 Poster: A snowHead
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To any pole clickers here, do you believe the skier in front should alter their trajectory/speed as a result?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Snow&skifan wrote: |
| To any pole clickers here, do you believe the skier in front should alter their trajectory/speed as a result? |
This pole clicker say NO.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| abc wrote: |
| Snow&skifan wrote: |
| To any pole clickers here, do you believe the skier in front should alter their trajectory/speed as a result? |
This pole clicker say NO. |
So why click?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Snow&skifan wrote: |
| To any pole clickers here, do you believe the skier in front should alter their trajectory/speed as a result? |
No. The point is not that they should alter what they are currently doing to let you past......but to let them know that you are passing, on the assumption that they will continue doing what they are doing. That should not upset them and make it more likely that the overtaking manoeuvre happens without incident (on a path, with very moderate speeds).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Old Fartbag wrote: |
No. The point is not that they should alter what they are currently doing to let you past......but to let them know that you are passing, on the assumption that they will continue doing what they are doing. |
How on earth is the clickee supposed to know all that? It might be their first week on skis, ever. They cannot read your mind. They will interpret your click as follows:
GET OUT OF MY WAY!
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The only real solution to all of this is go ski somewhere less busy if the cut and thrust of a packed groomer, which everyone has a right to use, is too much for you.
Not that hard to find somewhere quieter if you make the effort.
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| abc wrote: |
People who “believe” pole clickers are being rude and wanted you move out of their way are just reading too much into something that aren’t there!
Pole clickers only mean to say “I’m here”.
Yes, I’m a pole clicker. And I appreciate pole clicking!  |
This for me, I dont think any rudeness is meant by it, more of a just to let you know if you cannot see me.
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| telford_mike wrote: |
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
No. The point is not that they should alter what they are currently doing to let you past......but to let them know that you are passing, on the assumption that they will continue doing what they are doing. |
How on earth is the clickee supposed to know all that? It might be their first week on skis, ever. They cannot read your mind. They will interpret your click as follows:
GET OUT OF MY WAY! |
Between this thread and the other one, I have gone to some length to explain that extra caution/respect should be given to skiers who are obviously Beginners/Nervous Intermediates....and the very rare instances when I would feel it advisable to make it known that I was there.....and it is certainly not "Get out of my way".
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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No, they’re stupid (clicking poles)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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There's a simpler way to make me not change my course 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| andy wrote: |
| There's a simpler way to make me not change my course |
“Simpler”?
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| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| telford_mike wrote: |
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
No. The point is not that they should alter what they are currently doing to let you past......but to let them know that you are passing, on the assumption that they will continue doing what they are doing. |
How on earth is the clickee supposed to know all that? It might be their first week on skis, ever. They cannot read your mind. They will interpret your click as follows:
GET OUT OF MY WAY! |
Between this thread and the other one, I have gone to some length to explain that extra caution/respect should be given to skiers who are obviously Beginners/Nervous Intermediates....and the very rare instances when I would feel it advisable to make it known that I was there.....and it is certainly not "Get out of my way". |
If you can see that the skier in front is a beginner / nervous, why are you even 'there' in the first place? Why should you being 'there' have any impact on how they should behave? If you are a better skier, then be a better man too. Pass safely if you can, but leave them alone, and don’t intimidate them with aggressive clicks.
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You know it makes sense.
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| telford_mike wrote: |
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| telford_mike wrote: |
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
No. The point is not that they should alter what they are currently doing to let you past......but to let them know that you are passing, on the assumption that they will continue doing what they are doing. |
How on earth is the clickee supposed to know all that? It might be their first week on skis, ever. They cannot read your mind. They will interpret your click as follows:
GET OUT OF MY WAY! |
Between this thread and the other one, I have gone to some length to explain that extra caution/respect should be given to skiers who are obviously Beginners/Nervous Intermediates....and the very rare instances when I would feel it advisable to make it known that I was there.....and it is certainly not "Get out of my way". |
If you can see that the skier in front is a beginner / nervous, why are you even 'there' in the first place? Why should you being 'there' have any impact on how they should behave? If you are a better skier, then be a better man too. Pass safely if you can, but leave them alone, and don’t intimidate them with aggressive clicks. |
Pole clicking is largely done for slow going non-beginners. But I can’t tell if you’re nervous.
So if you’re a nervous skier, and get anxious by the clicking noise, it’s your problem. But it’s an open track, you can’t dictate what others do just because YOU don’t like it. Best you go some place where no one will be passing you.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| abc wrote: |
| telford_mike wrote: |
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| telford_mike wrote: |
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
No. The point is not that they should alter what they are currently doing to let you past......but to let them know that you are passing, on the assumption that they will continue doing what they are doing. |
How on earth is the clickee supposed to know all that? It might be their first week on skis, ever. They cannot read your mind. They will interpret your click as follows:
GET OUT OF MY WAY! |
Between this thread and the other one, I have gone to some length to explain that extra caution/respect should be given to skiers who are obviously Beginners/Nervous Intermediates....and the very rare instances when I would feel it advisable to make it known that I was there.....and it is certainly not "Get out of my way". |
If you can see that the skier in front is a beginner / nervous, why are you even 'there' in the first place? Why should you being 'there' have any impact on how they should behave? If you are a better skier, then be a better man too. Pass safely if you can, but leave them alone, and don’t intimidate them with aggressive clicks. |
Pole clicking is largely done for slow going non-beginners. But I can’t tell if you’re nervous.
So if you’re a nervous skier, and get anxious by the clicking noise, it’s your problem. But it’s an open track, you can’t dictate what others do just because YOU don’t like it. Best you go some place where no one will be passing you. |
But what next? A klaxon to clear the way for the experts? If you're a super skier you should be able to make yourself invisible by skiing where others can't. Or maybe you’re confined to the blue run just like everyone else.
GET OUT OF MY WAY! It's the same message, whether delivered by clicks, klaxon or, worst of all in our neck of the woods, ACHTUNG!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| telford_mike wrote: |
If you can see that the skier in front is a beginner / nervous, why are you even 'there' in the first place? Why should you being 'there' have any impact on how they should behave? If you are a better skier, then be a better man too. Pass safely if you can, but leave them alone, and don’t intimidate them with aggressive clicks. |
I have already stated exactly this more than once - and praised DavidYacht for doing so. Maybe read more carefully what I have actually said across 2 different threads and multiple posts before assigning me a position that I do not hold.
In case you didn't spot it:
DavidYacht: Been skiing today in Zell Am See, many more years into my skiing journey and followed someone snow plowing down a the full width of a track, back in the day I would have clicked, now have better skills to slow down, so why ruin her day?
My reply: IMV. You did exactly the right thing...as they were obviously early on in their skiing journey and so deserve to be shown extra tolerance/caution. It is a great example of when to simply hang back and have patience, as pushing past would - as you say - likely have ruined her day.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| telford_mike wrote: |
Clicking other skiers is downright rude. It conveys only one message:
GET OUT OF MY WAY! |
Clearly it doesn't, otherwise this wouldn't even be a discussion. I don't think I've ever interpreted as someone wanting me to get out the way, it's just a sign that someone is there.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Old Fartbag,
And yet you said this:
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| holidayloverxx wrote: |
You should not need to pole click as a last resort. Just slow down even more to create a gap between you and the skier below you. They don't need to know you are there |
Of course you are right and it should not be needed as a last resort....2 or 3 times in 50 years, with no collisions, is not a valid excuse.  |
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Eliminate any confusion over misinterpretation with quick series of blasts on an air horn, or the simple universally accepted scream of "ACHTUUUNG!!"
Normally gets the point across...
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is using a bike bell any different?
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Can’t say I’ve ever encountered it. It sounds rather like when I’m out walking and I subconsciously clear my throat or talk louder as I approach somebody from behind. It’s meant as a “just so you know, there’s a person behind you”, and probably stems from my nervous disposition so I startle easy.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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In Austria I have had a few guys passing me at speed announce Achtung from behind. That is seriously annoying. Maybe they do think it’s helpful but it runs the risk of startling the downhill skier who is simply trying to ski in control.
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I guess my appreciation of a heads up to someone approaching from behind stems from my childhood spent at a catholic school
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@hang11, I'd always imagined "they'd" enjoyed the frisson of a surprise?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Yes. Safety first.
If someone comes faster than me and it's a long narrow segment, his clicks basically ask me to stay on my course instead of a sharp turn that might throw him down/knock me off my feet.
How many times have we all seen people doing sharp unexpected turns?
Those clicks are just like driving late afternoons with your tail lights on. It's better to be acknowledged
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| telford_mike wrote: |
@Old Fartbag,
And yet you said this:
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| holidayloverxx wrote: |
You should not need to pole click as a last resort. Just slow down even more to create a gap between you and the skier below you. They don't need to know you are there |
Of course you are right and it should not be needed as a last resort....2 or 3 times in 50 years, with no collisions, is not a valid excuse. |
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It is in reply to this comment of yours: If you can see that the skier in front is a beginner / nervous, why are you even 'there' in the first place? Why should you being 'there' have any impact on how they should behave? If you are a better skier, then be a better man too. Pass safely if you can, but leave them alone, and don’t intimidate them with aggressive clicks.
boarder2020 wrote: I don't like pole clicking, but I definitely appreciate a "on your left/right" which is a lot more useful.
I replied: This is why I have used the phrase, "Make my presence known / Let the other skier know I'm there", rather than Pole Clicking....Which might involve saying exactly what you said above.
I prefer to know what the skier behind me is intending to do, if it has the potential to impact me (which as Zikomo has said, may be why I might do the same in very limited situations). Being in the right, is of little comfort if you are injured and your holiday ruined.
So there is no "aggressive" Pole Clicking; No intimidating of lesser skiers; and the passage you quoted above shows that "Making my presence known" has been used (successfully) a vanishing small number of times and has resulted in no collisions in 50 years.
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You know it makes sense.
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Rule #1. Don't do anything that causes another skier to react. (Don't be a dick).
If you're uphill, approaching another skier, it's your responsibility to pass them safely and without making them feel nervous/unsafe/less happy.
I see no element of this process where pole clicking or e.g. shouting "you're a knob" helps.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| under a new name wrote: |
Rule #1. Don't do anything that causes another skier to react. (Don't be a dick).
If you're uphill, approaching another skier, it's your responsibility to pass them safely and without making them feel nervous/unsafe/less happy.
I see no element of this process where pole clicking or e.g. shouting "you're a knob" helps. |
Here we go again. Another person ignoring the REALITY of skiing. And what happens if they decide to do some sudden unexpected traverse directly across your line when you were safely passing along the edge of the piste? It basically means no one can ever overtake "safely" on any narrower piste, is that actually practical?
I blame the ski schools for the brainwashing and poor education on this.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Pyramus wrote: |
| under a new name wrote: |
Rule #1. Don't do anything that causes another skier to react. (Don't be a dick).
If you're uphill, approaching another skier, it's your responsibility to pass them safely and without making them feel nervous/unsafe/less happy.
I see no element of this process where pole clicking or e.g. shouting "you're a knob" helps. |
Here we go again. Another person ignoring the REALITY of skiing. And what happens if they decide to do some sudden unexpected traverse directly across your line when you were safely passing along the edge of the piste? It basically means no one can ever overtake "safely" on any narrower piste, is that actually practical?
I blame the ski schools for the brainwashing and poor education on this. |
You’ve answered your own point 
The downhill skier is perfectly entitled to do this. If you cannot pass safely, then it is your responsibility to wait until you can. If everyone adhered to this simple rule, there’d likely be fewer collisions. I really can’t see how you fail to understand this.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Cacciatore wrote: |
The downhill skier is perfectly entitled to do this. If you cannot pass safely, then it is your responsibility to wait until you can. If everyone adhered to this simple rule, there’d likely be fewer collisions. I really can’t see how you fail to understand this. |
But they don't adhere to the simple rule, I can't see how you fail to understand this. The collision stats speak for themselves.
So how about employing simple risk mitigation techniques such as pole clicking? It doesn't hurt anyone and reduces the risk at least to some degree if you know someone is there and passing, to reduce chance of people "closing the door" unnecessarily.
Another technique is simply to quickly glance up when pulling a hard turn across a busy or narrow piste. This should be included in Rule 5 imo as it obviously can result in a collision occurring.
Brainwashed.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Pyramus, what new, extra information does pole clicking impart?
None.
I presume there's usually someone behind me, and in Chamonix usually an unskilled, testosterstoned idiot, skiing faster than me and beyond their control level.
A wee pole click doesn't add anything
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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It makes you aware someone is actually there and passing along the side of you, so I don't decide to pull off some wacky carve right in front of him. It's not rocket science tbh.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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In answer to the original question…. No.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Cacciatore, I thought testosterstoned captured it quite well, but I agree
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I have to say, until that other thread mentioned it, I had never even heard - let alone experienced - pole clicking.
However, as a general point it would feel more polite to either wait and pass when it is safe to do (especially if those in front are beginners / lacking confidence) or actually say something (in the local language and English) to say you are on the right/left?
Similar to being on cycle paths if you approach dog walkers and have one of the bikes with no bell.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| GreenDay wrote: |
I have to say, until that other thread mentioned it, I had never even heard - let alone experienced - pole clicking.
However, as a general point it would feel more polite to either wait and pass when it is safe to do (especially if those in front are beginners / lacking confidence) or actually say something (in the local language and English) to say you are on the right/left?
Similar to being on cycle paths if you approach dog walkers and have one of the bikes with no bell. |
That brings up the issue of:
Is it the act of Pole Clicking itself that's the problem; or is it the act of letting the other skier know you are passing (which may, or may not involve Pole Clicking") that's the problem?
The polarised answers on this thread will depend on how one personally sees the usefulness/effectiveness of any action taken. If you think it can make an overtake safer.....it could be argued that you are fulfilling your duty to pass another skier as safely as possible. If you think it doesn't, is rude, or even worse, unsettle the skier in front - then you take the opposite view.
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| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| The polarised answers on this thread will depend on how one personally sees the usefulness/effectiveness of any action taken. If you think it can make an overtake safer.....it could be argued that you are fulfilling your duty to pass another skier as safely as possible. If you think it doesn't, is rude, or even worse, unsettle the skier in front - then you take the opposite view. |
I don’t think that’s the differentiator. Some people seem to think they have the right/duty to indicate to the person in front of them that they should take a particular course of action to help avoid a collision. Other people think that the person behind bears sole responsibility for passing the person in front of them.
If you need/want the person in front to do something you provide them with some kind of signal. If you are passing them without needing them to take a particular course of action then there’s no need to give them some kind of signal.
We could debate the detail such as whether a pole click is heard and understood, how many people would be startled by an unusual noise from behind them, etc. But ultimately it comes down to whether the uphill skiers wants the downhill skier to take some action or not. Obviously you know what the Skiers’ Code says, and you saw the near unanimous conclusion on the behaviour of the uphill skier in the other thread.
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FAQ
