 Poster: A snowHead
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A couple more points - potholes: last summer I had a tyre trashed and alloy wheel bent by a deep roadside pothole. Some roads in Bristol look like the surface of the moon. Question 1 : which causes more damage to road surfaces - a 3 ton SUV or a 1200kg hatchback?
Tyres: the tread on new tyres looks lovely - all deep and black, like chocolate bars. Question 2: where does all that rubber etc go?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| caughtanedge wrote: |
A couple more points - potholes: last summer I had a tyre trashed and alloy wheel bent by a deep roadside pothole. Some roads in Bristol look like the surface of the moon. Question 1 : which causes more damage to road surfaces - a 3 ton SUV or a 1200kg hatchback?
Tyres: the tread on new tyres looks lovely - all deep and black, like chocolate bars. Question 2: where does all that rubber etc go? |
Good luck getting a family of four to the alps including gear in a 1200kg hatchback. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I was talking about potholes, not going to the alps (apologies for thread drift). That trip is perfectly do-able with an 1800kg estate car. Now @ski_free, what's the answer to question 1?
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| caughtanedge wrote: |
| I was talking about potholes, not going to the alps (apologies for thread drift). That trip is perfectly do-able with an 1800kg estate car. Now @ski_free, what's the answer to question 1? |
Really? You think I could get 6 people, and all their gear (each has own skis and boots) to the alps in an estate?
To top it all you stated 1200kg for an estate originally, which you have now upgraded to 1800kg. And compare to a 3 tonne SUV.
I don't think you have much (any) real idea of what different cars weigh. Or the effect of that on roads.
You are just being provocative for the sake of it, hence the lack of interest in responding to your questions.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Good luck getting a family of four to the alps including gear in a 1200kg hatchback.
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A long long time ago my dad drove us as a family of 5 from Durham to Croydon to see our grandmother. A journey of over 300 miles. There were 5 of us in the Austin 7 which I believe weighed 360kg empty. A third of the weight of a modern hatchback. I doubt getting a family of 4 to the Alpes in a modern hatchback would be much trouble. When our previous car broke down a few years ago the insurance company rented us a Fiat 500 L and we 4 adults, plus luggage, plus skis, plus bedding, towels etc. for the remaining 500 miles and back. It's possible
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I could definitely get a family of 4 to the Alps, with gear, in my Skoda Fabia, provided I had a roof box or roof rack for the skis. But not 6!
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@zikomo, have you read my posts?
| zikomo wrote: |
To top it all you stated 1200kg for an estate originally, which you have now upgraded to 1800kg. |
Wrong. I said a 1200kg hatchback, and I was talking in general about the weights of different kinds of cars and the effect on potholes, not taking 6 people to the alps.
| zikomo wrote: |
You are just being provocative for the sake of it, hence the lack of interest in responding to your questions. |
Provocative? Possibly. I'm just trying to get answers from people who choose to drive very large cars when possibly not all of them need to transport 6 people to the alps. As you say, there does seem to be a lack of interest in responding to my questions. I wonder why?
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@caughtanedge, There is no car I can find on sale in the UK that weighs 3000kg. Which is what you stated an SUV weighs. Closest I can find is 2810kg and is indeed an SUV (electric, which tend to be heavier), and the next heaviest is a saloon (maybach) at 2785kg. By comparison my SUV is 2100kg, an Audi A4 estate is 1500-1600kg and an A6 is 1700-2000kg.
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about claiming all SUVs are 3000kg. Because actually NONE of them are.
There is a lack of interest in answering your questions as they were promulgated on a lack of knowledge, simply designed to be provocative. As opposed to the sensible observations and debate from others, much of which I agree with.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@caughtanedge, why do I drive a large car - Land Rover Discovery 4
1. It seats my family (3 adult children) comfortably
2. It can comfortably accommodate adults in the back seats if carrying 6/7 people
3. For the 5 of us it can get all our ski clober in - 4 sets of skis and boots and 5/6 pairs XC skis
4. It can safely tow our caravan - trips around UK and Europe being better than flying off to places
Yes it has more capability than I need, but it does everything else I need it for and nothing else I looked at did.
I know it's a big car, which is why most of the time it sits on the drive and we use 2 little i10s for day to day use.
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1st time driving to the Alps. Taking 2 x smallish children and wife. Getting the Eurotunnel mid-morning on Friday and stopping in Nancy on the way down.
Driving to Flims in a Ford Ranger. It's a big, heavy, 4x4. Not great from an economy point of view but it has a 10 speed automatic gearbox so pretty decent on the motorway.
It is, however, a decent tax dodge.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| johnE wrote: |
| Quote: |
Surprising to hear that you can't get 4 pairs of skis in with 4 passengers.
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I did it with a fiat 500 XL once, but I'm not happy with the skis resting on top of the back seat. The so called "ski hatch" is too small to be of any use and the main design fault of the car is that the rear seats split 1/3 2/3 instead of 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. |
Really? we get four pairs through the ski hatch on our Octavia all the time? We can even get them in the Skoda ski bag with minimal swearing
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I drive a Vito crew cab. Perfect for me, Loads of room for ski kit, mountain bikes. Seems good on diesel and it's reliable.
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You know it makes sense.
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i am amazed no one has mentioned the dogs need boot space yet, personally I think estates are making a come back, some are really nice but is the diffrance between an estate & SUV in size that big?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| zikomo wrote: |
| @caughtanedge, There is no car I can find on sale in the UK that weighs 3000kg. Which is what you stated an SUV weighs. |
Wrong again. I actually said 3 tons. I didn't say 'an SUV weighs 3 tons'. I gave an admittedly extreme example of a car weight, in order to ask if heavier cars do more road damage than lighter cars. A question to which I admit I don't know the answer, but am prepared to take a guess. It remains unanswered here.
| zikomo wrote: |
| @caughtanedge, claiming all SUVs are 3000kg. |
I didn't make this claim. You made that up.
There are people here who have given reasoned explanations of why they need large cars. I was simply saying that there are various well-documented down-sides to the increase in numbers of large cars, but many who have chosen these vehicles (often at great expense) are unwilling to admit to any of it.
I suspect this is rather like having a discussion about climate change with @gored. But that's another story.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@caughtanedge, Wow slippery. 3 ton is 2721kg. So there is indeed one SUV on sale in the UK that would qualify. But it is a lot more than my 7 seat 4 x 4 SUV. You exagerated. You applied the 3 tons to all suvs, by making the comparison. But now of course that is not at all what you meant.
Why, rather than just provoking, do you not just provide us with your insight on the effect of larger vehicles on potholes? If you think it is a problem made worse by SUVs that is interesting, and I would like some more detail on the evidence please. If you don't know, it's ok to just say so. But making wild comparisons of non-existent vehicles is not that helpful.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Whatever makes the potholes, they are a menace. Potentially lethal for a cyclist. The punctures I had to deal with most recently were both caused by the typical "nid de poule" caused largely, I think, by the freeze/thaw cycle and in both cases took FAR too long to deal with thanks to stupidly defective rental cars with no spare wheels. The notion that the designers of these huge cars can't fit in a spare is nonsensical.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Origen, When we bough our last car, I wanted the hybrid. But it is impossible to order it with a spare wheel, as that space is taken by the battery. The version I ended up ordering, the spare wheel was an optional extra at additional cost. It's just nuts, if you get a proper blow-out you need spare wheel. And where we live good luck getting any breakdown service that will take less than 3 hours to arrive.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I don't think there's any point pursuing this as you constantly misquote what I've said in order to justify your disagreement.
| zikomo wrote: |
| @caughtanedge, You applied the 3 tons to all suvs |
I didn't. I gave an admittedly extreme example of a car weight, in order to ask if heavier cars do more road damage than lighter cars. A question to which I admit I don't know the answer, but am prepared to take a guess. It remains unanswered here.
| zikomo wrote: |
@caughtanedge,
Why, rather than just provoking, do you not just provide us with your insight on the effect of larger vehicles on potholes? |
It was a question for discussion. I have no insight or evidence and never claimed to have any. All opinion welcome.
| zikomo wrote: |
| @caughtanedge making wild comparisons of non-existent vehicles is not that helpful. |
See above.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| caughtanedge wrote: |
| I didn't. I gave an admittedly extreme example of a car weight, in order to ask if heavier cars do more road damage than lighter cars. A question to which I admit I don't know the answer, but am prepared to take a guess. It remains unanswered here. |
The damage a vehicle causes to the road is proportional to the 4th power of its axle load: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law
Heavy SUVs will cause significantly more damage to the roads than lighter cars, maybe as much as 8 times. But it's a drop in the ocean compared to heavy goods vehicles which can cause 10,000 time more damage.
HTH
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Jonny996, just to make you smile (or hit your head against a wall) : we own both an estate and a SUV but by incident, not design. The SUV is a 10 yr old Honda CR-V, purchased new as our only car with growing kids that I used to take to fencing tournaments a lot so could take 3-4 kids plus gear easily, take family skiing, mountain biking etc so fit our lifestyle.
However in the last 3 years we became dog parents and husband imported dog crates from the USA. He then panic purchased a pre-owned Skoda Octavia estate after finding out the 2 dog crates wouldn't fit in the Honda. No word of a lie. The irony is that to take us all anywhere requires the estate with roofbox as the crates take up the entire boot space.
So I will be using the Honda this Feb HT without dogs and then we are taking the estate for 2 weeks to Val Thorens at Easter with dogs. Sorry but given the love and joy with our dogs - not sorry 
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@HilbertSpace, Thank you! Thats is really insightful, particularly that the effect of increased weight is not linear.
But as we have learnt all is not as it seems. Some SUVs are not much heavier than some estate cars for example. And the rise of electric vehicles is something I have heard some worrying about with respect to increased stress on the roads. I wonder how much consideration people give to kerb weight when choosing a car?
I must admit to being a bit curious about what @caughtanedge, drives in that regard. Oh and I didn't misquote you. You made the comparison between a 3 ton SUV and a 1800kg estate car, not me. Clearly intimating that SUVs are MUCH heavier than estate cars.
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So, @Snowmadmum, given that your traditional estate does more than your SUV, what are the selling points of the SUV?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Wow slippery. 3 ton is 2721kg.
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3 imperial tons are 3048kg.
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| zikomo wrote: |
I must admit to being a bit curious about what @caughtanedge, drives in that regard. |
I'm not sure anyone else really cares. why don't you PM and ask him. Everyone else can talk about driving down to the Alps and stuff like that
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Wrong again.
| zikomo wrote: |
Oh and I didn't misquote you. You made the comparison between a 3 ton SUV and a 1800kg estate car, not me. Clearly intimating that SUVs are MUCH heavier than estate cars. |
| caughtanedge wrote: |
| Question 1 : which causes more damage to road surfaces - a 3 ton SUV or a 1200kg hatchback? |
The 1200kg hatchback was about damage to road surfaces. I suppose I could have said 850kg (e.g. Citroen C1) but maybe that would be provocative.
The 1800kg estate car was about trips to the alps.
| HilbertSpace wrote: |
Heavy SUVs will cause significantly more damage to the roads than lighter cars, maybe as much as 8 times. But it's a drop in the ocean compared to heavy goods vehicles which can cause 10,000 time more damage.
HTH |
Thanks, that's helpful. There aren't many HGVs in the areas of Bristol where I'm dodging potholes, either in a car, or (more scarily) on a bike. So how much is due to the overall increase in vehicle weights, how much is due to road repair budgets, or lack of? I don't know - I'm asking.
@zikomo, I've been driving various mid-sized estates for years, decades.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We are taking the kids (8 & 10) out of school on Friday for their 1st ski holiday - we told the school the truth and feel alot better about it than asking the kids to lie!
Early tunnel at 6.36 am then long drive south. Hopefully all will flow good on the Friday as it now looks like the roads are alot less blocked up than last week by the Farmers. Route will be Reims, Troyes , Dijon then Bourg en Bresse after that does any one know why the D1504 is showing as closed at Tenay? We have seen a few others mention this route and were thinking of it. ViaMichelin is now showing the D19 instead - anyone know that route? otherwise we may just stay on the Autoroute past Lyon Airport.
Theres alot of chat of traffic flows from Chambery / Albertville on the half term Saturday (10th Feb for us) towards the 3 valleys / Tarentaise especially after 8 or 9 am. We are staying in the Logis Hotel La Table D'Aure, Chamousset which is located at the start of the Maurienne Valley autoroute (between Chambery and Albertville). We are heading for Val Cenis and plan to leave the hotel between 7 and 8 am - does any one know what the normal projected traffic flow is for this route at this time. hopefully we should be ahead of any potential traffic again and get to the resort in good time.
Coming back home there isnt really a plan but whats the traffic flow like on the return Saturday - We are overnighting in Saint Quinten Ibis Styles so will have to leave in time not to arrive too late and we have booked the 1240 DFDs ferry on Sunday to give the kids a chance to go on a very big boat!
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@Origen, So for us I don't think there are many selling points TBH. Interestingly we weren't looking to get a SUV, we had a Mazda 6 estate that died which the SUV replaced: we researched the make first and reliability of Honda (10 years ago) came out high, (the Mazda axel rusted relatively young putting us off another), we didn't like the Honda estate on test driving but loved the CRV model, hence purchasing their SUV.
We have found the advantages for us have been:
1. We never pack the boot above parcel shelf level, therefore a 'taller' boot gave us more space than other mid-range estates, reducing our need for a roof-box. However this has obviously changed since the dog crate fiasco to now using the estate with roof box!
2. We camp quite a bit and the 4WD and clearance have come in handy when navigating rough campsites, whereas we are a lot more cautious with our estate.
3. The back seat has more 'drop' to the floor and more height to the ceiling. Our son is over 6 foot tall says he finds this more comfortable for him when on the back seat over the estate.
4. I do prefer the higher seating position of the SUV.
Would the above make me buy another SUV: probably not but I wouldn't discount it. We have owned very few cars (4 between husband and I over 30 years), buying new and owning until they die (save the Skoda estate), so our next decision may be quite different: if replacing the SUV then probably a small EV, if the estate then probably a van to kit out and live out our van life dreams!
Probably not helpful for anyone making the same choice
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You know it makes sense.
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| zikomo wrote: |
| @Harry Flashman, Audi owner in boasting about his car shock |
Lol. I was answering a question, right down to fuel economy and comfort. Right down to criticising my own vehicle.
But, make of that what you will. Some people will always find a way to have a dig at others, as you have just proved.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| johnE wrote: |
| @Harry Flashman, yes the rise in the number of very big private passenger vehicles is shocking. You cannot call them cars. |
This I agree with. Our car is the size of a small van, and for that reason pretty unpleasant to drive in most scenarios. Its also horrible to insure, and entirely unnecessary for most applications. We are lucky enough to be able to use a small electric car for the vast majority of our needs, and that Nissan is frankly the car i would rather drive in almost every scenario. But 6-up with luggage, on a drive to the Alps, the SUV wins.
The question from the guy who asked was "what do you drive to the Alps and why", not "let's debate whether big cars are bad".
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Poster: A snowHead
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| daveqpr wrote: |
We are taking the kids (8 & 10) out of school on Friday for their 1st ski holiday - we told the school the truth and feel alot better about it than asking the kids to lie!
Early tunnel at 6.36 am then long drive south. Hopefully all will flow good on the Friday as it now looks like the roads are alot less blocked up than last week by the Farmers. Route will be Reims, Troyes , Dijon then Bourg en Bresse after that does any one know why the D1504 is showing as closed at Tenay? We have seen a few others mention this route and were thinking of it. ViaMichelin is now showing the D19 instead - anyone know that route? otherwise we may just stay on the Autoroute past Lyon Airport. |
Have done the route many times. Would not recommend coming off the autoroutes and following the D1504 via Annecy (unless there's a problem on the autoroutes). I normally keep going to Lyon - round the outer ring - then A43 to Chambery.
| daveqpr wrote: |
Theres alot of chat of traffic flows from Chambery / Albertville on the half term Saturday (10th Feb for us) towards the 3 valleys / Tarentaise especially after 8 or 9 am. We are staying in the Logis Hotel La Table D'Aure, Chamousset which is located at the start of the Maurienne Valley autoroute (between Chambery and Albertville). We are heading for Val Cenis and plan to leave the hotel between 7 and 8 am - does any one know what the normal projected traffic flow is for this route at this time. hopefully we should be ahead of any potential traffic again and get to the resort in good time. |
I would imagine the Maurienne valley A43 should be way quieter than the Tarantaise. Fewer fewer people to get in and out of far fewer / smaller resorts.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@daveqpr, I'm on that tunnel crossing.
I'm in a black Vito 2 kids 7 and 9
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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. We are staying in the Logis Hotel La Table D'Aure, Chamousset which is located at the start of the Maurienne Valley autoroute (between Chambery and Albertville). We are heading for Val Cenis and plan to leave the hotel between 7 and 8 am - does any one know what the normal projected traffic flow is for this route at this time. hopefully we should be ahead of any potential traffic again and get to the resort in good time.
There will be little traffic at that time heading up to Val Cenis and the last few kms ( between st michel de maurienne and Modane) on the toll road are currently free due to the landslide closing the non toll route. If you are self catering then you may be better to pick up food at the Intermarche in Hermillon as the supermarkets further up the valley get absolutely blitzed on the weekends.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Snowmadmum, that's interesting. I prefer a higher driving position too - I have a friend with a little MX5, which she loves, but I hate that feeling of scraping my back bottom along the road. I like the "boxy" cars around, like some of the Fiats and the old Toyota Yaris - they seem to have more room. I understand your thing about a "van life" too - we used to have an old Toyota HiAce camper van, which I loved, though we were living in Scotland at the time and it was a bit small for 5 of us when it rained. My son asked one night why, when we had a big house with several bathrooms, we were in a rusty van in the rain with loos 200 yards away. Good question.
My mother camped in the back of our Cortina Estate in Kenya - the other 4 of us in a Combi Camp trailer tent. The Cortina was utterly unsuitable for many of the roads we took it on.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@andmelffion - Last year we left Annecy around 7ish to drive down to Alberville and then on to Val Disere and found the journey was fairly pain free (including a stop at McD in Alberville) . None of the traffic I was expecting.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Harry Flashman wrote: |
| zikomo wrote: |
| @Harry Flashman, Audi owner in boasting about his car shock |
Lol. I was answering a question, right down to fuel economy and comfort. Right down to criticising my own vehicle.
But, make of that what you will. Some people will always find a way to have a dig at others, as you have just proved. |
To be clear it was not a dig so much as a jibe. Because you put the S before the Q7.
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| zikomo wrote: |
| Harry Flashman wrote: |
| zikomo wrote: |
| @Harry Flashman, Audi owner in boasting about his car shock |
Lol. I was answering a question, right down to fuel economy and comfort. Right down to criticising my own vehicle.
But, make of that what you will. Some people will always find a way to have a dig at others, as you have just proved. |
To be clear it was not a dig so much as a jibe. Because you put the S before the Q7. |
Well, that's OK then. Absolutely excuses you from getting personal on an otherwise civilised discussion, where one of the points was on modern diesel engines on a long trip, and whether they were suitable. Sure.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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PS. There's also a big InterMarche in Amberieu-en-Bugey really close to the road - handy for stocking up on French goodies aswell as cheap fuel (currently 1.774E/l diesel, 1.809E unleaded)
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| Baron von chippy wrote: |
@daveqpr, I'm on that tunnel crossing.
I'm in a black Vito 2 kids 7 and 9 |
We will be in a Blue Kia Sportage - it will be packed to the rafters!
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FAQ
