 Poster: A snowHead
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| Onnem wrote: |
Not at all, and not a pi$$ing contest either.
Just responding to the question, I don't like posers and braggers either  |
I see. Says the guy that boasted about his speed. Which will not be accurate anyway. And if it is, then your description of yourself is flawed, as you would be a very competent ski racer to ski at the speed at all let alone with any control.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I do very modest cycle trip with local OAPs. Revolves round pub lunch where the gadget-men compare electronic notes. Their data on Strava etc NEVER agree even on the mileage we've all done together. It's always a good laugh.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Onnem, I can trump that. On one ski day my GPS recorded a max speed of over 1000 km/h.
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Even the steepest marked blacks or double diamonds worldwide are not that steep.
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That is very subjective, but they are steep. Take your skis off and trying walking over them without an ice axe and crampons.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Take your skis off and trying walking over them
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Good point. Our local black run, near our apartment, was really NOT very difficult. Would be scoffed at by the hard men. It led fairly straight down, as opposed to a very scenic long 5km blue run, which was a road/path in summer. One summer we walked up the road and my OH, bored at the thought of walking down the long way, voted that we go down the black run. Big mistake. It was really fairly impossible although we had good footwear. We had to retreat into the forest on the side where tree roots gave some footholds, but it was still a mission, and not as enjoyable as striding down the road whilst enjoying the view.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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And there I was thinking it was only Post Office senior managers and judges who didn't understand every day technology.
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| Onnem wrote: |
Not bragging at all; 104 kmh is nice (for me...), but nothing spectacular, I think 20% of skiers can do this. |
100% of skiers can do this, albeit mostly very briefly.
Why is it important for you to try to convince us of how good a skier you are? Why do you think that the ability to go fast is significant? Why are you waving your willy so much even though it's not really very big?
| Onnem wrote: |
| I don't like posers and braggers either |
How do you live with yourself?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Onnem wrote: |
Not bragging at all; 104 kmh is nice (for me...), but nothing spectacular, I think 20% of skiers can do this.
My nephews who are 16 & 18 YO go considerable faster, but don't have a family to feed  |
Yes - and your nephews probably are mature enough to not waste their time trying to convince random strangers on an internet forum what amazing skiers they are. Probably also secure enough in themselves that they don't feel the need to try and measure their speed. Or boast about the "steep" pistes they have "done".
In my experience those who can, do. Those who can't, brag. You seem to be living proof of that.
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Max speed is one of those things you either enjoy, or don't. I don't. Even downhill on a bike, and not that fast at all, makes me uneasy. Those French cyclists absolutely caning it down the mountain passes on a Sunday give me the heebie-jeebies. Driving on an empty straight road it's easy enough to let the speed drift up. I once shocked myself rigid by realising I was doing 100mph on a road across the Karoo in South Africa. But I was very young - that wouldn't happen now, especially on an African road, though I'm happy cruising at 80 (86 briefly when not paying proper attention) on a French motorway. I was a better skier than my husband (had a LOT more lessons) but he really liked the rather tame "measured track" in Les Saisies, where they flashed up your speed at the bottom. And he would time himself down the 5km blue piste down to our apartment. I never had the slightest idea how long it took me - or cared! We had one place where you had to schuss or have quite a stretch of flat. He would always go into the tuck long before me. I always wanted to feel in control, and was also much better at skating across the flat bit than he was.  It's partly a gender thing, I think. I've driven a lot to and from the Alps, often solo, quite often without a stopover, but I could never have told you exactly how long it had taken me!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Maybe @Onnem is writing in a second language and hasn’t quite grasped that answering a ‘straight’ question with a ‘straight’ answer is not the normal way of communicating in English? He does have Netherlands as his abode and communication in Dutch is much more to the point.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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As an idea of how deceptive gradient is, the Boulevard de la Loze in Meribel is a great example. Skiing, it is a gentle blue boulevard.
Try riding up it in the summer on a bike! It is one of the two hardest climbs I have ever encountered and I have 25+ HC climbs under my belt.
The final pitch to the top (ie the start of the descent on skis) hits 20% for about 400m. It is a killer at 2250m altitude. The whole climb fluctuates from Ronde Pointe with regular pitches of 13-20%.
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Some forum visitors do have a strange sense of humour, a bit too sour to my taste.
Yes, I am from the NL. And no, English is not my mother tongue.
I do like anything that goes fast, 105 kmh on skis, 83.4 kmh on my speedsurfing board (look it up on GPS speedsurfing) and 69.9 kmh downhill on my MTB (on tarmac).
I also stated I don't think that this is an extreme performance. My nephews (and others) out-ski me, and Hans Kreisel (BNK speedsurf co competitor 10 years ago) did over 100 kmh in the Luderitz speedsurfing channel.
The only reason I posted my speed is, because I find limits exist in your head only, and age should not limit you.
Can the discussion now go back OT. To resorts wildly exaggerating how steep their black runs are.
Harikiri is black, but NOT spectacular.
Frontside couloirs of Mont Gelé over Verbier, that is spectacular.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Sat 13-01-24 22:12; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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It’s perfectly acceptable for people to challenge themselves with steeper pistes, and no it certainly doesn’t have to be soft because that adds a different perspective that isn’t necessarily needed. And if one is facing a challenge then it is perfectly acceptable to side slip it down the first time, so that the second time you know what to expect. E.g Face in Val d’isere was always something I wanted to do. So I did it first thing in the morning when there weren’t many people on it, so I could wuss it out slowly, but it was very icy first thing and inside slipped a lot of it. When I came down it again an hour or so later when the snow and visibility was better I had a fabulous time enjoying the challenge (for me) and the views. My holiday pals were really pleased for me.
2 others - Mur in Coucheval is probably a middle Red. On trip 2 of my skiing “career” it was a beast, I took it slowly turn by turn and got to the bottom and I was really pleased; a nice Frenchman waiting for his friends at the bottom as I pulled up for a rest say “well done” and gave me a mini mars bar - which I thought was like a gold medal.
Or another extreme, bringing my wife and 9 yr old daughter down a black in St Anton in a whiteout, because there was no other way down (they have since build a lift to prevent the need for this) which we didn’t very slowly turn by turn with horizontal traverses in between across the piste. When we got to the bottom they thought it was the most exhilarating thing they had ever done on a mountain, yet it was the slowest skiing we had ever done, and in hindsight it wasn’t even that steep or difficult - but it was in whiteout and they didn’t know what to expect.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Well if you can ride (or ski) the steepness isn't really significant at all. Seriously.
Or speed. You ride what's in condition, that's it. Those things only matter if you're learning.
If you're on open public piste you can't ride at race speeds, obviously.
Steeper stuff is actually easier, especially for snowboarders in deep snow. Although the deepest stuff isn't the steepest, another thing novices haven't yet worked out....
Straight lining open public pistes... is what teenage male novices do. That they boast about it here... is a bit Dunning Kruger.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
a nice Frenchman waiting for his friends at the bottom as I pulled up for a rest say “well done” and gave me a mini mars bar - which I thought was like a gold medal.
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 There were two runs down to our apartment in Les Saisies - a blue and a black. One day, skiing alone, I decided to do the black, which had a nice, shallow, soft, layer of new snow on the previous day's pisteing. It wasn't a difficult black by any means, a bit steep, but also wide. And there was nobody much around. I'd skied it several times, knew what to expct. A guy the other side of the piste, looking down, as I was. I launched off first and did quite well. The vis was perfect, everything was perfect, it really wasn't difficult but I was still very pleased with myself as I pulled up towards the bottom, where the track across to our apartment diverged from the main run down to the lift. The other skier pulled up along side me. Turned out he was French. He said something on the lines of "well done, you set a good line down there". I was RIDICULOUSLY pleased. It was not a difficult run, the weather was perfect, the conditions were easy. But for me it was a minor triumph. Even down to understanding the French!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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What whitegold says. Resorts change slope colours as they want.
Drei Zinnen, had a nice connecting piste that was red, until from one year to another it became black. Why? Because they build a blue connecting piste to the same lift and no longer needed to downgrade the black to red to give people the feeling that all areas are easily skiable and connected.
Same in other resorts i know.
People focus too much on piste colours, bragging rights, fear, ... while there are so many variables that impact difficulty and have nothing to do with steepness.
Also quitesome bragging going on here... 110km/h.. downhill racers go not much faster on full fis gs skis on iced up empty race pistes. I think your gps plays tricks. 60° downhill, i kknow some very good freeriders who do chutes, but 60° (not 60%), not many. The steepest on piste blacks will be what? 38-45° max max max.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have just looked it up.
Trailforks is a good site for numbers, instead of bragging.
I have skied the tunnel at Alpe d'Huez.
Steepest gradient is 109.3%. This means just a bit steeper than 45 degrees (that equals 100%).
https://www.trailforks.com/trails/tunnel-23422431/
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Whether factually correct or simply imagined, my feeling is the further away from a resort centre, the seemingly more technically difficult a piste compared to its given colour. So a "red" near to resort seems closer in difficulty to what might be a "blue" situated some distance from the resort. Clearly this might simply be within my own mind (a chaotic place at the best of times  )
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I used to use a ski tracking app until I realised that my best speeds were remarkably consistent (and uphill)
I appreciate that 'overgrading' must be frustrating for the harcore, but for the one week a year bunch, of which I am one, inconsistency of grading is a real issue. Lat year was Gastein. Piste map looked OK but many of the reds were WAY out of my comfort zone. Even within the resort itself there was no consistency so a enjoyable ride down one was no guarantee that a terrifying cheek clencher was not in store on the next.
Sounds like whinging but inconsistent grading can be dangerous.
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| obmij wrote: |
I used to use a ski tracking app until I realised that my best speeds were remarkably consistent (and uphill)
I appreciate that 'overgrading' must be frustrating for the harcore, but for the one week a year bunch, of which I am one, inconsistency of grading is a real issue. Lat year was Gastein. Piste map looked OK but many of the reds were WAY out of my comfort zone. Even within the resort itself there was no consistency so a enjoyable ride down one was no guarantee that a terrifying cheek clencher was not in store on the next.
Sounds like whinging but inconsistent grading can be dangerous. |
Same issue re ski tracking app, most days last week my max speed was exactly 35.3 mph. Speed traps are no doubt accurate but the apps must need a minimum amount of data points to calculate it accurately.
In Madonna di Campiglio they have a sign at the top of every piste giving information on length, fall, average steepness, max steepness and sometimes also the max/min width. Eg https://www.neveitalia.it/ski/madonnadicampiglio/fotoalbum/spinale-direttissima. I assume they must do this in some other resorts.
I think this is really helpful for those of us that have to consider these things, they aren’t perfect but are useful.
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The colour of a run bears so little correlation with the actual difficulty that you may as well ignore it. Even for beginners/intermediates it’s probably best not to know as sometimes that can build a needless concern.
Case in point; I took my then 5yo daughter down a black in Zermatt. I knew she could ski it fine so I told her it was a Blue. She was doing fine until my 7yo son excitedly piped up with “Dad, it’s not a Blue, it’s a Black”. I tried to shut him up but, of course, he was adamant as he was right. Suddenly, my daughter started struggling as she was now scared.
So, on balance, I think it’s useful to flag slopes with genuinely tricky sections but ratings based on average gradients are useless.
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| obmij wrote: |
I appreciate that 'overgrading' must be frustrating for the harcore, but for the one week a year bunch, of which I am one, inconsistency of grading is a real issue. Lat year was Gastein. Piste map looked OK but many of the reds were WAY out of my comfort zone. Even within the resort itself there was no consistency so a enjoyable ride down one was no guarantee that a terrifying cheek clencher was not in store on the next.
Sounds like whinging but inconsistent grading can be dangerous. |
I agree with this. I frequently ski with mixed ability groups where I end up leading the group. In resorts I know well I can avoid taking people down slopes with tricky sections but in others it’s a real pain as you don’t want to push people too far outside their comfort zone. I really think the grading should be on the trickiest part of the run … not average gradient or any other averaged measure .
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| obmij wrote: |
| I used to use a ski tracking app until I realised that my best speeds were remarkably consistent (and uphill) |
I think the only decently accurate trackers are Garmins … and, even for them, only if you disable the ‘intelligent’ position tracking and instead have them get a reading every second or less which increases battery consumption markedly.
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Disappointed to note no-one has warned that entering into this discussion one might be stepping onto a very slippery slope...
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