Hope that a few Snowheads may be able to help me out on this one. Until last year, I was completely happy skiing reds and easy blacks, in a rather slow but totally controlled manner. For reference, I've skied ADH, Tignes and Val D'Isere and happily skied most of the reds in those places (and could just about get down La Face). Went skiing last year in Flaine and Trysil and it all went to rats. Completely lost my confidence and technique - I could not get my weight forward for love or money, and consequently could not ski anything steeper than a blue (or easy red in Trysil). I'll hopefully be going back to Trysil this year and I'd like to get back to something like my old self (caveat on being mid-fifties and not being quite as fit as I was, although pretty good for someone my age). Any helpful tips and hints gratefully received.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Private lesson?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
If you're near an indoor slope, maybe some lessons. Inside out are very good at Hemel. They're on here, too. I think you need to go back to basics and build that confidence back up.
A private lesson might help - I would have thought in resort rather than a fridge.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:
Something must have changed surely?
This. Boots?
While in resort is clearly more "real world" good indoor lessons might at least point towards a path?
After all it is free
After all it is free
If going down the private lesson Id do it in resort rather than in a dome, so you get a real slope experience in length of run variety of gradient etc, other real world externalities, all the things a dome is not great at providing.
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But a lesson in a resort involves all the expense and commitment of booking a full-scale holiday. And if the OP has completely "lost it" that could be a traumatic experience, especially if others are involved.
A session with a good instructor in a dome is a much more limited outlay, and will help @dobby to decide whether to take the much bigger step - psychologically and financially - of booking a holiday.
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Being fat and old ends many a ski career.
Shed some pounds.
Do balance training.
Ski where there is no ice or boilerplate, such as Japan or California.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
thanks all for the comments. Bit of context. The trip to Samoens/Flaine last year was with a group of far better (and perhaps as importantly far faster) skiers. I think that the technique and therefore confidence went to pot while (vainly) trying to keep up with them. The technique really went to rats on anything vaguely steep (red). I completely lost trust in the process, back-seated it and fell over. Had a lesson with some old esf boy - managed to follow him down a red quite easily. Then completely lost it again when I tried to ski it on my own. This carried on to my trip to Trysil where I couldn't go down anything steeper than a blue. Nothing else has changed.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Concentrate on skiing with good technique, good balance, good weight distribution and good body shape etc at low speed on easy slopes. If you are unsure what that entails then you need instruction. You can only gain Confidence when you have enough Competence, you will become much more competent if you are able to relax and concentrate without being terrified of what is going to happen if you get it wrong.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Another, possibly rather defeatist, point of view (Weathercam would chide me) is that as we get older, most of us do lose some physical ability, and certainly balance (Whitegold is not wrong about the need for balance exercises - I'm acutely aware of that after trying to do some simple balance exercises yesterday and falling over, knocking over a room divider and hurting myself a little).
It sounds as though your decision to holiday with a more competent, and faster, group, was an error. It's awful feeling that you're the slowest and holding people up. Find some older, fatter, friends.
And have a lesson in the snow dome with Inside Out.... with video feedback so you can really understand where it's going wrong - and right.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Whitegold, balance training sounds sensible (my wife only half jokingly once said I had the strength of an ox, and the same sense of balance). Not fat, but certainly not as fit as I once was. @pam w, I'll be joining you with the falling over exercises soon
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@pam w,
Quote:
trying to do some simple balance exercises yesterday and falling over, knocking over a room divider and hurting myself a little
Oh no, hope you're OK. I always stand near a wall, so that I can put a forefinger out (that's usually all that's required) to steady me. I don't do that in my Pilates class, but there are no obstacles there if I fall over.
Quote:
t's awful feeling that you're the slowest and holding people up.
I've become a bit paranoid about this, to the extent that I've stopped doing stuff I'm perfectly capable of eg tackling most black runs, in full control if at a slow speed. I keep reminding myself of the tortoise and the hare, but still worry about holding people up.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
dobby wrote:
thanks all for the comments. Bit of context. The trip to Samoens/Flaine last year was with a group of far better (and perhaps as importantly far faster) skiers. I think that the technique and therefore confidence went to pot while (vainly) trying to keep up with them. The technique really went to rats on anything vaguely steep (red). I completely lost trust in the process, back-seated it and fell over. Had a lesson with some old esf boy - managed to follow him down a red quite easily. Then completely lost it again when I tried to ski it on my own. This carried on to my trip to Trysil where I couldn't go down anything steeper than a blue. Nothing else has changed.
Well, I think many have bitten off more than they can chew on occasion and had their confidence knocked. This sounds like a bit of a severe case.
Personally, I've managed to re-establish myself reasonably quickly by going on "confidence boosting" runs for a while. I can't say that it's been a long lasting problem.
The fact that you had a private lesson and it didn't help is concerning. I do remember someone asking about and a discussion about ski instructors that are more attuned to the mental side of things rather than or aswell as technique. But it seemed that they were few and far between.
Ultimately confidence comes from technique and experience.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:
Oh no, hope you're OK
Yes, I am, thanks. I was initially shocked and had that instantaneous thought about "Am I going to break something" before it all came to a halt and I realised I was fine. I felt a bit tearful and pathetic, but then realised how funny it was. A bit like the time I tripped over my yoga mat and smashed my glasses and my nose.
I had been shocked to find myself unable to do a very simple exercise - kneeling down and standing up again, with nothing to hang on to. I could do it fine, leading with my left leg (i.e like a left foot forward lunge) but was absolutely terrible leading with my right. Especially getting up from kneeling, putting the right foot forward. As I discovered. But I am going to keep doing it (with something nearby to hand on to if necessary) until both my legs are equal. then try to improve both.
Balance exercises are critical for older people - even walking along a perfectly OK cliff path with my sister last week I felt a bit vulnerable. Going DOWN the path was particularly difficult unless the surface was really good. I realised that I must keep working on the balance.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@pam w,
Quote:
I tripped over my yoga mat and smashed my glasses and my nose.
Quote:
kneeling down and standing up again, with nothing to hang on to.
Is that a balance exercise? For me, it's a 'will my bloody knees do that?!' exercise.
@pam w,
Quote:
Going DOWN the path was particularly difficult
I empathise with that, but it's my wonky eye that's the culprit, I think. If I go on a proper hike, though, I pretty much always take a walking pole, and have done for years. no shame in that, I think.
I’m told doing “core strength” exercise will help balance significantly.
of course - you need your core to be able to balance.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Yes, it's a combination of a number of things which naturally decline as you get older - and they're all related to confidence. Lack of any of these facilities tends to affect the others.
But balance exercises are simple enough to do - we just need to remember to do them! I always stand on tip toes waiting for kettle to boil for my morning tea. And when I clean my teeth in the morning I stand on one leg alternately for the 4 x 30 second intervals it gives me. I find when I clean them in the evening that even one glass of wine impairs my balance, so I choose to do calf stretches in the evenings.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@pam w,
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@dobby, people tend to go from one slope to another on a day out.
This doesn’t give you a direct indication of progression.
Have a morning on the same slope and repeat it over and over with a gentle
Increase in pace.
That will build confidence that you have improved and then this understanding will give you confidence on the next set
Of slopes.
Practice balance in a “full” turn.
Instead of going faster with them with probably big fast Turns, on a steeper part do more turns down the slope with that tight control.
Finally, they probably set off first meaning when you catch up they are then off again. They will have had a small rest but you get knackered legs (and go in the back seat) because you don’t have a break. This makes the confidence go down. So head off first with your short turns.
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I had a small version of that last season. Annoyingly I was with someone with much worse technique than me, but also far less concern for his own well-being. It all came to a head when we took a wrong turn and the only way down was down a very steep red with a *vertiglace* barrier at the top.
My mate just chucked himself down it, whilst I completely bottled it and slip sided down the edge. The remainder of the week I was paranoid about any ice.
For me, what sorted me out was a trip with my family to the same resort a few weeks later. My daughters are better than me. My son about the same (he’ll overtake me this year) and my wife is definitely the worst. None of us puts any pressure on the others and we all make our own sweet way down slopes.
I took the l time that week to really just concentrate on my own skiing, just doing runs I really enjoyed and trying to do them better and better each time. By the end of the week I was tanking it down everything. Then earlier this year, I did the Yeti in Les Gets for the first time (well, the first time from the very top) and absolutely loved it.
What I’m saying is, sod anyone else that’s faster than you. Concentrate on your own game. But also do the exercises and lessons that everyone else is suggesting!.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Agree with all the advice about not worrying about the speed of those you're with. I can't imagine mates leaving you behind, they'll just have to wait longer, and that's not a problem.
Also agree with @Chris_n on mastering it on an easier slope. Personally I really like a stork turn (lifting the inside heel up)
You can only do this if you your weight in a decent place, and weight on the downhill ski. If you can master this on an easier slope, it'll really help with anything steeper.
Some should counter rotation will help, not necessarily having them facing completely down the hill, but at maybe a 45deg angle compared to the direction of your skis, this can help get the weight over your outside ski.
Practise on easier slopes and mastering things, then moving on to steeper gradients will be the key.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Hurtle wrote:
Quote:
t's awful feeling that you're the slowest and holding people up.
I've become a bit paranoid about this, to the extent that I've stopped doing stuff I'm perfectly capable of eg tackling most black runs, in full control if at a slow speed. I keep reminding myself of the tortoise and the hare, but still worry about holding people up.
Hah. You need to switch your head around. I'm very often the slower skier on steep sections, by choice, where I'm trying to dictate a suitable pace for the group. They won't learn anything from going hell-for-leather down the fall line, but if you are doing nice slow controlled turns take heart from the fact that you're probably skiing much better than they are!
Of course, there may come a point at which I let go and leave them in my wake, but that's another matter entirely
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Whats with the old age stuff? @dobby, says he's mid-fifties. He's hardly going to turn into some old dear who can't stand on his own two feet from one year to the next.
@dobby, how good was your technique before? How many weeks have done and how much instruction.
If it was only just good enough to get around "slowly but in control" then it could be trying to keep up with your mates, has introduced/exacerbated critical errors that you don't have the basic skill to find your way back from.
I'd say only lessons will get you sorted if that's the case.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
swskier wrote:
Agree with all the advice about not worrying about the speed of those you're with. I can't imagine mates leaving you behind, they'll just have to wait longer, and that's not a problem.
Some should counter rotation will help, not necessarily having them facing completely down the hill, but at maybe a 45deg angle compared to the direction of your skis, this can help get the weight over your outside ski.
Practise on easier slopes and mastering things, then moving on to steeper gradients will be the key.
Hold your poles across the back of your wrists, keeping them on the downhill side of your body while you ski to help with this, you will be concentrating so much on not dropping them you will not overthink about your feet and it will just work. You can even do this exercise on reds (slowly) , it will help calm all of the unnecessary upper body movement that often causes balance / overturning issues that cause the type of problems you describe.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@adithorp, a few weeks (20'ish I guess) with a few weeks of group lessons including a week with snoworks (where I discovered my distaste for off piste ). Technique was OK - I could ski reds in (what I thought was) a reasonable manner - not traversing, small ish turns, but nothing flashy. I must admit that I do not have a naturally good sense of balance, so I'll work on that, and I now have a tendency to get very tense/scared when faced with anything that is even a little steep. @swskier, that drill looks useful - thanks.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Faster does not mean better
Speed hides a multitude of flaws
Slow is pro
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
What I found helped - Don't think of getting your weight forward, but pulling your feet back underneath your hips...especially at the start of the turn and on steep slopes.
Stork Turns mentioned above are really good. If all your weight is on the U/Hill prior to turning, it really forces you to commit Forwards and Across at the start of the turn.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
swskier wrote:
Also agree with @Chris_n on mastering it on an easier slope. Personally I really like a stork turn (lifting the inside heel up)
You can only do this if you your weight in a decent place, and weight on the downhill ski. If you can master this on an easier slope, it'll really help with anything steeper.
I love a stork drill, and it comes quite early on in the routine I set myself at the start of any ski trip. First run of the first day is with boots completely unclipped, second lifting the inside ski on every turn, and third doing stork turns. By the time I've done those my weight is balanced across my feet more or less the way it should be.
I have found over the years that a “just good enough” technique combined with youthful confidence and good muscles really lets you down as you get older, as the latter two ingredients wane.
I was hugely supported by an instructor who simply taught me how to stop, after 35 years of skiing. Because he taught me the details properly, so I no longer relied on my balance and my muscles. And once I could stop easily, ANYWHERE, I was no longer nervous.
See if that works for you.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Tortoise/Hare. I'm the tortoise, telemark on piste, but not by too much, in a harer alpine group, in early Dec each year, so my legs definitely feel it early. I check with the direction of travel and just set off 30 seconds before the others and they catch up and overhaul. Once in the powder, it is fine.
In the last 2 or 3 seasons, getting my hips forward has made a huge difference to both performance and combatting leg fatigue. It is almost imperceptible - only a mm or 2 - but instantly that carefully designed ski waist and camber are doing the turns, carving and skidding, from my weight and not my 69 year old leg muscles. Before I set off, I run through Rob of Warren Smith Ski Academy mental checks - ankles flexed forward in boots - not trying to flex the boot cuff but just making sure my ankle is flexed in the available space, (don't have too tight clips), then knees, hips up and forward, activate core, shoulders rounded, hands forward, head up - "ski like a king", and finally SMILE - GO.
A tip for lessons. Have a notebook. Each evening think through the day while it is fresh/pre beer, write down what the instructor was getting you to do. Add a comment on what was good and otherwise. I read back through my notes and often go back years later, remind myself and repeat the drills.
Good luck.
Ski where there is no ice or boilerplate, such as Japan or California.
You’ve never skied Japan or California have you?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
In my experience, after progressing to 'advanced intermediate' I'd find that at the start of a week's ski holiday, blacks were rather tame for the first couple of days. I could whizz down them in a most relaxed manner ('god-like'). Day 3 I'd start thinking "This is fricking dangerous. I need to be a bit more careful". I'd then rein-in the horses and be a little more restrained. This 'health & safety' concern then impacted my stance and meant I wasn't so competent on the blacks. Before you knew it, I'd find reds were my limit.
The antidote to over-caution is to have the 'On Her Majesty's Secret Service' theme tune playing in your earphones - that'll get you going!
After all it is free
After all it is free
I do think that some inspirational music can help
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Cue somebody suggesting this is criminally negligent.....
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pam w wrote:
I do think that some inspirational music can help
Believe it or not, but I did indeed once have OHMSS blaring in my ears as I descended various pistes in Meribel.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
But I am going to keep doing it (with something nearby to hand on to if necessary) until both my legs are equal. then try to improve both.
). Technique was OK - I could ski reds in (what I thought was) a reasonable manner - not traversing, small ish turns, but nothing flashy. I must admit that I do not have a naturally good sense of balance, so I'll work on that, and I now have a tendency to get very tense/scared when faced with anything that is even a little steep. 
