Sadly I am always aware of strangers on the same lift and will admit I have had to hold my ground when others are trying to go against the grain when leaving the lift, I will add no injuries to anyone.
Just to stir it up a bit should there be separate chairs for boarders! 
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FAQ
