 Poster: A snowHead
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The people who are so spooked by knowing what's behind them would be well advised to listen to music - which can be a very good antidote to nervousness, especially in horrible weather.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Thomasski wrote: |
| it's not the sound, it's the expectation the sound signifies. Knowing someone is close behind and is planning on going past: what do you do, what are they planning, why are they so close? Beginners and nervous skiers don't need to deal with that, as the uphill skier it's your problem. |
The sound could just as easily be the scraping of ski on snow, the sound of people talking you have the knowledge that someone is behind you. As a skier you have to learn how to deal with that knowledge it is part of skiing.
I have no truck with aggressive overtaking that can endanger the downhill skier but that does not mean they have any right to or expectation of absolute silence.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It's good only if both parties know what is it.
I've been around lots of different places and been overtaken by many skies and have never encountered clicking.
I doubt I'd hear it with helmet on and wind noise.
If I do ever get a chance to overtake someone one day - 'on your left/right' like the guy said above makes more sense. A bit more obvious to the recipient than clicking me thinks.
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| Quote: |
that does not mean they have any right to or expectation of absolute silence.
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hello cat-track my old friend
Its time to overtake again
this guy in front may well be sleeping
at the speed along hes creeping
and my poles that were planted in my turn
now do yearn
to break
the sound
of silence....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
'on your left/right'
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maybe in north america
which language would you propose in the Alps, given the vast array of languages? especially now with big increase in eastern european skiers
just pass safely on whichever side. no need to give any kind of audible warning.
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@Richard_Sideways, lovely 
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@Richard_Sideways, 
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| andy wrote: |
| just pass safely on whichever side. no need to give any kind of audible warning. |
You are missing the point. On a narrower/busier piste, it's not possible to do that if you make an assumption that at any moment, they may pull off some wild unexpected monouvre just as you were passing them.
You may say, then don't pass them. I say, let's get in the real world and overtake them more safely by giving them an indication you are there and passing them.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Pyramus wrote: |
| andy wrote: |
| just pass safely on whichever side. no need to give any kind of audible warning. |
You are missing the point. On a narrower/busier piste, it's not possible to do that if you make an assumption that at any moment, they may pull off some wild unexpected monouvre just as you were passing them.
You may say, then don't pass them. I say, let's get in the real world and overtake them more safely by giving them an indication you are there and passing them. |
Well it is almost always possible and occasionally you may have to wait 30 seconds. I have no objections to pole clicking as outlined above but you should always be able to avoid a downhill skier giving them enough room to do something unexpected.
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| Pyramus wrote: |
| andy wrote: |
| just pass safely on whichever side. no need to give any kind of audible warning. |
You are missing the point. On a narrower/busier piste, it's not possible to do that if you make an assumption that at any moment, they may pull off some wild unexpected monouvre just as you were passing them.
You may say, then don't pass them. I say, let's get in the real world and overtake them more safely by giving them an indication you are there and passing them. |
It isn't made safe by clicking your pole! As we have proven, loads of people don't know how to interpret that or won't hear it. So your pole click doesn't mean they won't close the gap on you. What you need to do is wait until they turn and just then go BEHIND them. It's not hard.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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What boarder2020 said. Makes much more sense.
And not everyone carrys poles but 99% of us have a voice.
Snowboards, snowbladers, snow bikers, para-skiers.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Richard_Sideways, oh, very good!
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| WinBoard2 wrote: |
Not everyone carrys poles but 99% of us have a voice.
Snowboards, snowbladers, snow bikers, para-skiers. |
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You know it makes sense.
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@Pyramus, have you ever considered that the problem might be that you're not a very good skier? 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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the only point that I am missing is that some people are higher up a hierarchy of importance than others, so are entitled to barge and/or squeeze past
oh and the fact that every run is a race - last one to the bottom has to buy the next round
if you pass, then pass safely with space to be able to react
if you can't anticipate the actions of the person in front, or can't react to them changing course, then don't pass
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Poster: A snowHead
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| jedster wrote: |
| What you need to do is wait until they turn and just then go BEHIND them. It's not hard. |
Ahhhh…so THAT is what’s missing from the FIS rules!
@Kramer, never, never could I even contemplate such a proposition.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Origen wrote: |
| The suggestion that a nervous skier would be more spooked by a pole click than by someone shooting past them, however skilfully and safely, on a narrow path seems far-fetched. |
No it is not. As I, and other instructors here have direct experience of this. The main problem is the nervous or lower level skier does not know what the pole click means. Many assume it means they have to do something to stay out of the way of someone behind them. Which makes them feel nervous as a) they don't know what to do to stay out of the way, and b) makes them feel than someone behind them is going to pass close and aggressively otherwise why would they be trying to tell them to stay out of the way. And that distraction/fear actually makes it more likely they will do something freaky and increase the risk for themselves AND the skier coming from behind. So it is inconsiderate to pole click knowing that is has that effect on some people.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The other trick is to go to the very far edge of the piste. Not the safe one, but the one with a drop next to it. Nobody else goes near it and you can just zoom past them.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| T Bar wrote: |
I have no truck with aggressive overtaking that can endanger the downhill skier but that does not mean they have any right to or expectation of absolute silence. |
This is such a spurious argument. Really ridiculous. Of course there are lots of sounds on a ski slope. But pole clicking is something someone deliberately chooses to do in order to communicate to the downhill skier. That is what creates the problem. As I and many others have pointed out. It is the thought that some action is expected as a result of the pole click that causes the issues.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Pyramus wrote: |
| andy wrote: |
| just pass safely on whichever side. no need to give any kind of audible warning. |
You are missing the point. On a narrower/busier piste, it's not possible to do that if you make an assumption that at any moment, they may pull off some wild unexpected monouvre just as you were passing them.
You may say, then don't pass them. I say, let's get in the real world and overtake them more safely by giving them an indication you are there and passing them. |
Please, please stop over-taking people. You clearly do not know how to do so safely. You have the responsibility to only do so PRECISELY if they "may pull off some wild unexpected monouvre just as you were passing them" and you would still avoid a collission. If you don't understand that then you really should not be skiing on piste.
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@zikomo, then 90%+ of people on a busy piste shouldn’t be skiing on the piste.
Ridiculous theoretical argument you are making.
As suggested on the other thread, let’s try an experiment and may I volunteer you try it?
You + busy piste + hard carve perpendicular across the piste for 30 metres.
Repeat this 5 times.
Come back and tell me how many people ended up crashing into you or having very near misses.
I’ll send you some flowers when you inevitably end up in hospital.
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| zikomo wrote: |
| T Bar wrote: |
I have no truck with aggressive overtaking that can endanger the downhill skier but that does not mean they have any right to or expectation of absolute silence. |
This is such a spurious argument. Really ridiculous. Of course there are lots of sounds on a ski slope. But pole clicking is something someone deliberately chooses to do in order to communicate to the downhill skier. . |
The click can just as easily be the sound of something else touching, maybe I ski slower than most but I hear it relatively frequently it does not bother me and frankly it is something to get used to.
If as an instructor you are taking skiers who are put in danger by a sound you are acting negligently . If they are in no danger from the sound they will need to get used to it as it is part of skiing.
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@T Bar, Even more spurious. I think it best to ignore your comments about how we go about instructing though, you clearly have no basis of understanding or knowledge.
If you want to carry on clicking that is up to you. I don't think it is the biggest deal tbh. But I do think, now that you know it does cause issues for some, that you would be inconsiderate to do so.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Pyramus wrote: |
@zikomo
You + busy piste + hard carve perpendicular across the piste for 30 metres. |
That's likely to be dangerous because there will be slower people below on this busy piste! Nor in some hypothetical situation where the "hard carver" was relatively slow compared with the mass ski-cross race they accidentally stumbled into would it be in accordance with Rule 1, because that still applies.
I'm not a brilliant skier but I will (try to) link parallel turns down a steepish road, which means I need to use a lot of the width. Anyone better than me (and not an idiot) will overtake behind me after I go through the fall line or on the opposite side. No matter how badly I mess up, I couldn't collide with them if I tried. I'll do the same to anyone doing stem turns in front of me. If it gets too busy for that to work, then it's time to slow down.
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@zikomo, I haven't said I clicked, as pointed out above I ski relatively slowly and am clicked at.
But I do fail to see what is the genuine issue for some other than anxiety which is common when overtaken for some skiers whether there is a click or not.
I have certainly known people to be spooked by the silent overtake. In both cases it is common enough that folk will have to learn to deal with it
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
Snowboarder audio alert substitute for poles:
1. Old Timey bulb car horn
2. Tuba
3. Slide whistle
4. Maracas
5. Revving chainsaw
6. Shrieking goat (google it)
7. French style police siren
I carry at least 4 out of these at any one time in the backpack anyway. |
Combine the slide whistle with a Herbie Hancock riff and Groove is in the heart could be the new universal ski "awareness" noise. How can anyone not be happy with that?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
Combine the slide whistle with a Herbie Hancock riff and Groove is in the heart could be the new universal ski "awareness" noise.
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I don't have the luxury of poles on my chosen slide-a-ma-bob, but if I did I absolutely know that my tap rhythm would be the start of "Low Rider" but I'd have to time it to start doing the bass bit just as you go past.
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I actually think a big backpack speaker playing the jaws music would be perfect for the approach, and if it all goes tits up then a playback of Morgan freeman reading these rules (never read them myself) that people on here keep talking about, in a calm but assertive manner, would set a wonderful tone for the inevitable argument to be resolved satisfactorily with no threats of violence
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You know it makes sense.
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@Pyramus, I would not be “hard carving” (whatever that means) on a busy piste. Bit least as others have said as those below me would likely be skiing slower, and the fact it is busy means I would adjust my line and speed to ensure anyone below me can make any voluntary or involuntary movement. I don’t think you really understand what safe skiing actually means. Yes in the real world people do stupid things, including attempting to carve in inappropriate conditions. I suspect you are one of them. With emphasis on the “attempting”. I’m not sure that point you are trying to make though.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@zikomo, I think you're misunderstanding me, why are you talking about the skiers below you?
What I am saying is, you, as the downhill skier supposedly can do whatever you want in terms of manoeuvres and not worry about the uphill skiers because the FIS rules (apparently) say that's their problem not yours.
So I'm saying, let's try the experiment like I suggested and evaluate the outcome. It won't be pretty.
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Poster: A snowHead
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This really is SHs wankfest. Clicking poles conveys no information and is therefore self evidently pointless.
End.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| under a new name wrote: |
| Clicking poles conveys no information |
Only if you are deaf or have headphones on.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| under a new name wrote: |
| This really is SHs wankfest. |
It's always a surprise to see unfiltered expletives on Snowheads! Easy to forget until you realise Wankfest hasn't been swapped to 'fiddle-party' or 'whittering-match'. I hope Admin leaves Wankfest for future use...It's a concise term!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Shouldn't it be 'Clankfest' in this context? 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Can't be clankfest because that doesn't allow for composite poles, they're more of a clack
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@SnoodyMcFlude, fiddling about with your clackers again?
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| SnoodyMcFlude wrote: |
| Can't be clankfest because that doesn't allow for composite poles, they're more of a clack |
You don't want to hear my clack, can be pretty loud after a high-protein lunch stop.
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@Richard_Sideways,
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I never dislike knowing someone is behind me about to pass, knowledge is power and all that. Give 'em a wave as they scoot by and enjoy the rest of the day.
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| SnoodyMcFlude wrote: |
| Can't be clankfest because that doesn't allow for composite poles, they're more of a clack |
Metal poles are one thing, but if I hear carbon poles clacking I move immediately to the side of the piste, get down on my knees and bow as the upper class cruise past.
People think we boarders get down on our knees so often in the middle of the piste because we're daft. It's really because we know who our betters are - we're trying our best here to show due deference to you lot, give us a break:D
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FAQ
