Complete loss of confidence and technique

A snowHead

A big part of the problem is that for most of us there is a year between ski trips. And that as we get older technique becomes more important rather than less. One of the traps that many fall into is assuming that because we have a lot of experience, skiing should always be easy for us. The truth is that experience can actually be the problem, with ingrained poor habits that have been masked by the balance and physique of youth.
My advice:
1. Give yourself a break. By that I mean don’t put too much expectation on yourself, and especially don’t assume you will ski as well/fast as you did on your last day the previous year.
2. First run, every day, including your first, lift the inside ski during the turn. Lift that ski earlier and earlier in the turn. Then concentrate on well executed stork turns. Do NOT have a “warm up” run on a super flat slope before you do this, do it right from the get go. And keep at it until you are doing so with lots of control. I do this (instructor), my daughter does it (ski racer), so if anything you are showing how pro you are so feel and act proud about it.
3. Do not over-terrain yourself, or put yourself in the position where you feel the need to push yourself to keep up with others. If that is the bode with your group then either negotiate a different approach with them or ski with another group (or alone for that matter).
4. The joy of skiing is that technique is a journey not a destination, there is no point where anyone reaches the “perfect” level. Instructors and pro-skiers all spend time training, and so should recreational skiers. If you see it is a positive to work on your technique and enjoy learning, then lessons can add to your holiday time.

Good luck!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Another reflection. Getting onto the "intermediate plateau" is relatively easy just following an instructor or coach's movements. Getting off it is much more difficult and requires much self analysis as you ski. One needs to be able recognise what is good happening under the feet and skis and what is bad. And then work from all the instructor/coach's tips, drills and exercises which is going to be appropriate and try to apply it. One will probably find that difficult during a mates holiday. And really one can only concentrate on one drill per run. A classic is arm/hand position/pole flick. It is too easy on a Green flat run just to let the arms drop by the side and coast. It is also easy to hold the arms where they should be and go through the motions of a pole plant using the wrist joint. This builds up muscle memory and your arms then just know what to do.
This works. After 9 years telemark, if I'm with say a Snoworks All Mountain course and doing some alpine drills, eg stork, I find it really difficult to do and my legs just go telemark. I have to concentrate really hard to get the legs to do the drill. After a couple, it gets routine again.
Rob of WSSA said if it doesn't feel good after the first couple of turns, stop, rethink, reset and try again. There is nothing more confidence sapping than pressing on and it just feels not good.
If you are pressed for time on skis and can't get to a UK slope, an ice rink will suffice. Great for leg work out, developing a secure balance and feeling comfortable with weight on just one skate.

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Not headphones (controversial) but singing is well known as a psychological technique to stop you worrying in sports. You concentrate on the song, your body is not tense, and muscle memory takes over.

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

Incidentally, you can now get 'ear bones' that send high quality sound to the auditory nerves via conduction, rather than sound waves. This means that your ear holes remain fully open to cries of "Not that way Dave!"

@Crosbie, those have been around for ages (I think I saw my first pair around 1998) but only relatively recently have they become really good. I have these for gym/running and I'm very happy. https://fr.shokz.com/products/openrun - also less likely to drop down the loo on an Easyjet flight than earbuds Embarassed

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My own ear buds have a "speak through" thing, where they configurable can transmit voice whilst muting the music. Handy on chair lifts, less so if you have a tendency to sing along to your tunes (because that pauses the music). To me the dance analogy is good.

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Totally get your fear. I had a bad fall 2010 and it took 3 year to go again and I needed 3 private lessons to get my confidence back. I then skied really well better than ever to be honest. However I use a metal sided knee brace to stability to ski

But for the last couple of years (I’m mid 50’s too) I have consciously made an effort to ski easier runs. I last did la Face in 2019/20 season and scared myself xxxxless. I got down but realised I hated it.

Last year we just did blues and some reds and enjoyed ourselves so much until we were daft and did one short black and I fell badly and screwed my knee again.

We have booked for Jan 2024 and will take all pressure off myself. We know the resort (3 valles) and can get round the whole area on blues. And if my knee gets tired I can rest.

Your confidence went skiing with those who you felt you had to keep up with. Forget them. Go to enjoy blues/greens and the views and the atmosphere. If you fancy a red fine, but the more you ‘analyse’ your skiing the tighter it will be. Stick to your comfort zone for a holiday. That’s my personal advice. It’s meant my holidays are far far more relaxing and don’t result in temper tantrums and tears

Someone once accompanied our group of experienced piste skiers (reds max) on a ski week, and was perfectly able to keep pace, and cope with all and everything, until the morning of day 4 there was a red with a bit of an icy, steep, mogully 'black' start. After a minor tumble there, their confidence was completely shot, and they skied like an early intermediate for the rest of the week. Indeed, they thereafter declined invites to join in subsequent years. Sad

You know it makes sense.

It's many years since I skied with someone I didn't know but there was a period when I did a few group trips where people didn't know each other. A discussion about abilities and desires was always had. And suitable groups made up and decisions on what/where to ski made. And waiting/nursing people through was always part of the agenda.

I remember once skiing Tunnel in ADH with a friend who was a lot less experienced. We discussed a lot beforehand and I made sure we skied it late morning when the snow was softened but they were still fairly fresh. And time was taken. They really enjoyed it and felt a good sense of achievement. I'd hate to think I caused anyone to have a crisis of confidence and stopped them enjoying their skiing.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

Ben Langridge "Speed masks Precision"

A snowHead

I got a bit of advice when I would get tense, which would also cause me to take the back seat, sing, because your singing something to help with your flow and connected turns, and are concentrating on the tune, you begin to relax, not sure if it will help you but sometimes we are our own worst enemy when we start to over think things.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@Dave of the Marmottes, moguls aren't an issue if you're skiing them properly!! [/drift]

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@Dave of the Marmottes, to be fair to the group I was skiing with I was filling in on the trip for someone who was injured, and therefore I had no idea how good/fast they were and vice versa. And they were a lovely bunch too. And I definitely got far more tired than they did (making 30 turns to their 5 or 10...). Don't think the icy/poor vis first run of the day helped my confidence much though...

On a separate point, a lesson with InsideOut sounds like a good birthday/Christmas present.

@biddpyat, don't know what song it would be though. Currently thinking Liberator by Spear of Destiny or You Got Good Taste by The Cramps

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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@colinstone, looks like you're a big Rob fan at WSSA. I did a week of exam prep training with him in April and really rate him too.

He'd probably be very good for @dobby as he's great at setting up and maintaining a positive mentality within the coaching, and that would definitely help with confidence.

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@swskier, I did a week with him in Saas Fee Sept 2010 and still refer to his tips. We enjoyed the "dropping the hip 100x into a pillow" on a hotel room wall for angulation. Very noisy!!
Yes, I think he would be great for @dobby.

After all it is free

Drills in an snowdome - slowly! Any fool can bat down a slope fast with poor technique. And seek out RobRar - fastest way to get rid of any movements that hamper your improvement.

At the risk of sounding like another Inside Out groupie, one of rob@rar's great skills is in giving feedback. He tells you one important thing, and explains, and then sees how you are doing. Most of us can't think about too many things at once!

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@pam w and others, thanks for the recommendations.

I think a sudden and lasting loss of confidence is a different thing to a situation where you lose it because you find yourself well outside your comfort zone and it takes a bit of time and some easy terrain to regain your mojo. I think we've all had the latter situation (I had a 'moment' last winter which definitely unnerved me and I needed the rest of the morning and a rum-laced chocolate to steady things), but if that sudden loss of confidence lasts beyond that holiday in to the next there's probably something more significant going on. I don't think physical strength or fitness is the issue in the mid-50s, excepting serious injury or illness, but I think the majority of us are more cautious and recognise risk in a different (more realistic?) way compared to when we were in our mid-20s. So if that different perception of the challenges of skiing comes at the same time as being well outside of your comfort zone I think it can cause a catastrophic loss of confidence which goes beyond a single episode where we freeze up, and is probably more difficult to address.

Although we're all different psychologically, the common factor in people losing the confidence they previously had is a mismatch between skills/control they have available and the challenge of the skiing they put in front of them. It seems glib to say, but I think the solution seems to be either improve your skills and control, or reduce the level of challenge. I think the key to this is to be able to apply the skills you have in ever more challenging situations, but this isn't restricted to experienced skiers, this is something all skiers have faced no matter what level, from their first day on skis. It maybe that a distraction technique such as listening to music or singing works (I sometimes suggest to less experienced skiers that they count their way around a turn as a way of improving their turn shape), but I don't think that's right for everyone. Does that distraction help you to make the core movements required to exercise control in a challenging situation? When I got in to a difficult situation last winter forcing myself to sing while I put together 20 turns down a steep pitch would have led to disaster. What I had to do was mentally rehearse the key movements I needed to make and commit to making them. I had to be very focused, not distracted. What I think works well, and what I try to teach, is to understand very clearly what the key movement patterns are; understand what the key changes you need to make to those core skills to ensure control in a range of contexts, and then to identify one maybe two things which you must focus on so that the rest of your skiing all hooks together. Then fully commit to doing those one or two things.

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Back to basics.
Probably been said but hands (holding tea tray position) and forced pole planting is key. I think correct hands leads to your skiing position being balanced and shins leaning into the tongues of your boots.
Pole length - maybe try 5cm shorter, lets you get lower (bend zee knees).
Well fitted boots probs at least 100 flex.
Use shorter skis with a decent parabolic shape, waist not wider than 74mm as you're a piste skier and traditional camber, forget the rocker shapes.
Make sure skis are properly tuned up.
Trust the ski parabola shape to let you carve turn, resist the skid turn.

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@Klammertime, I agree with what you say, except why resist the “skid” turn? Like all other turns it has its place and takes skill to execute well. Carving is not the be all and end all, and neither is it appropriate (or possible) in all circumstances.

Help!!

Complete loss of confidence and technique

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