 Poster: A snowHead
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| tsgsh wrote: |
| T Bar wrote: |
| @tsgsh, The code of conduct may not prescribe pole clicking but it certainly doesn't proscribe it or making other noises. |
No it doesn't but the question is fundamentally about whether it is courteous to do so given that the code of conduct requires that the overtaker "leaves enough space for the overtaken skier or snowboarder to make any voluntary or involuntary movement". Once that requirement is met, does pole clicking help? |
Personally I do find it courteous as I learn information in a low key manner. It isn't essential though. Others clearly differ but if in addition you give room it is hardly a danger.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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And what do you think about bicycle bells, @tsgsh?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Reading this thread and the various views reminded me of some general questions that I found humorous a while ago ...
| rayscoops wrote: |
i was bored and started looking through what sort of questions the skiers ask, and was quite amused by lots of them.
Any suggestions for replies ?? (In no paricular order)
1 Is it worth a little warm up before you ski or is lugging all your gear to the lift sufficient effort? Or do 'real' skiers not bother?
Answer - warm up before lugging to avoid injury getting into the gondola
2 Visiting my sis in Frimley just after Xmas and need to feed my dendix habit. Where would snowheads suggest
Answer - where the f@ck is Frimley??
3 Dropping 6ft cliffs - My regular ski buddy did one for the first time last year. Of course being a competitive type I quite fancy learning how to do it as well. Suggestions??
Answer - get a board
Parlor answer (becasue he is a grumpy sod  )
the most important thing is the landing. Never jump off anything into an unknown landing zone. What you're looking for is a nice and steep LZ with plenty of room. NEVER jump on to the flat. After around 6' you need a fairly good run out, once you land you'll need some straightline room to find your feet again before you check your speed with some turns. "Winding down the windows" is the most common first time trait, this can really upset your balance. Look to bring your knees up towards your chest and force your hands forwards and down. Before landing extend your legs and then suck them back up to absorb the force. Try not to introduce your knees to your jaw / mouth / teeth / tongue. I've lost a tooth on a measly 15'. Aim to land slightly on your tails and better to have your weight slightly back rather than forwards. It's hard to explain but your weight position as it will vary with height dropped and landing conditions (type of snow and pitch). Once you get above a certain height even top athletes will "back slap" or "back check" a landing, better to land on your bottom or back than your head. It's addictive when you start to stomp landings, it makes you want to go bigger and bigger. It's also silly and an easy way to start putting yourself in hospital...
4 I have a 1 year old Giro G10 helmet that fits perfect and i really dont want to have to buy a second helmet just for the occasional training. As i am just starting out will i really be getting wacked in the face much by the poles?
Answer - what is this thing about skiers and poles, isn't one in each hand enough?? go and enjoy yourself instead
5 Spent an enjoyable evening yesterday practising my snowploughs. Scary how tricky they are to do right! Why do my buttocks ache so much this morning? It must be agony to do a week of skiing like this.
Answer - make sure you never get your drink spiked again
6 Tree wells - any visible signs to look for??
Answer - err ..... trees
7 Is a propensity to sea sickness a detriment to carving
Answer - who cares, the hangover is worse
8 How many types of turn are there
Answer ?????//
9 I need help in spinning from backwards skiing to forward skiing. I'm happy going from forward to backwards but when I try to change back I nearly always catch an inide edge - nasty fall at speed.
help!
Answer - you need help generally, agreed on that point
10 wHAT IS THE BEST THING TO DO IF IT ALL GOES PEAR SHAPED ??
Answer - fall with grace |
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Origen wrote: |
| And what do you think about bicycle bells, @tsgsh? |
I think bicycle bells are useful; I also think they are comparable in the sense that you can compare the two but they are not the same.
Pedestrians and slower cyclists don't generally weave across a path, can look behind without a risk of falling and can easily make space for a cyclist to pass. If those things aren't true, the [faster] cyclist should not be attempting to pass since it would be unsafe. A bell therefore is a warning not to make sudden sideways movements or if a group is taking the whole width of the path, to allow space to pass.
For skiers/boarders it's different: sudden sideways movements are a given and a group deliberately moving slowly and taking the whole width of the piste doesn't occur. If it did I'd be clicking along with everyone else.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| tsgsh wrote: |
For skiers/boarders it's different: a group deliberately moving slowly and taking the whole width of the piste doesn't occur. |
Definitely not true. Not uncommon for a group to stop at the entry to a cattrack blocking most of the width while they dither about route choices or otherwise faff. And certainly not rare to have groups skiing along cattracks side by side rather than in single file.
Lots of people have poor situational awareness while skiing and boarding. Which is the whole reason for the pole click in the first place.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Stopped is different and is in violation of rule 6. I genuinely don't recall the side by side problem but then I'm a once-a-year-if-I'm-lucky skier so I'll bow to your experience. However, that's in violation of rule 1 if it needlessly causes a traffic jam
I think what I'm saying is clicking people who are conforming to the FIS code of conduct should not be needed and might pressure a nervous skier unnecessarily.
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| tsgsh wrote: |
| .. I think what I'm saying is clicking people who are conforming to the FIS code of conduct should not be needed and might pressure a nervous skier unnecessarily. |
I would say that overtaking at all may "pressure a nervous skier". But then obviously it would be safer not to overtake at all.
It makes me nervous to think of the skiers I'm overtaking carry pointy ski sticks.
So never mind the the clicking thing, I want you to stop carrying them at all, because doing so violates my right to not be nervous.
You can click your tongue instead.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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600 BPM! Sure, it's got rhythm, but can you dance to it?
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
| 600 BPM! Sure, it's got rhythm, but can you dance to it? |
The Bus4Dub has been known to emit similar noises. Haven't seen Admin dance to it though.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Quite a few people seem to keep ignoring the fact that pole clicking (and shouting from behind), is very disconcerting for some skiers. Many here have stated that it makes them even more nervous. And a few instructors have also stated how it scares many skiers. As a result some here have decided that because it does indeed cause problems for some, they will stop doing it. I would have thought that anyone who KNOWS that what they are doing creates problems for others would take a similar approach, but it seems not....
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Better to be "disconcerted" than have an unnecessary collision.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
Quite a few people seem to keep ignoring the fact that pole clicking (and shouting from behind), is very disconcerting for some skiers.
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And others keep ignoring the fact that some people find it useful to know when there's someone right behind them.
The only reasonable conclusion seems to be that it is not a very big deal, one way or another, and that you can't please all the people, all the time. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| zikomo wrote: |
| Quite a few people seem to keep ignoring the fact that pole clicking (and shouting from behind), is very disconcerting for some skiers. Many here have stated that it makes them even more nervous. And a few instructors have also stated how it scares many skiers. As a result some here have decided that because it does indeed cause problems for some, they will stop doing it. I would have thought that anyone who KNOWS that what they are doing creates problems for others would take a similar approach, but it seems not.... |
I do wonder about the integrity of instructors who take clients on slopes where they get frightened by a slight noise, frankly in the overall sensorium of things that happen in skiing a slight click is not particularly worrying, if it is should you be there?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I am for pole clicking. In fact in 40 years of skiing, I have always thought it was the thing to do and I am surprised that some people don't like it. If the piste is wide enough, no need for it. Give adequate distance in passing. If it is narrow, especially a track through the trees or the like, I don't overtake. I find I only feel the need to click my poles on a green or blue piste joining track of medium width. And of course adjusting me speed suitably.
I will keep on clicking.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Thu 22-02-24 13:21; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| zikomo wrote: |
| Quite a few people seem to keep ignoring the fact that pole clicking (and shouting from behind), is very disconcerting for some skiers. Many here have stated that it makes them even more nervous. And a few instructors have also stated how it scares many skiers. As a result some here have decided that because it does indeed cause problems for some, they will stop doing it. I would have thought that anyone who KNOWS that what they are doing creates problems for others would take a similar approach, but it seems not.... |
Here's the problem for me. Why haven't people been taught what pole clicking is for by their instructors?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Because instructors teach the FIS code, and not the "oi! get out of my way" code ? 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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So why doesn't the FIS code include pole clicking then? Taught properly, it would cease to be "Oy, get out of my way."
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Thu 22-02-24 13:23; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@TCSC47, 100% with you on this - must be a Brummie ting (joking)
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| TCSC47 wrote: |
| Here's the problem for me. Why haven't people been taught what pole clicking is for by their instructors? |
I think it's because they seem to live and die by the mindset (like many others on this forum) that the uphill skill has entire responsibility to pass them safely regardless of any manoeuvre the downhill skier chooses to make, therefore why would they need to click.
Unfortunately this is not the real world or even practical in many cases. They need to get a big dose of reality I think and teach collision risk mitigation techniques like pole clicking, rather than get on high horses about the FIS rules.
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| Quote: |
So why doesn't the FIS code include pole clicking then? Taught properly, it would cease to be "Oy, get out of my way."
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would need to make snowboarders have poles to click. Least that would shut them up and stop commenting about skiers faffing with poles getting off lifts
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Snowboarder audio alert substitute for poles:
1. Old Timey bulb car horn
2. Tuba
3. Slide whistle
4. Maracas
5. Revving chainsaw
6. Shrieking goat (google it)
7. French style police siren
I carry at least 4 out of these at any one time in the backpack anyway.
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| Pyramus wrote: |
| TCSC47 wrote: |
| Here's the problem for me. Why haven't people been taught what pole clicking is for by their instructors? |
I think it's because they seem to live and die by the mindset (like many others on this forum) that the uphill skill has entire responsibility to pass them safely regardless of any manoeuvre the downhill skier chooses to make, therefore why would they need to click.
Unfortunately this is not the real world or even practical in many cases. They need to get a big dose of reality I think and teach collision risk mitigation techniques like pole clicking, rather than get on high horses about the FIS rules. |
It's the real world for me. I ski pretty quickly when conditions are appropriate and I can always allow skiers in front of me to do exactly what they want without it causing a problem.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
Snowboarder audio alert substitute for poles:
1. Old Timey bulb car horn
2. Tuba
3. Slide whistle
4. Maracas
5. Revving chainsaw
6. Shrieking goat (google it)
7. French style police siren
I carry at least 4 out of these at any one time in the backpack anyway. |
Wouldn't a tuba blend in with all the oompa in Österreich? Best save that for France and Italy - it'll save room in your backpack too...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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And there is always the backup option to yodel.
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| TCSC47 wrote: |
Here's the problem for me. Why haven't people been taught what pole clicking is for by their instructors? |
Because pole clicking isn't anything.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Legend. wrote: |
| TCSC47 wrote: |
Here's the problem for me. Why haven't people been taught what pole clicking is for by their instructors? |
Because pole clicking isn't anything. |
This is evidentially untrue. Maybe you didn't hear them because you had airpods on or something.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
Snowboarder audio alert substitute for poles:
1. Old Timey bulb car horn
2. Tuba
3. Slide whistle
4. Maracas
5. Revving chainsaw
6. Shrieking goat (google it)
7. French style police siren
I carry at least 4 out of these at any one time in the backpack anyway. |
I'd have thought that just shouting "radical, mannnnn" would cover it? Or the sound of those baggy clothes flapping in the wind.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Pyramus wrote: |
| Legend. wrote: |
| TCSC47 wrote: |
Here's the problem for me. Why haven't people been taught what pole clicking is for by their instructors? |
Because pole clicking isn't anything. |
This is evidentially untrue. Maybe you didn't hear them because you had airpods on or something. |
I have a speaker on my back not airpods. They are only loud enough for me to hear.
If I hear pole clicking I assume it is someone challenging me to a duel, much like banging a sword on a shield back in the day. A épée can fit fairly well inside a nicely adapted ski poll.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Pyramus wrote: |
to live and die by the mindset (like many others on this forum) that the uphill skill has entire responsibility to pass them safely regardless of any manoeuvre the downhill skier chooses to make
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If you replace "live and die by the mindset" with "follow the FIS code of conduct that explicitly states that" then you have indeed accurately described the opinion of the overwhelming majority of snowHeads on both of the recent threads on the subject.
Let's not turn this one into one those. This one remains split fairly evenly and is also giving all the snowboarders something to laugh at
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It's a simple thing to try and avoid doing anything which you know will upset people, especially people less able than yourself.
I have never come across anyone who complained that I didn't click my poles before I overtook them. Probably because I only overtake when there is clearly enough room to do so safely (i.e. I won't crash into them regardless of any freaky thing they do). But also because NOT doing so while overtaking safely is simply a non-issue.
I do know that it upsets many skiers to hear pole clicking coming from behind them. Particularly less able and nervous skiers. Who have every right, and the ability, to be in the terrain. I have had students visibly shaken by this practice, and so it seems have the other instructors here.
As I said a while ago, it seems to me that the majority (but by no means all) of pole clickers have the best of intentions. And those who do have those good intentions are quite surprised that it creates issues for others, and are happy to reconsider their approach when they understand that. I will in future assume that the pole click is meant kindly (until proven otherwise), which is my main take-away from this discussion and my mini-poll. But I don't think it unreasonable to question why, when you know it upsets some people, anyone would continue to do it.
The very worst argument for this is that pole clicking is justifiable as it helps to avoid collisions. That is merely an admission that you do not overtake safely, as by default you cannot be overtaking safely if you need the downhill skier to be aware of you/take some action.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@zikomo, Are they complete flowers, many things happen on the slopes frankly the sound of a click is something to get used to. It is not against any rule.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@T Bar, What type of person is a 'complete flower' and why must they adhere to your desires?
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Thu 22-02-24 16:56; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| T Bar wrote: |
| @zikomo, Are they complete flowers, many things happen on the slopes frankly the sound of a click is something to get used to. It is not against any rule. |
You sort of prove my point old boy.
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| Legend. wrote: |
| @T Bar, What type of person is a 'complete flower' and why must they adhere to your desires? |
I don't think anyone has to adhere to any of my desires.
Have I suggested such a thing?
A complete flower is someone who is put into a serious state of alarm by a slight sound.
There is no right to silence on a ski slope.
The only plausible reason for alarm is an awareness that there are others. This may be by a silent overtake which can be alarming to some but others have a right to be on the slope and generate a very small amount of noise which a pole click is if they do wish.
If an instructor believes his or her pupil is liable to be put into a state of alarm by a slight noise why do they take them to places where such noises are not uncommon?
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The suggestion that a nervous skier would be more spooked by a pole click than by someone shooting past them, however skilfully and safely, on a narrow path seems far-fetched.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| T Bar wrote: |
| Legend. wrote: |
| @T Bar, What type of person is a 'complete flower' and why must they adhere to your desires? |
I don't think anyone has to adhere to any of my desires.
Have I suggested such a thing?
A complete flower is someone who is put into a serious state of alarm by a slight sound.
There is no right to silence on a ski slope.
The only plausible reason for alarm is an awareness that there are others. This may be by a silent overtake which can be alarming to some but others have a right to be on the slope and generate a very small amount of noise which a pole click is if they do wish.
If an instructor believes his or her pupil is liable to be put into a state of alarm by a slight noise why do they take them to places where such noises are not uncommon? |
it's not the sound, it's the expectation the sound signifies. Knowing someone is close behind and is planning on going past: what do you do, what are they planning, why are they so close? Beginners and nervous skiers don't need to deal with that, as the uphill skier it's your problem.
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| Quote: |
... and is also giving all the snowboarders something to laugh at
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DEFINITELY this.
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frankly the sound of a click is something to get used to.
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And with that, the Triffids took over...
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FAQ
