Snow Factor - Demolition

A snowHead

Is this the first of many? No facts or figures, just waffle.

"Scotland’s only indoor ski slope in Glasgow is to close permanently.

Snow Factor, which boasted the “longest indoor real snow slope in the UK”, was initially closed “until further notice” in 2022.The snow sports centre appointed administrators on November 4, 2021, and liquidation proceedings began late October 2022.

Matt Beddow, representing XSite Braehead, said the decision came after the Braehead Leisure Partnership concluded that the poor condition and age of the facility as well as rising costs made it “unviable”. the 'longest indoor real snow slope in the UK'.

The snow sports centre appointed administrators on November 4, 2021, and liquidation proceedings began late October 2022. Matt Beddow, representing XSite Braehead, said the decision came after the Braehead Leisure Partnership concluded that the poor condition and age of the facility as well as rising costs made it “unviable. Snow Factor claimed to be home to the longest indoor slope in the UK.Snow Factor/Xsite Braehead
Snow Factor claimed to be home to the longest indoor slope in the UK.
“Moreover, the underlying environmental impact of keeping eight million litres of snow and ice – equivalent to three Olympic sized swimming pools – at low temperatures is a significant sustainability concern for us all,” he said. Mr Beddow added that the business is hoping to focus on the future, and is working to reopen the space as a new and “thrilling” attraction with a wide appeal."

A snowHead

Already a thread on this subject
https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=158158

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I'm not sure I'm seeing anything in the reports about Demolition. Yes, they're removing the slope but they also say

"We are working on options to reopen this amazing space as a new and thrilling attraction with a broad appeal."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-66993669

Mods might want to merge this thread with the existing one.

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@haggishunter, I wonder if any of the refrigeration plant and snow blowers can be salvaged for use as spares in other snowdomes (I believe all the other UK snowdomes use the same snow making technology apart from the first UK snowdome at Tamworth which as I understand it essentially uses an ice making plant and the ice is then shaved off to make the snow).

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@Alastair Pink, thinking of buying them and building your own slope?

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@ster, whilst the idea of having my own slope (sHs would of course be welcome to use it snowHead

) has a certain appeal, I'm afraid my finances would preclude that.

After all it is free

The Tamworth setup has some advantages, for one the main slope does not need to be and isn't kept at sub zero temperatures. IIRC the main slope is kept around 3-5ºc. For any given level of insulation that is in itself probably a not inconsiderable energy cost saving.

It's a shame this business couldn't be saved, but from reading on the other thread, it seems that there were just too many unusual circumstances surrounding this one in particular, especially with the issues over actual ownership.

But I was wondering about the practicalities of re purposing this existing building, or any others built for the same purpose ?

I've never been to this slope, so didn't know what design it was. A quick look at the site shows that it is of a similar construction to Cfe. ie the slope is supported on a stilt, which would not lend itself to many other practical uses. (maybe a cinema, or concert venue, but probably too steep, long and narrow to be practicable-even if you could fit seating). Probably crap acoustics anyway.

Most likely the most efficient use of the space would be to demolish it and built something else for a particular purpose, which would also vastly reduce the ongoing costs of maintenance.

Hopefully it will be of some public access sporting or entertainment venue, rather than just fast food outlets

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

There is already a large cinema and lots of food outlets at Braehead. I think concern now moves to the remaining outdoor shops there - Ellis Brigham, Tog 24, Trespass and evan Evans. Whilst the relationship with the slope was never totally symbiotic the point of them being there is considerably diminished if there is no slope. If they go the lack of footfall will impact the food outlets too.

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Go karting is going to replace the snow slope according to someone I spoke to that works in there, the place certainly seems to be thriving without the slope. A real shame it's going to be lost forever. As it's still currently snow I wonder if the high viz/hard hat/ladder trick would work for one last ski before they melt it? Anyone game?

snow reports

You know it makes sense.

Any of the fridges consistently able make £? Esp. given current energy price nightmare... Only Hemel?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Talks have been held with the Renfrew MP Gavin Newlands with the aim to take it into public ownership. He is going to speak to the sports minister.

A snowHead

Putting public money into a loss making enterprise servicing an elitist sport? Not sure that will fly.

A snowHead

Whilst I would dearly like to see the slope reopen for many reasons. I think that @ster is more than right. Compared to hospital waiting lists, falling school standards etc etc reopening the slope is not going to feature in any government’s priorities. MSPs will however be obliged to go through the motions.
What we need is a well heeled benefactor. Unfortunately, I once again failed to win the lottery last night, but I will try again at the weekend.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

The carbon footprint of the place I would have thought would make Scottish Gov support impossible, its all net zero, drive to net zero for any public money spending at the moment

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Many thanks to the MK massif - had forgotten about that one.

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@haggishunter, but that wasn't just for skiing, it was for all those millions of tourists who wanted to go to the top, be stuck in the top station not allowed outside, then taken back down. wink

And wasn’t it supposed to make ££££. All that extra cost kind of snuck up on those innocents.

After all it is free

Apparently the original business case for Snow Factor at Braehead was as loss leader for the retail portion of the business.
Funnily enough when they sold the ski slope off (to the same folk that owned Ice Factor) then it became un-viable.

Although the official press release blames rising cost of electricity I think that is one small part of the story.
Clearly Xscape wasn't (in later years) run to its full potential.
On the rare occasions I went to Braehead the place always seemed to be empty - particularly at the end.
Covid was probably the final nail in coffin for a business already struggling.
They I cant help but wonder if more energetic management might have been able to keep the place going.

Seems a shame to demolish what was a decent facility.
However in short term that is perhaps the easiest / cheapest option.

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When the business originally opened it was run and owned by the same folk who owned and operated MK and Castleford (anyone remember P Y Jerbeau of Disneyland Paris who was originally nominally in charge?) It was plausibly said that Castleford had an income of 2/3 of MK and Braehead 2/3 of Castleford. Indeed I remember being invited to a meeting when those figures were set out. Braehead always suffered from the twin problems of having a smaller and less affluent catchment area and ironically competition from the Scottish ski areas (and other adventure sport opportunities).
When the Smith led management took over they initially enjoyed some success in reducing costs and boosting income. Not all of which were necessarily welcomed by the workforce, although in the initial phase wage rates and conditions actually improved. The management team were seen as successful and consequently acted as consultants to other similar proposed and existing indoor slopes. Then it all started to go wrong. Clearly Covid and fuel prices accelerated that process, but the slope never managed to cover its costs in the summer months and the surplus making months gradually reduced to the point that we were only opening 5 days a week in the autumn in order to try and minimise losses.
To my knowledge the slope did receive financial support from Scottish Enterprise (nothing like the interventions from HIE at Cairngorm) to improve a rather ill fated computer booking system, which ultimately had to be dumped.
I was at EB at Braehead earlier today, which was empty and the staff fatalistic, but hopeful the shop might move to a more central Glasgow location.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Running a ski slope... never easy; got to admire those able to make money.

snow reports

Hi @stephap,

As a Director at Snozone, I saw your recent comments about our Milton Keynes venue and wanted to reply as we’re always interested to have a conversation on any matters our guests raise.

As acknowledged by others here, the successful operation of indoor real snow resorts is challenging, the operational running costs are very high, notably the rent we pay to our landlord, service charges and of course, utility bills. We also pay our teams far above the minimum wage. Yes we have annually grown our profits since 2012 (excluding the COVID year of 2020), but we’ve also continuously reinvested these profits back into the business, the majority of the spend being at Milton Keynes given the structure of the venue within which we operate.

The MK Snozone was built in 1999 and there have been issues with the fabric of the Xscape building in which we’re based. The Xscape building is owned by Land Securities PLC- we don’t own it, but are a tenant within it, and like many large leisure facilities built around that time, it’s not without fault! A key challenge at Milton Keynes, given how it was built, has been the total insulation of the external shell of the slope which at times has resulted in variable snow quality, which we’re constantly monitoring and working hard to rectify when the issue arises.

In 2017 we invested £1m in two new chiller units; since 2020, we’ve invested a further £1m to refit our 12 blast coolers and are in the third year of this four year refit programme. In 2022 we installed new snow making equipment as well as working on upgraded insulation. We also switched to an ammonia based cooling plant system to deliver efficiencies.
We source all our electricity from 100% renewable supplies (wind and solar).

We care passionately about what we do, and despite perceptions, our management team do have decades of experience within our industry. More importantly though we wouldn’t be able to do what we do without you, the Snowsports community. We are currently in the process of having a complete overhaul of our freestyle at Milton Keynes, bringing back a few familiar faces to oversee this reboot.

I would gladly welcome you, and others on here too, to meet myself and our General Managers at one of our venues. Please do contact me at (see below post).

@Kyle_Snow, many thanks for the reply, information and credit to you for engaging in the chat.

You know it makes sense.

@Kyle_Snow, Welcome to snowHeads and for an excellent first post.
I might just caution you about posting your email on an open forum however as it may get harvested by bots. Better to use the direct messaging facility within the site wink

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

[quote="Kyle_Snow"]Hi @stephap,

As a Director at Snozone, I saw your recent comments about our Milton Keynes venue and wanted to reply as we’re always interested to have a conversation on any matters our guests raise.

As acknowledged by others here, the successful operation of indoor real snow resorts is challenging, the operational running costs are very high, notably the rent we pay to our landlord, service charges and of course, utility bills. We also pay our teams far above the minimum wage. Yes we have annually grown our profits since 2012 (excluding the COVID year of 2020), but we’ve also continuously reinvested these profits back into the business, the majority of the spend being at Milton Keynes given the structure of the venue within which we operate.

The MK Snozone was built in 1999 and there have been issues with the fabric of the Xscape building in which we’re based. The Xscape building is owned by Land Securities PLC- we don’t own it, but are a tenant within it, and like many large leisure facilities built around that time, it’s not without fault! A key challenge at Milton Keynes, given how it was built, has been the total insulation of the external shell of the slope which at times has resulted in variable snow quality, which we’re constantly monitoring and working hard to rectify when the issue arises.

In 2017 we invested £1m in two new chiller units; since 2020, we’ve invested a further £1m to refit our 12 blast coolers and are in the third year of this four year refit programme. In 2022 we installed new snow making equipment as well as working on upgraded insulation. We also switched to an ammonia based cooling plant system to deliver efficiencies.
We source all our electricity from 100% renewable supplies (wind and solar).

We care passionately about what we do, and despite perceptions, our management team do have decades of experience within our industry. More importantly though we wouldn’t be able to do what we do without you, the Snowsports community. We are currently in the process of having a complete overhaul of our freestyle at Milton Keynes, bringing back a few familiar faces to oversee this reboot.

I would gladly welcome you, and others on here too, to meet myself and our General Managers at one of our venues. Please do contact me at Ky:)e.be:) Smile

@snozoneuk.com. (Please note, Smile

= l. Thanks for the heads up snowheid)

A snowHead

@Kyle_Snow, hi Kyle, welcome to snowheads

I’ve been a regular at sz MK for about 6 years. We aren’t strangers, you will know me when you see me, my username doesn’t exactly make me anonymous either.

I visit sz at least 3x per week. Skiing is a huge part of my life and no one would be more heartbroken than me if sz went the same way as Glasgow. I really love the place. The slope, in my view, is the best in the UK but the overall experience is too often disappointing.

If you want to change perceptions and engage with the snowsports community, regulars and staff (some of whom are a real asset) then that would be most welcome. We are all united in our love of the sport and want our facilities in the UK to thrive.

I am very happy to spend time with you talking through the customer experience and having an open and honest conversation if it would lead to some positive changes.

It could be that I’m in at the wrong times but I’ve never seen you out on the slope. I invite you to ski with me too and show you my perspective.

A snowHead

Hi Stephap

Thanks for the response and welcome!

Yes let's meet. I think it best to include our venue General Manager for the meeting where he can talk through upcoming plans and of course, listen to your valuable feedback.

We're confident that our business is in a strong position but also grounded, in that we're constantly looking for opportunities to improve. I do hope that you can take some confidence from the investment areas that I previously mentioned. Please drop me a note with a suitable time to talk this week, you'll find my email above.

Some time on the snow slope together makes sense too, lets schedule that in.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Thanks again!

Kyle

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@Kyle_Snow, the way this thread has/is going is making me feel rather hopeful/happy. Well done all. Keep up the good work on both sides. Nice one Stephap Very Happy

.

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[b]@stephap[
, Iam a regular visitor to MK not as much as you 4 times a month work other commitments allowing.
I agree there are quite a few things that need looking at, such as the state of the lift track, lifts stopping because of lack of maintenance.
This was mentioned to me by one of the staff saying this is an ongoing problem.Why not remove the problem lift poles and replace them when they get time.
This would also take the electrical load off resulting in lower electric bills.
Unfortunately pre-emptive maintenance these days across the whole of corporate Britain is a shambles not the money available and the problem comes back to bite them due to looking at short term vision.
This is symptomatic of Britain at Executive level wether its Business or Politics, the level of competence is sadly lacking

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@Kyle_Snow, @stephap,
This thread looks like going well keep up the good work on both sides, unfortunately running costs play a major facter, but as I implied in my post.
People at the top prioritise what looks good for the image and very often put in the cheapest equipment just to get them out of a problem, not thinking of potential problems due to ill thought out solutions.

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@Kyle_Snow, @stephap,
This thread looks like going well keep up the good work on both sides, unfortunately running costs play a major facter, but as I implied in my post.
People at the top prioritise what looks good for the image and very often put in the cheapest equipment just to get them out of a problem, not thinking of potential problems due to ill thought out solutions.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Hi Forst

Thanks for your comments. I'm delighted that you're a regular guest at Snozone Milton Keynes.

Please allow me to extend the same welcome as I provided to @stephap, we'd be happy to meet you at the venue and discuss your comments and feedback. Perhaps we can take you through the planned preventative maintenance (ppm) that our team work tirelessly through.

Whilst consumable costs are indeed moving in one direction, we're fortunate to have decades of experience across our three successful venues and naturally - the best suppliers are keen to work with one of the biggest European operators. This enables us source the correct equipment for the task at hand. I can safely say that Snozone have no reason or desire to reduce costs, where the guest experience may be impacted. It's much more sensible to grow our business through other means.

Naturally, such popular destinations with significant footfall have a number of operational challenges, not all can be planned for and mitigated but we learn every day and of course, the experience helps.

I'm keen to discuss your feedback at venue so please do send me your availability?

Thanks again

Kyle

After all it is free

@Kyle_Snow,

@Kyle_Snow,

I’ve sent you an email.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

@stephap, @kyle_Snow
My previous posts looks like I was a bit negative,and gave the immpression of being just a grumpy old git,I feel frustrated like a lot of people that things, there is always somebody else to blame.
Life is a grey area where things are very often not straight forward.But the buck stops at the very top and accountability is.
I will say no more on the subject.

Help!!

Snow Factor - Demolition

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